Paul Warne

[hintonsboots]

6 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Down here, that terminology has some delightful/dreadful connotations.....🤭

 

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, jimtastic56 said:

I think all the Warne critics are now eating a large portion of “Humble Pie”. I must admit before Saturday’s game I was beginning to wobble like Paul’s hat . However we are not home safe yet . Injuries to key players would be a problem with a wafer thin squad. Still would have liked to see an out and out C/F come in . But that was not Warne’s fault . 

As a Warne critic, I can assure you I am certainly not eating a large or even small portion of Humble Pie.  A good win, a very good second half performance, but let’s not get too carried away (although that’s not to say don’t enjoy it to the max). Most, if any, Warne critics are going to be changed by one game in isolation. There are still fundamental issues I feel with Warne’s tactical and technical abilities, but I accept his job this season is to consolidate our position in the Championship and I hope he achieves it.

[Jourdan]

Why is it constantly said Warne prefers athleticism over skill?

Across his almost two years in charge, he has relied heavily upon technical and skilled players. Every season with us, there have been technical players at the core of his teams, without whom the team wouldn’t have functioned or prospered.

A similar theme is emerging even now. Goudmijn was one of his marquee signings this summer and starts almost every game, for example.

To my mind, Warne wants to strike a balance so his teams can be competitive, resilient and adaptable in most, if not all in-game situations.

Does he want a team of eleven Ozohs? No. Does he want a team of eleven Goudmijns? Also, no. In both cases, not much success would be found.

Does he want a balanced and competitive team that can win football matches in a variety of ways and rise to the challenge of Championship football? Absolutely.

[Ram-Alf]

11 hours ago, Crewton said:

I feel allot of Warne's critics are like people who would criticise a Christmas Dinner because they don't like Brussel Sprouts. There's no recognition that the 3-bird roast, chestnut stuffing, roast potatoes, pigs in blankets, honey-roasted carrots and parsnips, spiced red cabbage, bread sauce, cranberry and rich giblet gravy was more than acceptable.

PS: dont @ me if I've missed out your favourite ingredient. Subs aren't allowed in this game.

Edit: Missed the bloody stuffing, didn't I!!

And the bloody Yorkshire Pudding 🙄

[Gerry Daly]

16 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Why is it constantly said Warne prefers athleticism over skill?

Across his almost two years in charge, he has relied heavily upon technical and skilled players. Every season with us, there have been technical players at the core of his teams, without whom the team wouldn’t have functioned or prospered.

A similar theme is emerging even now. Goudmijn was one of his marquee signings this summer and starts almost every game, for example.

To my mind, Warne wants to strike a balance so his teams can be competitive, resilient and adaptable in most, if not all in-game situations.

Does he want a team of eleven Ozohs? No. Does he want a team of eleven Goudmijns? Also, no. In both cases, not much success would be found.

Does he want a balanced and competitive team that can win football matches in a variety of ways and rise to the challenge of Championship football? Absolutely.

Yes. The signing of Goudmijn showed very clearly that this idea that Warne would only want John Fashanu style 6'2'' athletes is a load of rubbish. He doesn't play percentage football like Wimbledon. The style is evolving into something that is both better to watch and effective  

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Why is it constantly said Warne prefers athleticism over skill?

Across his almost two years in charge, he has relied heavily upon technical and skilled players. Every season with us, there have been technical players at the core of his teams, without whom the team wouldn’t have functioned or prospered.

A similar theme is emerging even now. Goudmijn was one of his marquee signings this summer and starts almost every game, for example.

To my mind, Warne wants to strike a balance so his teams can be competitive, resilient and adaptable in most, if not all in-game situations.

Does he want a team of eleven Ozohs? No. Does he want a team of eleven Goudmijns? Also, no. In both cases, not much success would be found.

Does he want a balanced and competitive team that can win football matches in a variety of ways and rise to the challenge of Championship football? Absolutely.

Smith, Hourihane and Bird to Ozoh, Adams, Goudmijn is a definite increase in athleticism. Overall, there is more pace, power, and ability to drive forward on the ball.

