Stephen Pearce on Radio Derby 6pm Tuesday

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

21 minutes ago, KBB said:

Why would it be put out multiple times in the public domain if there isn't any truth in it?

For years, even before administration, the club has been crying out to be run sustainably and fornus to cut our cloth accordingly. The catastrophic events leading to administration forced that upon us.

The days of big money signings, stupid wages, bloated squads and contracts weighing us down are long gone. Maybe I am on my own in this but I do not miss this element for one minute and hope we will create a club to be proud of in the knowledge thst players arent here for a paycheck.

Is that where he's gone. Sounds like we have more than one as well.  

[StarterForTen]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

45% player wages is still a significant operating loss each season - £5m minimum, more likely around thr £7.5m mark

Would that suggest the club spends circa £17m a year on costs other than player wages?

[Simmo’s left foot]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

45% player wages is still a significant operating loss each season - £5m minimum, more likely around thr £7.5m mark

How do you work that out? 

[IslandExile]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68254190

[Tyler Durden]

"The wage bill is now running at about 45% of our revenues and I believe we've put a squad together that is there to compete with other clubs in this division and we'll continue to progress that moving forwards - but in a sustainable manner."

Bit different to the quote Clowes made about our wage bill.

[silverback]

23 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

He has also mentioned that the EFL are looking towards having a clear % of turnover limit for all  clubs. That's the way football needs to be going forward, so no more unaffordable contracts and c

I like the sound of this, with our support we should be at least lower prem /upper ccc or am I missing something?

How Bournemouth are sustainable in the prem  beats me 😵‍💫

[Tombo]

I don't think he's a bad guy, I think he's just spineless. The interview just cemented that further.

If he didn't like what he was told to do, he could have stood up for himself and said no. And furthermore then leave with some professional reputation in tact. He had a good name for himself at one point, chosen as a Championship representative on the EFL board. He had a way out.

That's not even to mention integrity and morals.

Nobody forced him. One way or another, he messed up big time. He could at least fess up and apologise for not having the grapefruits to try to stop it happening.

Like most politicians, he has no understanding of the responsibility and gravity of his office

[Simmo’s left foot]

2 minutes ago, silverback said:

I like the sound of this, with our support we should be at least lower prem /upper ccc or am I missing something?

How Bournemouth are sustainable in the prem  beats me 😵‍💫

Yes, me too! and Luton Town also. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

7 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

Yes, me too! and Luton Town also. 

They get over 100 million a year in the top flight so gate revenue is a fart in a teacup.  Not so much after a year or two outside it.  They had about 90 million quid in players and over 70 million on the wages last time .  If they'd have stayed down  for 3 years they'd have been buggered.

Edited February 13 by Gee SCREAMER !!
.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Gerry Daly said:

Why

58 minutes ago, StarterForTen said:

Would that suggest the club spends circa £17m a year on costs other than player wages?

57 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

How do you work that out? 

This link gives a reasonable estimate for non playing staff wages for a similar size club.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/money-go-hidden-costs-running-15860716.amp

[G STAR RAM]

16 hours ago, enachops said:

Oh come on. CEO and finance officer of a club going into admin. Of course he has some responsibility. Morris is the ultimate one of course, but Pearce constantly said we weren’t in danger of FFP. He was wrong. 

Well the last time I remember him saying it was at the Nunsfield House fans forum in January 2019.

At that point in time it was true what he was saying. 

The ground sale and amortisation method had both been agreed with the EFL by this point.

I'm not sure we can hold it against Pearce that we subsequently failed FFP based on the EFL backtracking on their agreement and retrospectively changing the rules.

I can confidently say I'm not in danger of defaulting on my mortgage payments, however, if the BoE raised the interest rates up to 20% I would. 

[G STAR RAM]

17 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

The thing that does annoy me, is that I thought we'd (somehow) be clever enough to be running two different versions of the accounts - one with our amortisation method applied and one with the 'standard' method so we knew exactly what we could ensure we did just enough to be keeping within the limits whilst fully understanding just how far we could push things, if that makes any sort of sense at all.

Why would they do that when the EFL had agreed the new method?

[On the Ram Page]

Surprised there hasn’t been more comment on what he has said about our Business Plans, transfer strategies (pots etc) and transfer windows. Plus it seems absolutely clear that both David Clowes and Pearce both hold Paul Warne in the highest esteem in respect of his management and man management. Clear he is not going anywhere.

Thought the anti-Warne brigade would be all over this.

