Turk Thrust Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said: Has a country that's had a woman in the top job ever started a war, (apart from Thatcher v the working class)? Yes. Yom Kippur war 1973. Well not started exactly but heavily involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Git Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Turk Thrust said: Yes. Yom Kippur war 1973. Well not started exactly but heavily involved As already stated by Andy, Israel didn't start it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said: Has a country that's had a woman in the top job ever started a war, (apart from Thatcher v the working class)? If you go all the way back to monarchs when they actually had power, then the answer is a definitive yes. Queens were just as likely to start or continue a war as a King apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 What has always puzzled me is why the UN is absent. Take Cyprus, there is a no man's land border separating northern Cyprus from the south. Why can't they have something like this around Gaza. Israel have made Gaza a 21miles long prison for years. Hamas are a proxy for the Iran nutters as I understand it. Two wrongs have never made a right, simple as that. As several posters have said it is one hell of a s*** show. Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: What has always puzzled me is why the UN is absent. Take Cyprus, there is a no man's land border separating northern Cyprus from the south. Why can't they have something like this around Gaza. Israel have made Gaza a 21miles long prison for years. Hamas are a proxy for the Iran nutters as I understand it. Two wrongs have never made a right, simple as that. As several posters have said it is one hell of a s*** show. The UN do try I think. They're pretty powerless and had the whole situation dumped in their lap when the British realised that Arabs and Jews were never going to find peace in the region. They're just so powerless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 It needs a totally permanent solution - one where both sides are absolutely blameless yet tragically wiped out. Where's a giant meteorite when you really need one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, Alpha said: The UN do try I think. They're pretty powerless and had the whole situation dumped in their lap when the British realised that Arabs and Jews were never going to find peace in the region. They're just so powerless. Removing all vetoes from Security Council members would be a necessary first step Alph, Malagaram and Highgate 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 This took months to plan, there is no way that Israeli authorities were not aware of it, which means that they wanted it. They wouldn't set up their own people for slaughter I hear you say. Hamas knew what the response to their brutality would be. They wouldn't set up their own people for slaughter I hear you say. Madness and evildoers having their way and the common serfs the ones to suffer as usual. uttoxram75 and Ram-Alf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: What has always puzzled me is why the UN is absent. Take Cyprus, there is a no man's land border separating northern Cyprus from the south. Why can't they have something like this around Gaza. Israel have made Gaza a 21miles long prison for years. Hamas are a proxy for the Iran nutters as I understand it. Two wrongs have never made a right, simple as that. As several posters have said it is one hell of a s*** show. I realised exactly how powerless the UN was during the conflict in the Balkans and the assistance mission in Rwanda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 12 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Israel didn't start that war What constitutes starting a War, A declaration of War, A land grab by another Country, Defending land that you think is yours, Or maybe refusing peace talks. Most historians blame Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir for the outbreak of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, having allegedly rejected all peace proposals made by Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. In fact, Sadat was adamantly opposed to Meir’s demand for direct negotiations, envisaging political settlement as an American dictate on Israel. The Yom Kippur War shook both sides of their intransigence and brought them closer to each other’s position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malagaram Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Well done to Alpha in starting this thread,a lot of very good points being raised. HorsforthRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 15 hours ago, David said: I take the side of all the innocent people getting blown up and murdered whilst trying to peacefully live their lives. Stop killing people ffs. Spot on David. There's so many aggressive arguments from both sides all over the media platforms and I'm scratching my head thinking innocent people from both have been brutally murdered. A dance music festival being enjoyed by thousands of Jewish folks, nothing political, people having a good time. All of a sudden people in gliders with machine guns open fire and kill well over 200 people. Then innocent families in Gaza being killed by missiles and now being told they need all need to evacuate before they are bombed 24 hours later. I'm pretty certain 95% of people on both sides want to live in peace and carry on their daily lives. The media seem to blow up this idea it's Jews vs Muslims and everyone hates it each other. That's just not true. Horrific to watch, nobody deserves this level of violence. Day, Stive Pesley, cstand and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 There's no evidence of an attack on the festival, nor any evidence of 20 murdered babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 15 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: There's no evidence of an attack on the festival https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67056741 Mate - if you genuinely think that, then that's up to you, but you're in Sandy Hook territory here sage, Tamworthram, HorsforthRam and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: There's no evidence of an attack on the festival, nor any evidence of 20 murdered babies. Yuval Harari, who seems like a trustworthy source and who is an outspoken critic of the Israeli government, has spoken about how his own aunt and uncle hid in their homes while gangs of Hamas members went from door to door killing whole families in their village. The indiscriminate murder of large numbers of innocent Israeli civilians by Hamas seems to be beyond doubt at this stage. The fear now is how many innocent Palestinians will be killed in the overwhelming response. Edited October 14, 2023 by Highgate Carl Sagan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 14, 2023 Author Share Posted October 14, 2023 5 hours ago, SSD said: Spot on David. There's so many aggressive arguments from both sides all over the media platforms and I'm scratching my head thinking innocent people from both have been brutally murdered. A dance music festival being enjoyed by thousands of Jewish folks, nothing political, people having a good time. All of a sudden people in gliders with machine guns open fire and kill well over 200 people. Then innocent families in Gaza being killed by missiles and now being told they need all need to evacuate before they are bombed 24 hours later. I'm pretty certain 95% of people on both sides want to live in peace and carry on their daily lives. The media seem to blow up this idea it's Jews vs Muslims and everyone hates it each other. That's just not true. Horrific to watch, nobody deserves this level of violence. Problem in this war is that on one side you have Israel that actually encourages it's people to settle in Palestinian land. Every time these civilians are attacked it justifies the next military action. On the other side Hamas/Hezbollah etc in particular don't see these civilians as civilians. They're complicit. Stealing land and expanding Israeli borders. So when they kill hundreds of people at a festival it's hundreds that can't steal land and support the Israeli occupation. Israel face guerilla warfare and we've seen time and time again how these people fight. Unable to field armies with air and sea support they resort to shocking raids and terror. They hide amongst civilians using them human shields because there's no other way for them to survive and fight Obviously I agree with you. Millions of innocent Jews and Arabs are pawns. I'm not sure how to view the illegal settlers but certainly not how Hamas do. Children are not invaders. And how do you view the people of Gaza who did support Hamas in 2006. Certainly not as "Human animals" who you can blockade and torment. There will be no peace. Not without sanctions on Israel. And even then the goals of Iranian funded groups are to eradicate Israel entirely. There will be no two state solution. None of the players want peace. It's depressing to think so many Jews and Arabs have to live in fear. HorsforthRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 We have to remember that the Israeli people and the Palestinian people are NOT the Israeli government/Hamas - any more than the British government was the British people when it was illegally going to war in Iraq based on a lie HorsforthRam, Alph and EtoileSportiveDeDerby 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 International Centre of Justice for Palestinians has written to Prime Minister Rishi Sunak informing him of their intention to prosecute UK government officials for complicity in Israeli war crimes in Gaza. Tory MP Crispin Blunt, "In sending the British Navy to the Eastern Med to show support for a nation state that is actively involved in committing war crimes, does this constitute conspiracy to aid a war crime? " Magicman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicman Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) Free Palestine from scumbag Hamas terrorists . Edited October 15, 2023 by Magicman Malagaram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 17 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: There's no evidence of an attack on the festival, nor any evidence of 20 murdered babies. You can look at the photographs( in the Daily Telegraph for example) if you want to. I don’t want to. it amazes me how people deny such things and it troubles me what motivation people have for such stubborn denial. Eddie, AndyinLiverpool and Tamworthram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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