Palestine

[PistoldPete]

34 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

where? Facts aren't anti-semitic just cos the subject may be Jewish.

Saying The Jews having too much control over anything is not a healthy comment to make in historical context. Even without the history so what? Also there’s  another trope that everything is a conspiracy involving Israel, the Americans, the West etc. All the capitalists sticking together. And conspiracy theories generally like 9/11 being faked or the work of Israel to get support from America etc etc. it really isn’t healthy and has some pretty sinister overtones, not just the work of harmless crackpots. 

[Mostyn6]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Saying The Jews having too much control over anything is not a healthy comment to make in historical context. Even without the history so what? Also there’s  another trope that everything is a conspiracy involving Israel, the Americans, the West etc. All the capitalists sticking together. And conspiracy theories generally like 9/11 being faked or the work of Israel to get support from America etc etc. it really isn’t healthy and has some pretty sinister overtones, not just the work of harmless crackpots. 

I don't believe I've said any of those things, but happy to be corrected.

Here is my quote

"I don't doubt that there have been Hamas attacks, but with everything Israel has reported for at least the last 15years (I've been paying attention), what they report as severe attacks are nowhere near, what they report as attacks in previous years have been children throwing stones from 1/2 a mile away (and being shot dead by Israeli forces). There is plenty of footage of this.

For clarity, Hamas is real, but the media is so one-sided and the media is literally all owned by Israel so all the reporting is biased.

If you want to justify a war, you create/embellish/exaggerate something to create rage."

[Jubbs]

8 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

For clarity, Hamas is real, but the media is so one-sided and the media is literally all owned by Israel so all the reporting is biased.

Just to add to this, anyone that has BBC News alerts on their phones will have received multiple regarding Hamas attacks on Israel, but had none on the hundreds of Israel attacks on Gaza etc.

[PistoldPete]

11 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

I don't believe I've said any of those things, but happy to be corrected.

Here is my quote

"I don't doubt that there have been Hamas attacks, but with everything Israel has reported for at least the last 15years (I've been paying attention), what they report as severe attacks are nowhere near, what they report as attacks in previous years have been children throwing stones from 1/2 a mile away (and being shot dead by Israeli forces). There is plenty of footage of this.

For clarity, Hamas is real, but the media is so one-sided and the media is literally all owned by Israel so all the reporting is biased.

If you want to justify a war, you create/embellish/exaggerate something to create rage."

The media groups in Uk who have biggest influence are BbC and Rupert Murdoch. Neither are Jewish. 
 

So “literally all owned by Israel” isn’t a creation/ embellishment/ exaggeration on your part to create rage? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

51 minutes ago, Anon said:

It's good to correct the record because it is irritating when a quote is erroneously attributed to someone, but I don't see how it's fair to dismiss what is a rather generic truism because of who originally coined the phrase.

It isn't a truism really. At least not in its banality. It's what it is used for that is revealing. Where this meme (and similar ones with the same quote) are used - and they crop up quite regularly - it is usually by far right types referring to Jewish business and Jewish media controlling the world. The use of Voltaire's name is to give the conspiracy theory the legitamacy of a proper writer that people have heard of but might not be familar with.

[Alph]

Israel would love this to be about anti-Semitism. 

Takes the spotlight off their expansion, disproportionate retaliation whenever attacked, them ignoring the UN while America veto resolutions. 

They wish it was anti-Semitism

Hamas have, over the years, been recognised as a legitimate government and many parts of the world have been slow or still don't designate them as a terrorist organisation 

Some of the branches of Hamas are like the Qassam Brigade (I think took the "credit" for the festival attack are designated terrorists. But I wonder why so many nations that aren't America or indeed America's pets were so reluctant to do so. 

Hamas are very obviously not helpful for peace. They fight as guerillas often do. They do carry out terror attacks. They are terrorists. But they're also the only real strength against an aggressive expansionist military nation that carries out their own terror.

The IDF/Israel break laws and defy the UN consistently. It's very handy that they're such a great asset in the weapons trade and protected by America and Britain or else maybe they'd be considered terrorist considering the number of deaths of innocent civilians 

Yes, Israel would love this to be about anti-Semitism. They were asked to explain why a missile struck an evacuation route late last week. Originally they refused to acknowledge it (as usual) and then responded to a completely separate incident. 

At what point does the terrible history of treatment of Jewish people stop becoming a defence of their terrible crimes. 

I read, rather than saw, Piers Morgan was holding a Hamas official accountable for the festival attack. And he shut him down with "I don't care about whataboutism" 

You have to care about whataboutism you fookin dog s***. You can't build down a 70 year war to individual moments of conflict. You have to understand the nuance involved to even begin to develop an opinion on a resolution. 