Or are you claiming the latter 3 are better at neat/intricate passing than the former 3?

For the system Warne wants (intense pressing and quick counters), then athleticism is top of the list for requirements - you need to be fit, quick, strong, and good at dribbling. Jackson and Mendez-Laing being as successful as they are also meet these criteria, whislt Elder and Wilson are the two fittest players at the club.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Ram-Alf said:

And the bloody Yorkshire Pudding 🙄

Not in this house Alf - that's for beef, as is traditional - but they seem to go everywhere these days.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Gerry Daly said:

Yes. The signing of Goudmijn showed very clearly that this idea that Warne would only want John Fashanu style 6'2'' athletes is a load of rubbish. He doesn't play percentage football like Wimbledon. The style is evolving into something that is both better to watch and effective  

Ah yes, that frequently quoted idea that ‘Warne only wants John Fashanu style 6ft 2” athletes’ really bugs me too. Day after day of ignorant John Fashanu garbage coming from @Millenniumramand his mates. Give me Justin Fashanu any day of the week. Much better to watch, and more effective.

[bcnram]

3 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

I think all the Warne critics are now eating a large portion of “Humble Pie”. I must admit before Saturday’s game I was beginning to wobble like Paul’s hat . However we are not home safe yet . Injuries to key players would be a problem with a wafer thin squad. Still would have liked to see an out and out C/F come in . But that was not Warne’s fault . 

That first sentence is just silly. 

[brady1993]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Why is it constantly said Warne prefers athleticism over skill?

Across his almost two years in charge, he has relied heavily upon technical and skilled players. Every season with us, there have been technical players at the core of his teams, without whom the team wouldn’t have functioned or prospered.

A similar theme is emerging even now. Goudmijn was one of his marquee signings this summer and starts almost every game, for example.

To my mind, Warne wants to strike a balance so his teams can be competitive, resilient and adaptable in most, if not all in-game situations.

Does he want a team of eleven Ozohs? No. Does he want a team of eleven Goudmijns? Also, no. In both cases, not much success would be found.

Does he want a balanced and competitive team that can win football matches in a variety of ways and rise to the challenge of Championship football? Absolutely.

I think you might be loosely referring to something I posted a few pages back and I want to make a small distinction. I think Warne often talks like he values athleticism over player skill, like he thinks about a player's athletic qualities first and then other stuff second. There is a lot of evidence for this I can point to in various interviews. But, crucially that doesn't necessarily mean that he's actually laser focused on it when he's building teams. 

I do think with the signings he's made, there is a loose priority on physical qualities. He's almost exclusively signing physically robust, mobile players and there's few signings that I think you can point to that are purely skill players. Goudmijn is a bit of an exception but is still a mobile player, who can handle himself (and will likely get more physically developed with time). I'm not saying that as a criticism especially as for the most part the players signed aren't just athletes. 

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Smith, Hourihane and Bird to Ozoh, Adams, Goudmijn is a definite increase in athleticism. Overall, there is more pace, power, and ability to drive forward on the ball.

Or are you claiming the latter 3 are better at neat/intricate passing than the former 3?

For the system Warne wants (intense pressing and quick counters), then athleticism is top of the list for requirements - you need to be fit, quick, strong, and good at dribbling. Jackson and Mendez-Laing being as successful as they are also meet these criteria, whislt Elder and Wilson are the two fittest players at the club.

Perhaps weirdly though if you replace Adams with Osborn out of out current midfield I do think they would be better at neat/intricate passing if coached for it. Smith and Hourihane I actually think weren't great at that kind of game, both were too static and would often be that bit slow at releasing the ball in short exchanges. I suspect that Ozoh and Osborn would be better than those two. Bird is highly likely the best out of any of that group at that kind of game but I think Goudmijn is close enough to him that as a trio they'd be better.

As simplistic as it sounds I kinda judge them based on how well I think they could slot into our 13/14 or 14/15 teams. 

