Transfer rumours

[TomTom92]

15 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

I remember when we were all so relieved when David Clowes finally saved us from extinction and we were universally grateful.

It must never happen again people cried.

Then some said, within a short while people will forget, and demand that things are done immediately, and why aren’t we doing this and that.

And here you are.

In all fairness there's a difference between Mad Mel and wanting us to take a couple of gambles that maybe aren't within budget.

[DCFC1388]

2 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Or maybe we met them but then realised we didn’t really like them, a bit like a first date 🤔

No that cant be true, i thought the reason players didnt sign for us is because Warne isnt a pull, doesnt develop players or our competitive budget isnt actually competitive. It cant be down to other factors like you mention.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

No that cant be true, i thought the reason players didnt sign for us is because Warne isnt a pull, doesnt develop players or our competitive budget isnt actually competitive. It cant be down to other factors like you mention.

Yeah it can be true, like when you turn up on a blind date and actually see the person in the flesh. Nothing to do with money at all. 😄

Edited August 22 by RoyMac5

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

No that cant be true, i thought the reason players didnt sign for us is because Warne isnt a pull, doesnt develop players or our competitive budget isnt actually competitive. It cant be down to other factors like you mention.

If we're meeting players and we don't like them then maybe we need to find more to meet or if there's that many that we don't like maybe they aren't the issue.

[trappatoni]

It's a big world and somewhere out there is a striker for affordable money who can do well in this division.    

[Wignall12]

12 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

But if we don't sign anybody else do you think we'll finish outside the bottom 6? If not is this really competitive?

I think the good person test has been debated enough on here, and whilst i agree with it on paper, i'm not sure you'll see many clubs that don't have a few rascals in the squad. As a fan i'd rather have a 5* player whose a 1* person that a 3* player whose a 5* person. But what I want is by the by.

As a club we just don;t seem to be very exciting in the market. Even Zetterstrom who should've been exciting has been dampened by a 3 week wait.

There's a difference between a rascal and a rotten apple n'est pas ?

[Chester40]

Looked to see if there was anything new to report..

Nope, aside from the same circular debates, hissy fits and extrapolation of anything and everything to suit the same agendas.

As far as I can make out - we are still after recruiting to the same positions with some of the same players but have plan b's in case. It will likely go the wire and until then it's business as usual and obviously we have a striker (Yates) ready to play Sat.

[Archied]

3 hours ago, rammieib said:

I agree with the above but answer me this - if you’re sending a Derby player on loan somewhere, what’s the most important thing you’re looking for?

For me - I want development of that player. 

Now my own personal opinion, I don’t see PW with his style and approach as a manager who develops players. 

This is why I think it’s so difficult to attract players even once we are competitive financially.

 

The big clubs do development , they loan out players for them to mature into men’s football , see how the do in the cut and thrust of real competition where every point matters and how they stand up in front of 30,000 fans and deal with the pressure, if you think that the big clubs are looking at loans to lower divisions because they are filled with better managers and coaches than they have themselves and are going to do the magic and send them back as polished gems then you really are kidding yourself and using it as some ill thought out reason to beat warne , let alone the fact he is not the clueless PE teacher you portray 

[rammieib]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

The big clubs do development , they loan out players for them to mature into men’s football , see how the do in the cut and thrust of real competition where every point matters and how they stand up in front of 30,000 fans and deal with the pressure, if you think that the big clubs are looking at loans to lower divisions because they are filled with better managers and coaches than they have themselves and are going to do the magic and send them back as polished gems then you really are kidding yourself and using it as some ill thought out reason to beat warne , let alone the fact he is not the clueless PE teacher you portray 

Then we agree to disagree. Players are sent out to develop, mature and grow by playing senior football. 

As part of that, the leasing club needs to believe they will develop. I’m sorry - but I don’t see PW as a manager who will do that. I don’t see him ever as a manager who will change his style of play which will allow us to adapt to the demands of the Championship where the quality is significantly higher. He’s a limited manager, and this will become apparent for me and others as the season progresses. I hope I’m wrong - I’d be very happy with a season where we finish 12-18th and don’t flirt with danger.

Considering he alone has said that we’ve had 50 plus players come to Moor Farm - Why are we struggling to sign these players if what we offer is so ‘appealing’?

This is why we absolutely need to target foreign markets. The return for your money Ian significantly better. We seem to be hiring off the field people quicker than we sign new players so hopefully the scouting networks will find gems for us. Kenzo and the keeper are good starts, but let’s keep that going.

Having that many off the field people and seeing our alleged targets are Woodrow and Michael Smith is just generally disappointing.

[Animal is a Ram]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. Only you're allowed to make assumptions then. That is the point.

I assumed that the players we missed out on would have been decent because Warne wanted them. Obviously I only *think* that because I'd hope we were in for Championship standard and above players, as Warne stated he was after last season.

Not at all, but I never said you couldn't make any assumption. You should expect them to be challenged if you're going to make them though. The whole point of the forum.

 

[Gaspode]

Anyone got any transfer rumours?