Israel absolutely has a right to defend itself. It has every right to come down hard on Hamas. It has every right to be conscious of the treatment of Jews in history. And Jews have a right to be safe. 

But so do the Arabs in Palestine. And you don't want to begin to compare the number of dead civilians and children because it doesn't favour Israel

Over 6,000 civilian deaths before the recent events since 2008 for Palestine. 

Less than 400 for Israel. 

 

Over 150,000 for Palestinians requiring hospital treatment as a result of Israeli's 

Just over 6,000 Israelis requiring hospital treatment as a result of Palestinians

Of course, the number of deaths for Palestinians will be higher considering the nature of the conflict. But I think it's fair to say Israel does a little bit more than reasonably protect itself. 

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It isn't a truism really. At least not in its banality. It's what it is used for that is revealing. Where this meme (and similar ones with the same quote) are used - and they crop up quite regularly - it is usually by far right types referring to Jewish business and Jewish media controlling the world. The use of Voltaire's name is to give the conspiracy theory the legitamacy of a proper writer that people have heard of but might not be familar with.

I've seen first hand the censorship and deletion, and discrediting of valid and true observations. In certain circumstances and situations, that quote is relevant. I've seen people's careers attacked and earning power shut down on the basis of their justified criticisms. 

Some things may actually be coincidentally linked, however, a lot is subjective/objective depending on mindset.

I respect anyone and everyone's right to believe what they choose to. Myself, I know what is NOT reported in MSM, and on that basis, my beliefs are formed.

[uttoxram75]

40 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The media groups in Uk who have biggest influence are BbC and Rupert Murdoch. Neither are Jewish. 
 

So “literally all owned by Israel” isn’t a creation/ embellishment/ exaggeration on your part to create rage? 

Rupert Murdoch's mother was Jewish. 

[PistoldPete]

4 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Rupert Murdoch's mother was Jewish. 

I think she may be dead. 

[ariotofmyown]

35 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The media groups in Uk who have biggest influence are BbC and Rupert Murdoch. Neither are Jewish. 
 

So “literally all owned by Israel” isn’t a creation/ embellishment/ exaggeration on your part to create rage? 

I was just thinking the same thing, Murdoch isn't Jewish is he?

The BBC is publicly owned.

The Daily Mail controlling shareholder doesn't seem to be Jewish, and the Rothmere ownership had their famous support of 1930s Germany too.

The Guardian seems to maybe have some Jewish links in it's ultimate ownership, but has the reputation for being more critical of Israel than more right wing outlets.

Isn't the route of much anti-semitism that Jews were historically allowed to lend money, whereas Christians weren't. And as there is a lot of money to be made in finance, Jewish people punched about their weight in becoming rich and successful?

 

[PistoldPete]

Just now, ariotofmyown said:

I was just thinking the same thing, Murdoch isn't Jewish is he?

The BBC is publicly owned.

The Daily Mail controlling shareholder doesn't seem to be Jewish, and the Rothmere ownership had their famous support of 1930s Germany too.

The Guardian seems to maybe have some Jewish links in it's ultimate ownership, but has the reputation for being more critical of Israel than more right wing outlets.

Isn't the route of much anti-semitism that Jews were historically allowed to lend money, whereas Christians weren't. And as there is a lot of money to be made in finance, Jewish people punched about their weight in becoming rich and successful?

 

There are plenty of successful Jews in all fields. So what is what I say to that. But some people seem to have a problem with it. 

[uttoxram75]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think she may be dead. 

That's why i said was.

[Alph]

I mean that factual guide Rev posted was an example of the style of reporting you get. A few minor lies "Israel was attacked in 1967" and a few rather dismissive "the Palestinians see it as...." (as oppose to it's the way it actually is). Then it's "Israel faced (not 'Israel feels'). 

The pattern is usually to get the real human side across for the country we support. Individual stories, really make people empathize. Then do it on a broader scale for the country we oppose. Tell a wider story. Tell second hand accounts.

The UN suddenly becomes the voice of reason when it condemns Russia. But less so when it criticises Israel. 

We heard all about Russian allies stance on that war. 

But we are told that the country that sends billions to Israel is trying to defuse to situation. Yes, I'm sure peace will be found just as the Palestinians are beaten to a satisfactory level and not a moment sooner. Why not tell the US attitude on the UN council proposals

This time is slightly better thanks to access to various reports from across the world. But still, there's a bias. Because everything is quite generic when it's what they have to report. But much more personal when it's what they want to report. 

