Paul Warne

[jimtastic56]

8 hours ago, Allen said:

Having a home crowd who fully back the team through thick and thin is vital this season. A rocking and raucous PP must be very intimidating for opponents. Our home record of late has been amazing and we need to do everything we can to ensure this continues.

Getting PP rocking is easy when you are 3-0 up .The Test of a good following is when you are 2-0 down at home . We know some will turn on Warne , but the the majority will have to hold their nerve . 

[Ghost of Clough]

43 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Does this show that Warne prefers athleticism over skill? To me it shows he is acting through necessity over preference. If you have a limited budget, the pool of players typically available (particularly on the domestic market) tend to have physical strengths rather than technical strengths.

If you are operating at the top of League 1 or the lower reaches of the Championship, it stands to reason genuinely good technical footballers are hard to come by, whether that’s due to cost or due to the scarcity of them. Technically good players tend to find their way to a higher level and tend to come with a premium that clubs in our position can seldom afford.

With modern football as it is, the domestic game produces more and more players with those physical attributes you highlighted (pace, power, stamina, aerial presence) to prepare for what are largely fast, intense and physical games, so maybe even if Warne prefers skill, maybe he knows it would be disadvantageous to have a team full of Max Birds getting bullied and overrun.

Most teams at this level and below model themselves on having strong and dominant defences and athletic midfields so there is a huge element of having to fight fire with fire and match up well, hence why we have signed the likes of Nyambe, Nelson, Phillips, Adams and Ozoh to help us compete.

The higher up the pyramid you go, the more you see players with a blend of skill and physicality and the occasional player who is purely technical and can be a difference maker.

I imagine if we got to the PL with Warne and he had a budget of £150 million, he would do what is necessary to compete. If that meant signing technical players, I think he would go down that route. I don’t think there is a fixation over having players who are the biggest or the fastest or the strongest. It’s just reacting to the demands of modern football. 

It absolutely does show that. The lower down the leagues you go, the harder it is to get the 'ideal' players. As such, you make compromises and focus on what's most important - in Warne's case, that's athleticism. Afterall, if you want a team to play with a high press you don't want a 35 year old Rooney leading the line or Huddlestone in midfield.

[RodleyRam]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Adams was a Warne signing to add pace and energy to our midfield - eventually knocking Hourihane out of the 11.

Goudmijn's best attribute is breaking forward on the ball. Whilst not an 'athlete' in the sense of pace or power, his dribbling on the ball from midfield is something we've lacked since Knight left as is an attribute Warne values.

Osborn has always been regarded as a hard working player with a good engine. Sheff Utd fans stated he lacks technical ability.

All of our other permanent signings under Warne have at least one 'athletic' element to their game, some having multiple.

Blackett-Taylor is a quick winger, with an ability to carry to ball forward.

Ward, Elder and Wilson are all very fit full/wing backs, Wilson having a bit of pace and good at dribbling forward, whilst Elder wins a lot in the air of a LB. Nyambe is a strong and quick full back.

Fornah is a CM who won a lot in the air, covered a lot of ground and drove forward on the ball.

Bradley is dominant in the air. Nelson is good in the air and drives forward out of defence on the ball.

Washington is/was a pacy/numble forward who drives forward on the ball and likes to break behind CBs. Waghorn was a hard working forward who won the ball back high up the pitch and offered a physical presence up front.

Surely all footballers bar Jan Molby have at least one 'athletic quality'?

I mean, Will Hughes loved a tackle, Chris Martin was a wardrobe, Bryson had remarkable stamina etc. 

Footballers are elite athletes after all. 

Warne's stated admiration for good athletes is just good sense in the modern game isn't it? I never see that at the expense of skill. We haven't signed a single out and out untalented Vinnie Jones have we?

You could argue that all the recruits have at least one technical competency.

Adams can strike a ball, Ozoh, whilst being a unit is technically very sound, and Kenzo clearly has exceptional passing ability. 

We need players who complement eachother and are multi-dimensional. It's all about building a balanced side isn't it? 

[jono]

3 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

Getting PP rocking is easy when you are 3-0 up .The Test of a good following is when you are 2-0 down at home . We know some will turn on Warne , but the the majority will have to hold their nerve . 

You’re spot on with that. What I enjoyed about last Saturday was that we were just 1 up in a finely balanced game. The “rocking” made it 3-0 rather than a hard fought 1-0. The points are the same but the goal difference and the boost to self belief was priceless. If we can keep doing that then our world and expectations take a different turning entirely.

[uttoxram75]

The issue causing such division was folk moaning about the manager after 3 league games while the transfer window was still open.

Any manager, not just Paul Warne, deserves a couple of months with a brand new team before we go into meltdown.

[vonwright]

11 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Maybe it is. But how we played under him in league 1, how Rotherham played and how he talks about are pretty consistent with each other. And the words 'it'll look good when he get his players in/better players in' has been used in defence of every pragmatic manager who peddle garbage football and it almost always isn't true. Bristol is a positive step though and I really hope that's the plan.

But that's my whole point. Unless we do something different than what is typical that's where our finances will lead us. We need to find ways of acquiring the talent we need to progress without trying to compete in the same markets as a lot of the division. 