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

The Academy cupboard was stripped bare when we were in Admin. The club had to start from scratch again. We now have Darren Robinson, Dajaune Brown and Cruz Allen all who look like they will be able to make the step up either this or next season.

You mention other Academies. They didn't have its best players sold off in Admin to keep the club alive. They didn't then have to release more young players as we weren't allowed to offer them new contracts. Now, think about what happened and then try to work out why the Academy isn't churning out players on the conveyor belt and we'll only really start to see more players possibly coming on from next season.

DRobinson, Brown and Allen were all at the club when we went into admin.

A large number of academy graduates left either during or after admin - Festy, Buchanan, Ebiowei, Williams and Kellyman. Arguably, Knight and Bird would still be with us now if not for admin (due to dropping to L1). Once you add Cashin, LThompson and DBrown (and Sibley) to that list, we could have had almost half a squad with Championship quality players (a couple being fringe player).

 

Looking on, there are many players I would be looking to get in the first team squad within the next 4 years (obviously some sooner than others)

We could have Evans or JThompson as 3rd choice GKs, but both would benefit massively by having loans out for the next 2 seasons to learn their trade playing in teams where their performances seriously matter. For example, JThompson is a fantastic shot stopper and is very good at playing out from the back, but needs to learn when to go long - he won't be forgiven for passing to an opposition attacker in acres of space.

In defence, I like Cox as an overlapping LCB and I think he'd be perfect in a 3 at the back system. Good in the air, a solid tackler, but also good dribbling out on the ball. I think he had a few injury niggles last season, and is seemingly being managed carefully so far this season. KRobinson, has a Bird-like head on his shoulders. Whilst I don't think he's as physically or technically as good as Cox, a youngsters mentality is just as important. Being capped twice for England U19, they obviously see some potential in him too. At LB, there's Gill, who I hope can make the U21 position his own this season whislt still being a 2nd year scholar. He's a very talented defender, but needs to work on his end product. He'd probably need to become an LCB in a 3 at the back system.

In midfield, Stepien-Iwumene made an impression during pre-season and is arguably the most 'first team ready', but I back a lot of out home grown talent to have a higher ceiling. DRobinson being the closest to the first team (in my opinion being a mid table L2 CM), but Hawkins is another. He's come through as a Bird type DM. I stated last season that he needed to work on his end product, and I think he responded with something like 3 assists and a goal in his next 5 games. He's looked out of place when playing LB, so we need to keep him in the CM position as much as possible. McAndrew could play in any position he wanted as he has a lot of very good attributes. However, he needs to develop an arrogance to his game to match his talent. Settling on a favoured position will allow him to develop his weaknesses too.

Allen seems to be shifted to the wing. He's a very creative player and takes good set pieces. Davidson is another promising winger, but has struggled with injuries for the last 2 seasons.

DBrown is well known at CF by this point. I'd consider him to be a top end L1 starter currnetly (or Championship squad player). I think he'd just missing a bit of self-belief  with couple of goalbeing a catalyst to being a Championship starter. Wheeldon has a fantastic work rate and is versatile (can also play on the wings or AM) - probably end up being a support striker to create space for a striker partner. Ogontulu was used in a rotation with Wheeldon last season, but had a decent G/A return rate. This season, I was to see him bagging 30+ goals/assists and force his way into the U21.

[8Leeds]

1 minute ago, Gaspode said:

Anyone got any transfer rumours?

My mate that’s a Leeds fans claiming we’re signing Cooper who was released by the in the summer. Reckons he’s been training with us. I’ve not trawled through to see if it’s been mentioned here before. 

[Anag Ram]

6 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

Anyone got any transfer rumours?

No but here’s a trans fur for you 

 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

A friend of mine is a coach at an academy (not Derby) and I was having a conversation with him a few weeks back and said when there's an unbelievable player in an academy do you hear about them? Like Bellingham for example. He said no, but he sees and hears things quite locally.

He said to me one player at Derby he's heard a lot about and seen once is Cruz Allen. Apparently we're expecting big things from him and he's meant to be head and shoulders above.

In regards to a striker, obviously we all know that the market is a joke. Yes we could maybe go foreign and see what's out there, but it comes with risks. I think we rate Brown highly and don't want to block his path into the first team and I also think that we will probably be able to get a better striker on loan than one we can afford.

Say we have £1-£2 million to spend. What kind of striker can we get for that? Not a great one I'd imagine.

We also do not know what Yates is like and how he will fit.

Some people seem to have turned their noses up at Woodrow and Smith. But both of those would get in our side over Collins. 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, 8Leeds said:

My mate that’s a Leeds fans claiming we’re signing Cooper who was released by the in the summer. Reckons he’s been training with us. I’ve not trawled through to see if it’s been mentioned here before. 

A few have mentioned she's training with us. We're probably waiting until the end of the window to offer him  contract based on budget remaining and what type of CB we manage to sign.

[MadAmster]

56 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

But if we don't sign anybody else do you think we'll finish outside the bottom 6? If not is this really competitive?

