Paul Warne

[Caerphilly Ram]

29 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

The crazy thing is, I fully regard you as pro-Warne. I know you're not and it's interesting thinking about it now that your sheer common sense stands at such odds with the rhetoric of the 'Warne Out' brigade that it makes you seem directly opposed to them... 

When I think about it, there's very few posters I would say are out and out 'pro-Warne', it's almost like the moderates have been radicalised into backing the manager more than they feel naturally, because of the ridiculous amount of negativity from the other side?

I think that’s what happens with regards to people categorising my stance, I’ve regularly looked to explain I’m more pro-patience than pro-Warne per se. I agree with those concerns around youth development that others voice, I don’t think he’s as adaptable tactically as he could/should be (often too slow to react to opponents tweaking things tactically, especially last season) and I spend pretty much every match thread crying out for subs.

Conversely I don’t think his signings have been all bad, I like that we score lots of goals more than we don’t, I like that we’re at the business end of the table with the chance to be promoted, I like that we’re a bit more athletic and robust cause I felt like we spent years being steamrollered by teams who had that in them when we were lacking it, I like that we win away etc.

As I say, sat on the fence of “he’s the manager for now, some of what he does I like, some of it annoys me, but I can accept it until such point that I can’t or it changes”. But yeah, people have and do identify me with an extreme I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Edited February 14 by Caerphilly Ram

[Curtains]

Thanks David 

[YorkshireRam]

17 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I think that’s what happens with regards to people categorising my stance, I’ve regularly looked to explain I’m more pro-patience than pro-Warne per se. I agree with those concerns around youth development that others voice, I don’t think he’s as adaptable tactically as he can be (often too slow to react to opponents tweaking things tactically, especially last season) and I spend pretty much every match thread crying out for subs.

Conversely I don’t think his signings have been all bad, I like that we score lots of goals more than we don’t, I like that we’re at the business end of the table with the chance to be promoted, I like that we’re a bit more athletic and robust cause I felt like we spent years being steamrollered by teams who had that in them when we were lacking it, I like that we win away etc.

As I say, sat on the fence of “he’s the manager for now, some of what he does I like, some of it annoys me, but I can accept it until such point that I can’t or it changes”. But yeah, people have and do identify me with an extreme I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Yeah sorry didn't mean to add to the dialogue pigeonholing you, just more of an example of how nuance can get lost when it becomes a case of people taking sides. I'm guilty myself, I've definitely defended Warne at times more than I feel he deserves, simply because I disagree with the extremity of criticism being levelled at him. I got very similar about Cocu as well, the issue there being the doubters ended up being correct. I try and use that as perspective for how even if the criticism is OTT at the time, in the long-run there may be validity in there. 

23 minutes ago, nottingram said:

You could copy and paste this almost word for word the other way about any number of different posters. It depends on your perspective. 

As in some may be more negative in response to some being overly positive/defensive about Warne? That's interesting if true, but does further show disagreement often just entrenches people in their existing opinion, rather than serve as a constructive dialogue that leads to more moderate stances on all sides. 

[Returning ram]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

You can get away with it at League One level because the majority of the opposition lack the quality and imagination to break down teams despite having the majority of the ball.

It would never work at Championship level as Warne has shown in the last due to the vast step up in quality.

We will get promoted this season I’m convinced.

But then we must thank Warne for his services and replace him. Keep him and next season will be a disaster.

It would be like some team tipped for relegation, soaking up the pressure and just hitting teams on the break, winning the PL.

Never going to happen.

[Caerphilly Ram]

3 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Yeah sorry didn't mean to add to the dialogue pigeonholing you, just more of an example of how nuance can get lost when it becomes a case of people taking sides. I'm guilty myself, I've definitely defended Warne at times more than I feel he deserves, simply because I disagree with the extremity of criticism being levelled at him. I got very similar about Cocu as well, the issue there being the doubters ended up being correct. I try and use that as perspective for how even if the criticism is OTT at the time, in the long-run there may be validity in there. 

As in some may be more negative in response to some being overly positive/defensive about Warne? That's interesting if true, but does further show disagreement often just entrenches people in their existing opinion, rather than serve as a constructive dialogue that leads to more moderate stances on all sides. 

No need to say sorry, I get it. And I think similar to yourself the reason that preconception exists is because I have defended things or called for patience in the past.