Excels

Goudmijn

Bird

Thompson

Hourihane played as the most attacking midfielder, the least involved in build up

Does Well

Osborn (may even be the one above)

Ozoh (possibly higher up coached by McClaren, would bring issues though as a sole DM)

Looks Fine

Smith

Struggles

Hourihane in any other role

Adams

 

As an aside as it got brought to mind with the Bristol game, I do wonder when someone is going to finally clock onto playing Bird as the sole DM in a 3 man midfield. My sneaky suspicion is that when that happens with regularity somebody in the prem comes in for him. Feel like he's in the Hughes category of had he been born in Spain he'd be having higher career trajectory (or at least a more rapid ascent).

[brady1993]

4 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Yes. The signing of Goudmijn showed very clearly that this idea that Warne would only want John Fashanu style 6'2'' athletes is a load of rubbish. He doesn't play percentage football like Wimbledon. The style is evolving into something that is both better to watch and effective  

I'd argue that in league 1 he was playing pretty text book percentage football in large part. With how I understand it percentage football is essentially definable by:

• Get it forward quickly into the opponent's half through whatever means necessary.
• Having the ball matters less than where the ball is on the pitch
• Get the ball into the opponent's box as quickly and as frequently as you can. It matters far less how it's done and far more the frequency in which you are trying to do it.
• Heavy focus on errors in possession; don't keep the ball so you don't make them (especially in your half), look to force the opponents to.
• Heavy focus on getting and trying to score from set pieces
• Look to physically impose yourself on the opposition, and emphasise winning individual physical contests.

That more or less describes how we played in a lot of games. People often get counterattacking football, longball football, percentage football and defensive football all mixed up. They overlap a lot and overlap with managers using them but there are I think distinctions between them.

But I do agree that on early evidence we are evolving beyond that and the game against Bristol wasn't that. 

As perhaps a strange aside it's a conceptual root behind gegenpressing. Which kinda goes to show that with some tweaks in how you approach a game it can go from ugly to exciting. 

[i-Ram]

4 hours ago, brady1993 said:

I'd argue that in league 1 he was playing pretty text book percentage football in large part. With how I understand it percentage football is essentially definable by:

• Get it forward quickly into the opponent's half through whatever means necessary.
• Having the ball matters less than where the ball is on the pitch
• Get the ball into the opponent's box as quickly and as frequently as you can. It matters far less how it's done and far more the frequency in which you are trying to do it.
• Heavy focus on errors in possession; don't keep the ball so you don't make them (especially in your half), look to force the opponents to.
• Heavy focus on getting and trying to score from set pieces
• Look to physically impose yourself on the opposition, and emphasise winning individual physical contests.

That more or less describes how we played in a lot of games. People often get counterattacking football, longball football, percentage football and defensive football all mixed up. They overlap a lot and overlap with managers using them but there are I think distinctions between them.

But I do agree that on early evidence we are evolving beyond that and the game against Bristol wasn't that. 

As perhaps a strange aside it's a conceptual root behind gegenpressing. Which kinda goes to show that with some tweaks in how you approach a game it can go from ugly to exciting. 

What a fantastic post.

Completely wasted on here though. Pick your camp Brady. Do you want Warne in or out!

[jono]

9 hours ago, i-Ram said:

As a Warne critic, I can assure you I am certainly not eating a large or even small portion of Humble Pie.  A good win, a very good second half performance, but let’s not get too carried away (although that’s not to say don’t enjoy it to the max). Most, if any, Warne critics are going to be changed by one game in isolation. There are still fundamental issues I feel with Warne’s tactical and technical abilities, but I accept his job this season is to consolidate our position in the Championship and I hope he achieves it.

Fair point, but given that none of us have much evidence of what Warne can do with a fair crack of the whip in this league and given our start this season (I’d say unspectacular but certainly ok) .. What do you think would be a reasonable points score + entertainment value after say 10 games ? and if that is achieved would you remain a critic ? 
 

I’m going to become a doubter if we are bottom 4, be disappointed if we are only a couple of places above that. I’d say “comfortable” if we are in the better “teens” / looking to mid table. Happy with anything 10th or better. Entertainment is a bit subjective but if we are scoring goals I’m generally happy. Until last season we have, in my mind, been notable as low scoring, which is not a “prefered profile” for me when supporting my team.