[rammieib]

15 hours ago, StarterForTen said:

Would that suggest the club spends circa £17m a year on costs other than player wages?

Honestly - I could easily see it in the region of £12-15m yes.

- I imagine the club employs around 150 full-time none-playing staff (i don't know actual number until the club accounts come out) - circa £40k average salary including NI payments = £6,000,000m.

- Salaries of Coaching Staff - £500k-750k as a Guess. 

- Police Bill - £400k (Some googling provides an indicative cost per game)

- Match Day Staff - £250k (Stewards etc)

- Loan Costs - 1-2m?

- Agent Fees - 500k?

- Fee's on rates and utilities - £1m. Not just Pride Park to Run but also Moor Farm. (I'm grouping Pride Park into the running costs of the club even though its a separate legal entity). Water, Electricity, Council Tax. 

- I imagine Coach and overnight Travel alone is £250k (Remember Under 21's, Under 18's, Women's team)

- CAPEX investment - Probably at least £500k per year - Yes this is financially spread over years but a 5-year depreciation (Straight line!!!) - could still see £500k IMO. Think of the new advertising at PP, the Bigger Screen, etc

- So I think I am nearly at £12m with the above on the bigger expenses.

Now remember the Creditors list when we went into Administration - There were probably 100 different companies/organisations on that list who were owed money. I'm sure we've consolidated a lot of spend since but there will still be an awful lot of day to day operational costs in the business. Caterers, vehicles, stationary, marketing, I.T, maintenance. the list will add up very very quickly.

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Honestly - I could easily see it in the region of £12-15m yes.

- I imagine the club employs around 150 full-time none-playing staff (i don't know actual number until the club accounts come out) - circa £40k average salary including NI payments = £6,000,000m.

- Salaries of Coaching Staff - £500k-750k as a Guess. 

- Police Bill - £400k (Some googling provides an indicative cost per game)

- Match Day Staff - £250k (Stewards etc)

- Loan Costs - 1-2m?

- Agent Fees - 500k?

- Fee's on rates and utilities - £1m. Not just Pride Park to Run but also Moor Farm. (I'm grouping Pride Park into the running costs of the club even though its a separate legal entity). Water, Electricity, Council Tax. 

- I imagine Coach and overnight Travel alone is £250k (Remember Under 21's, Under 18's, Women's team)

- CAPEX investment - Probably at least £500k per year - Yes this is financially spread over years but a 5-year depreciation (Straight line!!!) - could still see £500k IMO. Think of the new advertising at PP, the Bigger Screen, etc

- So I think I am nearly at £12m with the above on the bigger expenses.

Now remember the Creditors list when we went into Administration - There were probably 100 different companies/organisations on that list who were owed money. I'm sure we've consolidated a lot of spend since but there will still be an awful lot of day to day operational costs in the business. Caterers, vehicles, stationary, marketing, I.T, maintenance. the list will add up very very quickly.

You've underestimated a lot. For example, back in 2019, Boro paid £3.7m in rates, VAT, utilities and insurance. We also know utility rates have sky rocketted since then - add another £1m minimum to that figure. We're basicallly talking £5m, where your estimate is just £1m!

You also missed off matchday doctors/paramedics - another £400k

There's another £2m+ on maintenance and cleanign of the stadium and training ground.

[europia]

On 13/02/2024 at 16:51, angieram said:

We did touch on it a few days' ago in the What questions would you ask? thread, @Caerphilly Ram.

But I agree it warrants its own thread and I predict it will be very busy on here later! 

I'm biased because I have talked to Stephen Pearce on quite a few occasions at meetings and also heard him at the September fans'  forum. I find him open and approachable - and actually, quite humble. 

Do I think he deliberately fibs? No. Do I think there are things he won't ever be able to talk about legally? Yes. Mel Morris will have hired the best legal expertise to make sure of this.

But your response to Pearce and what he says is coloured by how you feel about his involvement with our previous owner and I feel that sadly he is unable to change that perception simply because he can't answer some of the questions people want to know the answers to.

My experience is I know that the previous owner wasn't honest with us and was definitely the one pulling the strings, that makes me prepared to give Pearce a chance. (Cue John Lennon song!) 

I genuinely respect your opinion, and as you suggest, an individuals perspective will be influenced by their thoughts on the way things operated during Mel Morris's tenure. However, the vast majority would agree, that the financial management was totally shambolic. 