There are some well-reasoned arguments and observations about Warne from a number of posters that I understand and recognise even if I don’t share them, sometimes simply down to a personal stance of living in the moment as much as I can. And there are some examples of people from both sides (and I’ve no doubt been guilty of it too) of “point scoring” and gloating etc. The stuff I don’t get (and it is out there) is the more personal and reductive stuff about Warne and his methods, but I’ve accepted that that’s how some people see if and choose to express it so for the most part try and leave them to it. That’s their view, it’s not mine, ah well 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

The challenge of this forum as a written medium is that the allowance and consideration of nuance is sometimes missed both intentionally or not. If we were all sat in a massive DCFC branded pub having the same conversations it would maybe be less divisive, after all, we’re all Derby right?…..until someone has one too many medium strength lagers and mentions the why wall of course 🤣

 

[DRBee]

8 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Our problem is that our home fans - absolutely rightly - would not be happy with 30% possession at home in a third division game

They would be quite happy with  3 quality goals and a clean sheet

[littleover ram]

It’s odd, we’re second top scorers in the league, joint fewest goals conceded, most away wins, in the automatic places yet it doesn’t feel like we’ve played well all season nor is there much optimism 

Edited February 14 by littleover ram

[RoyMac5]

33 minutes ago, littleover ram said:

It’s odd, we’re second top scorers in the league, joint fewest goals conceded, most away wins, in the automatic places yet it doesn’t feel like we’ve played well all season nor is there much optimism 

Shows how ordinary this league is and how good our individual players are. #DontgoMaxToolate:(

Edited February 14 by RoyMac5

[Bris Vegas]

6 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I still can't believe people are saying this. Whatever any of us may think of his ability to manage a team in the Championship (remember, past achievements - either good or bad - is no guarantee of what will happen in the future) whether you like it or not I'd be truly stunned if PW was sacked after getting us promoted.

Why can’t you believe it?

Next season in the Championship the odds will be stacked against us. Unlike in League One, we won’t have the best players and we won’t have the biggest budget.

Therefore we will need good coaching to succeed. Warne isn’t a good coach.

You only have to look at the top sides in the Championship currently. They are all the best footballing sides, the ones who dominate the ball.

Rotherham, Huddersfield, Sheff Wed, Millwall and Birmingham are the five teams with the lowest possession in the Championship. They make up five of the bottom seven. QPR (16th) and Stoke (12th) are the others.

The top five are Leicester, Southampton, Leeds, Sunderland and Hull - teams who make up the top 8.

Where do you think we will be under Warne averaging 40-45% possession per game?

[Ghost of Clough]

17 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why can’t you believe it?

Next season in the Championship the odds will be stacked against us. Unlike in League One, we won’t have the best players and we won’t have the biggest budget.

Therefore we will need good coaching to succeed. Warne isn’t a good coach.

You only have to look at the top sides in the Championship currently. They are all the best footballing sides, the ones who dominate the ball.

Rotherham, Huddersfield, Sheff Wed, Millwall and Birmingham are the five teams with the lowest possession in the Championship. They make up five of the bottom seven. QPR (16th) and Stoke (12th) are the others.

The top five are Leicester, Southampton, Leeds, Sunderland and Hull - teams who make up the top 8.

Where do you think we will be under Warne averaging 40-45% possession per game?

Norwich, Preston, Bristol City all have less than 50% possession and are top half.

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, littleover ram said:

It’s odd, we’re second top scorers in the league, joint fewest goals conceded, most away wins, in the automatic places yet it doesn’t feel like we’ve played well all season nor is there much optimism 

All done by looking cumbersome generally - in terms of scoring goals NML seems to be the one who makes things happen and without him we would be halfway in my opinion 

[Tamworthram]

19 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why can’t you believe it?

Next season in the Championship the odds will be stacked against us. Unlike in League One, we won’t have the best players and we won’t have the biggest budget.

Therefore we will need good coaching to succeed. Warne isn’t a good coach.

You only have to look at the top sides in the Championship currently. They are all the best footballing sides, the ones who dominate the ball.

Rotherham, Huddersfield, Sheff Wed, Millwall and Birmingham are the five teams with the lowest possession in the Championship. They make up five of the bottom seven. QPR (16th) and Stoke (12th) are the others.

The top five are Leicester, Southampton, Leeds, Sunderland and Hull - teams who make up the top 8.

Where do you think we will be under Warne averaging 40-45% possession per game?

I understand your concerns and thinking but have you ever known a manager get sacked (other than for non football related issues) as soon as he gets him team promoted (apart from Darren Moore and that was an insane decision)?

Whatever you might think of his abilities I reckon DC, along with a lot of other people, will think he has earned, and deserves, the right to give it a go in the Championship. 

Regarding the top teams in the Championship, you can exclude Leicester, Leeds and Southampton from any stats. As usual, most teams relegated from the Prem have an unfair advantage. 

I have no idea how we'll fair in the Championship (if we go up) but I think DC is a man of some integrity that will keep the manager he gave a long term contract to on unless things do go belly up very quickly.