Less bias than how it's reported in other parts of the world I concede. Hence Russia Today getting blocked. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Alpha

[Mostyn6]

58 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The media groups in Uk who have biggest influence are BbC and Rupert Murdoch. Neither are Jewish. 
 

So “literally all owned by Israel” isn’t a creation/ embellishment/ exaggeration on your part to create rage? 

 

11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I was just thinking the same thing, Murdoch isn't Jewish is he?

The BBC is publicly owned.

The Daily Mail controlling shareholder doesn't seem to be Jewish, and the Rothmere ownership had their famous support of 1930s Germany too.

The Guardian seems to maybe have some Jewish links in it's ultimate ownership, but has the reputation for being more critical of Israel than more right wing outlets.

Isn't the route of much anti-semitism that Jews were historically allowed to lend money, whereas Christians weren't. And as there is a lot of money to be made in finance, Jewish people punched about their weight in becoming rich and successful?

 

The BBC are told what to report and what not to report. They are all aligned (national media in big countries) to churn out designed narratives, and any deviation results in sackings. There is no impartiality at all. Every now and then, a new outlet is born, and some of us get excited about the prospect of truly impartial and truthful journalism, but pretty quickly they are bought into line by some form of governance. 

I really don't know who controls the narrative or why, and I don't believe 90% of "theories" I read or hear. However, I can spot bullsh*t, even if I don't know the truth.

[Ram-Alf]

2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

 But I left Derby in one direction, 

Which one are you? 😁

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I wondered if anyone would say that. But I left Derby in one direction, and G left Derby in the other direction and I've not seen him for 2 years. I've never subscribed to David's sites/newsletters etc, nor read any of his books in entirety. I'll admit that G's support for Palestine over the years has made me pay closer attention, and aligned with what I know to be dishonest and biased mainstream media in almost everything, I don't believe a word I hear on the news.

I will add though, almost everything about the last few years of Covid, Lockdowns, Vaccines, WEF, Cashless society, was all called out by the likes of The Ickes, all dismissed by people like you, and then proven to be more accurate than how reported by the mainstream. 

But, as they say, "you do you.. hun". I'm happy to be open-minded about these things.

There’s far more to David icke than the conspiracy theory and lizard people stuff , personally I find him quite an interesting and challenging bloke but that’s because I’m able to switch off the noise and able to agree and disagree with people rather than bin them if I don’t agree with everything they say or believe, to reach balance I believe you have to be able to take bits you feel right and leave bits you feel wrong from anyone and anything 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Ram-Alf]

25 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

 

The BBC are told what to report and what not to report. They are all aligned (national media in big countries) to churn out designed narratives, and any deviation results in sackings. There is no impartiality at all. Every now and then, a new outlet is born, and some of us get excited about the prospect of truly impartial and truthful journalism, but pretty quickly they are bought into line by some form of governance. 

I really don't know who controls the narrative or why, and I don't believe 90% of "theories" I read or hear. However, I can spot bullsh*t, even if I don't know the truth.

I neither watch the BBC News or Sky news...for the above reason, A lot of manufactured/edited BS, But I do believe Hamas attacked and killed 100s with an incursion into Israel...the Internet is a useful tool to find the truth...but you have to believe in your own mind what you read 😉

[ariotofmyown]

44 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

There are plenty of successful Jews in all fields. So what is what I say to that. But some people seem to have a problem with it. 

And I think that problem is that Jews over index in terms of successful people, so non-Jews get bitter and look for conspiracy.

Hisrotically, there were also different to the Christian countries they lived in, so were always outsiders and suffered the same predjudice that different people always have.

Ironically, Jews living within Arab/Muslim countries seemed to suffer much less predjudice. It was our good old Christian ancestors that really didn't seem to like them.

[Mostyn6]

4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

And I think that problem is that Jews over index in terms of successful people, so non-Jews get bitter and look for conspiracy.

Hisrotically, there were also different to the Christian countries they lived in, so were always outsiders and suffered the same predjudice that different people always have.

Ironically, Jews living within Arab/Muslim countries seemed to suffer much less predjudice. It was our good old Christian ancestors that really didn't seem to like them.

I agree with this. I personally couldn't care less about someone's religion, race or ethnicity. I will however always judge someone on their behaviour and treatment of others. I could go into detail, but that would lead to accusations of bigotry and/or racism. I don't like the way some cultures treat women and gays/lesbians. I am probably becoming more against any/all religion the older I get. I also find myself distressed by gang culture and the devaluing of life that comes with tribal instinct.

My views on Israel (mainly it's power-people) are based on the total disregard for what we'd call "Joe Public" here, that live simple and harmless lives in Palestine.

[Alph]

I thought this pretty accurate.