To the many people who've taken an interest, the whole thing with Pearce will seem odd. It's hard to imagine that someone so closely involved in what was without doubt, Derby County's darkest days, is actually still at the club. In most organisational changes (non football included) of the scale of what has taken place at DCFC, a top level restructuring would (at some point) see a wholesale clear out of the previous administration. Pearce still being at the club is strange enough, but to suggest that he can barely utter anything of relevance due to NDA's seems ridiculous and only fuels suspicions. 

It seems only a close knit group of people are aware of the motivation behind keeping SP at the club. It should be remembered that the loyal supporters played a massive part in saving the club, ensuring that it was worthwhile Mr Clowes getting involved. If the fans had turned their back, there would be no DCFC. Makes one wonder, if Mr Pearce has ever considered that it would be better to walk away, rather than apparently being muted by NDA's, and tainted by associated with the previous administrations murky finances. That's probably the honourable thing to do, but perhaps not in the world we currently live in. 

[cannable]

I’m not sure there’s any major secret as to why we went into administration. We had an owner whose net worth was £500,000,000 and in his first three years as owner the club had lost £97,000,000.

[DiggerB]

1 hour ago, europia said:

I genuinely respect your opinion, and as you suggest, an individuals perspective will be influenced by their thoughts on the way things operated during Mel Morris's tenure. However, the vast majority would agree, that the financial management was totally shambolic. 

To the many people who've taken an interest, the whole thing with Pearce will seem odd. It's hard to imagine that someone so closely involved in what was without doubt, Derby County's darkest days, is actually still at the club. In most organisational changes (non football included) of the scale of what has taken place at DCFC, a top level restructuring would (at some point) see a wholesale clear out of the previous administration. Pearce still being at the club is strange enough, but to suggest that he can barely utter anything of relevance due to NDA's seems ridiculous and only fuels suspicions. 

It seems only a close knit group of people are aware of the motivation behind keeping SP at the club. It should be remembered that the loyal supporters played a massive part in saving the club, ensuring that it was worthwhile Mr Clowes getting involved. If the fans had turned their back, there would be no DCFC. Makes one wonder, if Mr Pearce has ever considered that it would be better to walk away, rather than apparently being muted by NDA's, and tainted by associated with the previous administrations murky finances. That's probably the honourable thing to do, but perhaps not in the world we currently live in. 

He knows where the bodies are buried! Metaphorically, of course!

[TomTom92]

23 hours ago, On the Ram Page said:

Surprised there hasn’t been more comment on what he has said about our Business Plans, transfer strategies (pots etc) and transfer windows. Plus it seems absolutely clear that both David Clowes and Pearce both hold Paul Warne in the highest esteem in respect of his management and man management. Clear he is not going anywhere.

Thought the anti-Warne brigade would be all over this.

Not listened to it yet so i'm unable to pass comment. But if DC and SP are as besotted with Warne as you allude to then that's concerning. 

I guess its finding the balance as an owner between knowing what goes on behind close doors and knowing maybe that PW is a good man thats genuinely giving his all. Against if all the fans decided to walk away because of his loyalty to PW (an exaggeration to make a point) there would be no football club. 

I think even the staunchest of Warne fans would be tested if we failed to go up this season. As I've said in other threads and I'm not a psychic but next seasons LG1 looks disgusting to get out of. Do i think another summer of PW recruitment at this level would see us as an automatic promotion team next season? No 

[duncanjwitham]

10 hours ago, cannable said:

I’m not sure there’s any major secret as to why we went into administration. We had an owner whose net worth was £500,000,000 and in his first three years as owner the club had lost £97,000,000.

That's certainly my take on it.  We overcommitted financially, with Morris was happily covering the shortfall each month, up until he decided he couldn't afford it and stopped.  The EFL issues (on top of accumulating debt) basically prevented a sale, and then a combination of those 2 factors plus COVID pushed us over the edge.  There's no super secret conspiracy, or pots of missing money to find or anything.

Regarding Pearce, the only major issues you can have with him are the overcommitting and the amortization method stuff.  If Morris had committed to covering the shortfall, then I'm not sure what Pearce was supposed to do about it.  Almost every football club in the country is reliant on their owner putting money in to keep the lights on, we weren't unusual in that respect (and are still in that kind of position now, to some degree).  And for what it's worth, I suspect the NDAs are mostly around this stuff - what guarantees Morris gave to the club about putting money in, and whether he stuck to them or not.

And of course, the amortization method was signed off by at least 4 separate sets of accountants, including the EFL's own choice of independent forensic accountant, so it's hard to pin blame on Pearce for that.