[jono]

9 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

What a fantastic post.

Completely wasted on here though. Pick your camp Brady. Do you want Warne in or out!

Not wasted on me. I like Brady’s analysis. Often, but not always agree. It’s The camp thing winds me up beyond measure. Which is why I get drawn in to daft rows. 🤣 ..

Did I enjoy a particular game ? Did we score ? Was the passing and interplay good to watch in all its styles. Where are we in the table are we going up it or down it ? What has been the result of the last 3/4 games and how did I feel on average after them; is that “average” feeling improving. Have our signings and injuries affected any of the above ? .. Then the killer .. when you hear a post match interview .. did the manager go to the same game as me ? 

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, Crewton said:

Not in this house Alf - that's for beef, as is traditional - but they seem to go everywhere these days.

Back in the day...1960s our mum would cook extra Yorkshire puds on a Sunday, When I'd finished playing football on Chadd park with all the other waifs and strays I'd be back home for tea(5-30ish) my sandwiches were already waiting...4 quarters wrapped under a mothers pride waxed loaf wrapper on a plate with...yes...2 cold Yorkshire puds cut in half with Jam.

Luxury I tell ya ☺️ 

[Allen]

Being an old bugger, I’ve supported the Rams since the Tim Ward era. PW is not the best Derby manager I’ve known (I think that award could go to one man only), but I honestly I feel he is about the best we could hope for at the moment. If you’d told me on the day he was appointed he’d have us promoted within 2 seasons, I would have been extremely happy. I didn’t care how we did it, we just had to get out of the awful League 1 asap.

PW to me is a much more intelligent manager than I think some give him credit for. I really don’t subscribe to the notion that PW only wants pace, power and athleticism. As the season develops, I’m confident he can deliver more aesthetically pleasing football and still get the points to keep us clear of the dreaded drop. Saturday was a great start and hopefully we can build on this in future weeks.

[Wolfie]

Any point scoring between the Warne In & Out camp is weird. We've just had one terrible performance vs Barrow, followed by a fantastic one vs Bristol City.

What will be the longer term trend? Nobody knows. You don't have to be polarised into one camp or the other. It's not black & white.

He deserves credit for the Bristol game (and for our points tally so far, IMO), just as he deserved criticism for the Barrow one.

[Carnero]

2 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Any point scoring between the Warne In & Out camp is weird. We've just had one terrible performance vs Barrow, followed by a fantastic one vs Bristol City.

What will be the longer term trend? Nobody knows. You don't have to be polarised into one camp or the other. It's not black & white.

He deserves credit for the Bristol game (and for our points tally so far, IMO), just as he deserved criticism for the Barrow one.

I'm not sure that there are both "Warne In" and "Warne Out" camps really.

There's certainly a "Warne Out" camp from a handful of one dimensional posters, then there's everybody else who sees both pros and cons with Warne, as there are with most other managers.

Anyone who disagrees with some of the nonsense posted by the "Warne Out" camp is automatically thrown into the "Warne In" camp rather than just being somebody that disagrees with nonsense!

Nonsense!

The microwave is for soup and drying socks!

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 minutes ago, Allen said:

Being an old bugger, I’ve supported the Rams since the Tim Ward era. PW is not the best Derby manager I’ve known (I think that award could go to one man only), but I honestly I feel he is about the best we could hope for at the moment. If you’d told me on the day he was appointed he’d have us promoted within 2 seasons, I would have been extremely happy. I didn’t care how we did it, we just had to get out of the awful League 1 asap.

PW to me is a much more intelligent manager than I think some give him credit for. I really don’t subscribe to the notion that PW only wants pace, power and athleticism. As the season develops, I’m confident he can deliver more aesthetically pleasing football and still get the points to keep us clear of the dreaded drop. Saturday was a great start and hopefully we can build on this in future weeks.

I enjoyed PWs analysis of where things were going a bit wrong early on in the game and how he fixed it.

He's also said recently he likes playing with 2 10s so perhaps buying a big lump isn't such a high priority as I had thought.