The thing is he just hasn't been doing. The minutes that academy players have gotten before this season under Warne is extremely low even considering the upheaval going into league 1. I'm not suggesting they should have been starting week in, week out but more could and arguably should have been done. 

The thing is if you take that position you'll only ever scratch the surface of what an academy can give you. If you look at most teams who have good through lines of producing their own talent, they are very frequently giving time to players before they are completely ready. Simply put players tend to grow faster the more they are exposed to higher levels with something like actual stakes. This is harsh but the issue with loans is you are often loaning to a worse coaching set up and it's not the same for a player as playing for their club. Loans can have there place but that can't be your primary through line. There are so many times during the course of season you can give academy players minutes if you have the intent without it having minimal impact on your team's success.  

 

That's literally not true, of course it has a cost. All were sold/let go at a price point worse than what we would have got selling in the championship. Whether the cost was worth it or not is a whole different question. But the cost in the short-ish term isn't even the point I'm making, we don't truly know the cost of those decisions at this point. Look at Whittaker for example most people were falling over themselves saying how good a deal it was to get what we did for him in order to fuel some loans for Rooney and now his price tag is somewhere north of 10 million. Making decisions with a short term view is sometimes necessary but they do compound and you frequently end up worse of in the long run if you don't carefully balance it with appropriate planning for the future.

This I wholeheartedly agree with.

 

I agree about how Warne has set us up. But of course this has been effective in League One. Skill levels aren't as high and mistakes are more common. Defensively solid teams with simple but effective attacking strategies can win a lot of games. 

The question for me has always been: is Warne doing this because he's smart and knows it's the best and most cost-effective way of getting out of League One? Or is it all he knows? 

To put it another way: what happens when Warne has the scope to bring in better players? More of the same? Or the same solid defence and direct attacking but with more purpose, fluidity and variety in attack, and fewer hopeful punts? That would be an evolution of his core style rather than a complete change: but I daresay much better to watch, less frustrating, and better suited to this level.

Still early days for me, but there was a lot to like about the Bristol City performance. My worry was always that Warne+Rotherham-resources is pretty well tested: too good for League One, not good enough for the Championship. Now we get to see Warne+slightly better resources. He still might surprise us. 

Edited September 5 by vonwright

[Allen]

2 hours ago, vonwright said:

I agree about how Warne has set us up. But of course this has been effective in League One. Skill levels aren't as high and mistakes are more common. Defensively solid teams with simple but effective attacking strategies can win a lot of games. 

The question for me has always been: is Warne doing this because he's smart and knows it's the best and most cost-effective way of getting out of League One? Or is it all he knows? 

To put it another way: what happens when Warne has the scope to bring in better players? More of the same? Or the same solid defence and direct attacking but with more purpose, fluidity and variety in attack, and fewer hopeful punts? That would be an evolution of his core style rather than a complete change: but I daresay much better to watch, less frustrating, and better suited to this level.

Still early days for me, but there was a lot to like about the Bristol City performance. My worry was always that Warne+Rotherham-resources is pretty well tested: too good for League One, not good enough for the Championship. Now we get to see Warne+slightly better resources. He still might surprise us. 

The way PW spoke about Didzy while he was at the club tells me he fully rates and values talented technical players. Unfortunately, such players normally do not come cheap. Bearing in mind the number of players that had to be brought in on our still relatively limited budget, I feel the recent transfer window was very successful. Hopefully as the number of players that need to be brought in decreases and our budget improves (hopefully), there will be a shift towards bringing in players with greater technical ability. In PW I trust.

[i-Ram]

7 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

The issue causing such division was folk moaning about the manager after 3 league games while the transfer window was still open.

Any manager, not just Paul Warne, deserves a couple of months with a brand new team before we go into meltdown.

You know this is a Football Fans forum don’t you ?  I wouldn’t suggest you do dirty yourself but I should imagine if you log on to a Man U, Chelsea or even Southampton Forum you will find as many negative views about their Managers after 3 games as on here about Warne. I am amazed how many get the vapours about negativity when  it is the same at virtually every Club and on every Football Forum. Fickle fans like to vent. Accept it for what it is. 

[Allen]

27 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

You know this is a Football Fans forum don’t you ?  I wouldn’t suggest you do dirty yourself but I should imagine if you log on to a Man U, Chelsea or even Southampton Forum you will find as many negative views about their Managers after 3 games as on here about Warne. I am amazed how many get the vapours about negativity when  it is the same at virtually every Club and on every Football Forum. Fickle fans like to vent. Accept it for what it is. 

How dare you compare the mighty Rams and our wonderful supporters with the likes of Man U and Chelsea 😁😁?

[Anag Ram]

36 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

You know this is a Football Fans forum don’t you ?  I wouldn’t suggest you do dirty yourself but I should imagine if you log on to a Man U, Chelsea or even Southampton Forum you will find as many negative views about their Managers after 3 games as on here about Warne. I am amazed how many get the vapours about negativity when  it is the same at virtually every Club and on every Football Forum. Fickle fans like to vent. Accept it for what it is. 