I think the good person test has been debated enough on here, and whilst i agree with it on paper, i'm not sure you'll see many clubs that don't have a few rascals in the squad. As a fan i'd rather have a 5* player whose a 1* person that a 3* player whose a 5* person. But what I want is by the by.

As a club we just don;t seem to be very exciting in the market. Even Zetterstrom who should've been exciting has been dampened by a 3 week wait.

I'm expecting just above the bottom 6 with what we have. Maybe slightly better now we have a huge Swedish international keeper, get the decent striker, CH and CM PW says he wants and we could be 12th to 16th. If we do better than that we will have had a remarkably good season.

We'll know more once the window has shut and any newbies have settled in. 

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Not at all, but I never said you couldn't make any assumption. You should expect them to be challenged if you're going to make them though. The whole point of the forum.

 

Really. Well that's an assumption I would challenge if I could be bothered. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

A friend of mine is a coach at an academy (not Derby) and I was having a conversation with him a few weeks back and said when there's an unbelievable player in an academy do you hear about them? Like Bellingham for example. He said no, but he sees and hears things quite locally.

He said to me one player at Derby he's heard a lot about and seen once is Cruz Allen. Apparently we're expecting big things from him and he's meant to be head and shoulders above.

In regards to a striker, obviously we all know that the market is a joke. Yes we could maybe go foreign and see what's out there, but it comes with risks. I think we rate Brown highly and don't want to block his path into the first team and I also think that we will probably be able to get a better striker on loan than one we can afford.

Say we have £1-£2 million to spend. What kind of striker can we get for that? Not a great one I'd imagine.

We also do not know what Yates is like and how he will fit.

Some people seem to have turned their noses up at Woodrow and Smith. But both of those would get in our side over Collins. 

Allen was linked with clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea and Newcastle towards the end of last season. He had 7 goals and 6 assists in 16 U18 games last season. 3 goals in 612 U21 minutes when stepping up. Still only 17 too. A full season at U21 level followed by a couple of loan, then he should be first team ready. Dealing with the physicality would be his main area to work on.

[MadAmster]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

DRobinson, Brown and Allen were all at the club when we went into admin.

A large number of academy graduates left either during or after admin - Festy, Buchanan, Ebiowei, Williams and Kellyman. Arguably, Knight and Bird would still be with us now if not for admin (due to dropping to L1). Once you add Cashin, LThompson and DBrown (and Sibley) to that list, we could have had almost half a squad with Championship quality players (a couple being fringe player).

 

Looking on, there are many players I would be looking to get in the first team squad within the next 4 years (obviously some sooner than others)

We could have Evans or JThompson as 3rd choice GKs, but both would benefit massively by having loans out for the next 2 seasons to learn their trade playing in teams where their performances seriously matter. For example, JThompson is a fantastic shot stopper and is very good at playing out from the back, but needs to learn when to go long - he won't be forgiven for passing to an opposition attacker in acres of space.

In defence, I like Cox as an overlapping LCB and I think he'd be perfect in a 3 at the back system. Good in the air, a solid tackler, but also good dribbling out on the ball. I think he had a few injury niggles last season, and is seemingly being managed carefully so far this season. KRobinson, has a Bird-like head on his shoulders. Whilst I don't think he's as physically or technically as good as Cox, a youngsters mentality is just as important. Being capped twice for England U19, they obviously see some potential in him too. At LB, there's Gill, who I hope can make the U21 position his own this season whislt still being a 2nd year scholar. He's a very talented defender, but needs to work on his end product. He'd probably need to become an LCB in a 3 at the back system.

In midfield, Stepien-Iwumene made an impression during pre-season and is arguably the most 'first team ready', but I back a lot of out home grown talent to have a higher ceiling. DRobinson being the closest to the first team (in my opinion being a mid table L2 CM), but Hawkins is another. He's come through as a Bird type DM. I stated last season that he needed to work on his end product, and I think he responded with something like 3 assists and a goal in his next 5 games. He's looked out of place when playing LB, so we need to keep him in the CM position as much as possible. McAndrew could play in any position he wanted as he has a lot of very good attributes. However, he needs to develop an arrogance to his game to match his talent. Settling on a favoured position will allow him to develop his weaknesses too.

Allen seems to be shifted to the wing. He's a very creative player and takes good set pieces. Davidson is another promising winger, but has struggled with injuries for the last 2 seasons.

DBrown is well known at CF by this point. I'd consider him to be a top end L1 starter currnetly (or Championship squad player). I think he'd just missing a bit of self-belief  with couple of goalbeing a catalyst to being a Championship starter. Wheeldon has a fantastic work rate and is versatile (can also play on the wings or AM) - probably end up being a support striker to create space for a striker partner. Ogontulu was used in a rotation with Wheeldon last season, but had a decent G/A return rate. This season, I was to see him bagging 30+ goals/assists and force his way into the U21.

Thanks for the detail on the Academy, much appreciated. Hopefully the two posts together will put @Matchday Fred's mind at rest over the usefullnes of the Academy.