Sorry, but whatever you, or any other anti Warne supporters think or want, I can't see DC sacking him in the summer if he gets us promoted. That's why I would be stunned, not because of what any of us on this forum think will happen.

[Ghost of Clough]

16 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I understand your concerns and thinking but have you ever known a manager get sacked (other than for non football related issues) as soon as he gets him team promoted (apart from Darren Moore and that was an insane decision)?

Whatever you might think of his abilities I reckon DC, along with a lot of other people, will think he has earned, and deserves, the right to give it a go in the Championship. 

Regarding the top teams in the Championship, you can exclude Leicester, Leeds and Southampton from any stats. As usual, most teams relegated from the Prem have an unfair advantage. 

I have no idea how we'll fair in the Championship (if we go up) but I think DC is a man of some integrity that will keep the manager he gave a long term contract to on unless things do go belly up very quickly.

Sorry, but whatever you, or any other anti Warne supporters think or want, I can't see DC sacking him in the summer if he gets us promoted. That's why I would be stunned, not because of what any of us on this forum think will happen.

Sacking a manager who gives us promotion would counter "stability, integrity, progress". Upon promotion, the manager will be given a chance to prove themselves.

[europia]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Sacking a manager who gives us promotion would counter "stability, integrity, progress". Upon promotion, the manager will be given a chance to prove themselves.

Yes Warney will definitely be manager/head coach next season, which ever division we are in. If it is the ch'ship there are going be some tough times. It'll have to be a case of facing one challenge at a time. Primary objective, accrue more than 11 points  🙏

Edited February 14 by europia

[Chris_Martin]

11 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Our problem is that our home fans - absolutely rightly - would not be happy with 30% possession at home in a third division game

 

2 hours ago, DRBee said:

They would be quite happy with  3 quality goals and a clean sheet

 

Lets be honest, the clean sheet was a touch fortunate. They did hit the post and accumulated 1xg to our 1.2xg, as well as having more shots.

The 3 goals were good quality, but the problem is that there is just no pattern of play to either our attacking or defending. We just completely rely on moments of brilliance from a NML or Bird for example. It's identical in that regard to Didzy last season. We are basically the man utd version of league one. No identity, no pattern of play, fairly boring to watch, heavily reliant on moments from individuals, and just getting enough results to keep us near the top.  

[Mick Brolly]

25 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

 

 

Lets be honest, the clean sheet was a touch fortunate. They did hit the post and accumulated 1xg to our 1.2xg, as well as having more shots.

The 3 goals were good quality, but the problem is that there is just no pattern of play to either our attacking or defending. We just completely rely on moments of brilliance from a NML or Bird for example. It's identical in that regard to Didzy last season. We are basically the man utd version of league one. No identity, no pattern of play, fairly boring to watch, heavily reliant on moments from individuals, and just getting enough results to keep us near the top.  

Like that moment of individual brilliance from Collins against Cheltenham.

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Norwich, Preston, Bristol City all have less than 50% possession and are top half.

Preston and Bristol City both sacked previous managers for playing pragmatic defensive football and went on to hire managers who favor possession-based football. Norwich still have parachute payments and have decent players, while a number of their fans want Wagner out.

It’s not a case that you can’t succeed with lesser possession. Derby are proof of that in League One as we are 11th in that category.

Warne can get away with it in League One as we simply have better players than the rest and the opposition standards are so much lower. 

In League One we are 11th for possession, 8th for shots per game, 11th for pass accuracy and 6th for chances created. Yet we are 2nd in the league, which is a clear indication that our extra quality is seeing us over the line.

That won’t be the case in the league above.

[Chris_Martin]

11 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

Like that moment of individual brilliance from Collins against Cheltenham.

yeah sure

[FKANorwichExile]

Regardless of opinions, stats or feelings surely we can all agree that he is the best manager called Paul Warne who is currently at the club 🤷‍♂️

[Crewton]

32 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Preston and Bristol City both sacked previous managers for playing pragmatic defensive football and went on to hire managers who favor possession-based football. Norwich still have parachute payments and have decent players, while a number of their fans want Wagner out.

It’s not a case that you can’t succeed with lesser possession. Derby are proof of that in League One as we are 11th in that category.

Warne can get away with it in League One as we simply have better players than the rest and the opposition standards are so much lower. 

In League One we are 11th for possession, 8th for shots per game, 11th for pass accuracy and 6th for chances created. Yet we are 2nd in the league, which is a clear indication that our extra quality is seeing us over the line.

That won’t be the case in the league above.

Ah... about that....you might want to read this thread ⬇️https://www.otib.co.uk/topic/224125-change-in-style/