Understand your point but it’s the fickleness that rankles. The same people who were slagging off management as we entered administration are now saying we should spend, spend, spend on new players.

Four league games after living it up over our promotion they’re now moaning about the style of play.

Even Clowes is getting criticised.

It just feels a bit like a homeless person being taken in by a family then slagging off the decor. 

[i-Ram]

7 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Understand your point but it’s the fickleness that rankles. The same people who were slagging off management as we entered administration are now saying we should spend, spend, spend on new players.

Four league games after living it up over our promotion they’re now moaning about the style of play.

Even Clowes is getting criticised.

It just feels a bit like a homeless person being taken in by a family then slagging off the decor. 

I don't disagree, I am just saying it will always be and never will change. Posters seeking positivity and unity on a football website would be just as well going outside and howling at the moon. Please note @Inverurie Ram

[Anag Ram]

7 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I don't disagree, I am just saying it will always be and never will change. Posters seeking positivity and unity on a football website would be just as well going outside and howling at the moon. Please note @Inverurie Ram

I think one or two on here certainly have hairy palms.

 

[MadAmster]

As good a victory as the Bristol game was, as I put in my match report, let's not go overboard. A well crafted win but we shouldn't forget that we could have been a goal or 2 behind in the opening 25 minutes. Better sides would have got a goal. There's at least half a dozen sides in this League who would paste us 9 times out of 10 if we allow them 70% possession, much of it in our half, in the opening 20 minutes of a game. We need to find ways of preventing that. That's the challenge PW and the squad have. To be able to play off the front foot, from the off and for much of the game.

[BucksRam]

3 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

I think one or two on here certainly have hairy palms.

 

And how many on here have just checked their own palms...... #secondsignofmadness

[SSD]

Even the grumpy Warne boo boys like myself should admit he has recruited really well and built a Championship squad that should stay up in my opinion. With the counter attacking style, which done well looks fantastic to watch, I can see a number of ball playing possession teams really struggle to get to grips with us when we play at home.

I dislike it when people say "use that as a blueprint" however I would say Bristol City match was a perfect match from our team and management. We definitely need to tighten up away from home but I think he's found a really good formula to compete with the majority of opposition at Pride Park. 

I just pray injuries don't become a problem, particularly up front. Although it could open the opportunities for Brown and many of us want to see a young talent giving it a go.

[Allen]

21 minutes ago, SSD said:

Even the grumpy Warne boo boys like myself should admit he has recruited really well and built a Championship squad that should stay up in my opinion. With the counter attacking style, which done well looks fantastic to watch, I can see a number of ball playing possession teams really struggle to get to grips with us when we play at home.

I dislike it when people say "use that as a blueprint" however I would say Bristol City match was a perfect match from our team and management. We definitely need to tighten up away from home but I think he's found a really good formula to compete with the majority of opposition at Pride Park. 

I just pray injuries don't become a problem, particularly up front. Although it could open the opportunities for Brown and many of us want to see a young talent giving it a go.

I don’t think there’s much better than seeing young players coming through the under age ranks and then flourishing for the firsts. I think we all knew from the moment Will Hughes made his first team debut we had some player on our hands. At 17 he looked well and truly first team ready. I’m not so sure about young Daj and I honestly feel being thrown in at the deep end can damage a player’s confidence and set their career back. I don’t think PW has a problem playing youngsters, Ozoh being the obvious example. Why is he playing? Because PW thinks he’s good enough. Don’t think age comes into it at all.

[MadAmster]

Our next game is against Cardiff who are bottom. They are likely to see parking the bus from the off and hoping to nick a goal on the odd counter as their best way of getting something out of the game. That means we'll have to do the attacking, we'll have to make the play. Have we ever been good at breaking down massed defences?

That's why we might see some changes in the starting XI, despite how good we countered against Brizzle. It will be a different tactical challenge requiring different solutions so it's far from certain that PW won't be making changes.

[Beetle]

I don't think they'll park the bus. They finished mid table last year and have had a difficult start. They'll be coming here to beat us and will be confident they can

[NottsRam]

17 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Our next game is against Cardiff who are bottom. They are likely to see parking the bus from the off and hoping to nick a goal on the odd counter as their best way of getting something out of the game. That means we'll have to do the attacking, we'll have to make the play. Have we ever been good at breaking down massed defences?

That's why we might see some changes in the starting XI, despite how good we countered against Brizzle. It will be a different tactical challenge requiring different solutions so it's far from certain that PW won't be making changes.

My thoughts exactly, however, i do think the team against bristol could work against a more defensive set up which Cardiff are likely to employ.  Especially how we played second half with ozoh higher up the pitch.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

Our next game is against Cardiff who are bottom. They are likely to see parking the bus from the off and hoping to nick a goal on the odd counter as their best way of getting something out of the game. That means we'll have to do the attacking, we'll have to make the play. Have we ever been good at breaking down massed defences?

That's why we might see some changes in the starting XI, despite how good we countered against Brizzle. It will be a different tactical challenge requiring different solutions so it's far from certain that PW won't be making changes.

I really don’t think you can read too much into the league table this early on. I doubt they’ll be seeing themselves as massive under dogs just hoping to nick a goal.