Derby v Shrewsbury (A) Match Thread

[Tamworthram]

Imagine if one (or even two) of those late penalty area scrambles had been poked home? A lot of us would have been feeling a whole lot better  (we all know good it feels to get a point or three as a result of late goals) but it would have just papered over another dismal performance.

[I am Ram]

Disappointed in the manager, disappointed in the coaches, disappointed in the players, disappointed not many of the managers signings are contributing enough, disappointed that fans and players argue, disappointed Blackpool wasn't the turning point, in terms of performances', disappointed in how i let the football effect my weekend, disappointed i feel i need to write this. 

[May Contain Nuts]

21 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

For me there has to be some responsibility on the players as well as Warne. There were chances today, as there were against Cheltenham and in other games this season. Performances aren’t great, tactics are one dimensional etc and that all sits with Warne…not being able hit the target or put a shot either side of the keeper when you do hit the target or find a rams player with a set piece etc has to at least partly sit with the players. 

Yes, but if you know that you don't have prolific forwards and they typically need 3-4 proper chances to score a goal, then you do everything in your power to make sure that the rest of your team creates enough chances - and just as importantly enough variety of chances - to compensate for their profligacy.

When your gameplan is as predictable as Warne's is though and your good results - think Peterborough away this season or Bristol Rovers at home last season  - depend on those strikers managing to defy their career histories and be unusually prolific then you end up in trouble when they revert to the norm.

Today we should have had a penalty when Forsyth was fouled. Refs fault. Did we create that situation again during the game? Or similar situations? Not really. So the ref doesn't have the chance to even up the wrong with a right. Or even another wrong!

I always scoff at the phrase "you make your own luck" (luck cannot be controlled) but I think what people really mean is... you create your own opportunities for luck to fall in your favour.

A brilliant example of doing things the right way was Bournemouth in about 2015, they seemed to be the luckiest team in existence, penalty after penalty - lots incorrectly given, but lots given because of the sheer amount of possession they'd have in and around the opponent's penalty area.

We don't do that, because we don't value possession and we don't have reliable (productive) patterns of play, everything is in the moment and sporadic.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[hintonsboots]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not your point, but why didn't Nat hit it? There's no confidence anywhere is there.

Exactly what I thought. They seem scared to shoot. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, Kokosnuss said:

Yes, but if you know that you don't have prolific forwards and they typically need 3-4 proper chances to score a goal, then you do everything in your power to make sure that the rest of your team creates enough chances - and just as importantly enough variety of chances - to compensate for their profligacy.

When your gameplan is as predictable as Warne's is though and your good results - think Peterborough away this season or Bristol Rovers at home last season  - depend on those strikers managing to defy their career histories and be unusually prolific then you end up in trouble when they revert to the norm.

Today we should have had a penalty when Forsyth was fouled. Refs fault. Did we create that situation again during the game? Or similar situations? Not really. So the red doesn't have the chance to even up the wrong with a right. Or even another wrong!

I always scoff at the phrase "you make your own luck" (luck cannot be controlled) but I think what people really mean is... you create your own opportunities for luck to fall in your favour.

A brilliant example of doing things the right way was Bournemouth in about 2015, they seemed to be the luckiest team in existence, penalty after penalty - lots incorrectly given, but lots given because of the sheer amount of possession they'd have in and around the opponent's penalty area.

We don't do that, because we don't have reliable patterns of play, everything is in the moment and sporadic.

I don’t disagree. Was just airing an opinion that I don’t absolve the players completely of blame. Collectively they need to do better, and if they don’t it’ll be Warne that pays the price, as is the way. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I don’t disagree. Was just airing an opinion that I don’t absolve the players completely of blame. Collectively they need to do better, and if they don’t it’ll be Warne that pays the price, as is the way. 

So you don't believe Hourihane when he says “I’m trying my best, we’re trying our best.”?

[vonwright]

25 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

How do you know that squad is capable of reaching the top 2 without just saying they are.

He inherited a squad that was showing real potential, but perhaps needed some additions. Since then he has made a large number of his own signings. Many of these have been hugely underwhelming and several presumably expensive additions (Bradley, Elder, Washington) don't seem to have a place in the first team at all. 

The recruitment appears to have taken place with no clear formation or tactics in mind. 

What tactics we do have don't seem to suit the (better) players who were here before. 

Either these new players are better than they look at the moment (which is on the manager) or they aren't very good, and were a waste of money (which is on the manager). 

Saying 'the players aren't good enough!' isn't the defence of Warne you seem to think. We know players like Hourihane, Bird, Sibley, Cashin, Barkhuisen, NML, Forsyth are at least decent players at this level. Most of the rest are Warne signings. They will not have been cheap by L1 standards. If the squad isn't good enough that's on him.

[lrm14]

4 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I don’t disagree. Was just airing an opinion that I don’t absolve the players completely of blame. Collectively they need to do better, and if they don’t it’ll be Warne that pays the price, as is the way. 

They're not completely blameless but it feels to me that they're being asked to play a style and system that they're simply not equipped to play. The midfield is a perfect example of this, we have a tremendous amount of experience and talent in that area yet they look completely lost positionally and are being overrun by lower league journeymen every single week. Rewind a year ago with Rosenior and teams couldn't get the ball off the same players for more than 10 minutes a game. That's the fault of the manager.

[Simmo’s left foot]

Sad to see the toxic atmosphere here on the forum. Many fans think we are entitled to a result every week, and don’t grasp the fact that wins have to be scraped out every game. That’s the nature of the league we are in, and the ,imitations still upon us.

yes, it was a poor game, but so what. Move on and keep supporting the team, booing and abusing the players does not help one little bit, nor will sacking the manager before half of the season has passed. The time to consider this is at the end of this season, or a little earlier if it’s obvious a play off position won’t be obtained.

[Ramarena]

3 minutes ago, vonwright said:

He inherited a squad that was showing real potential, but perhaps needed some additions. Since then he has made a large number of his own signings. Many of these have been hugely underwhelming and several presumably expensive additions (Bradley, Elder, Washington) don't seem to have a place in the first team at all. 

The recruitment appears to have taken place with no clear formation or tactics in mind. 

What tactics we do have don't seem to suit the (better) players who were here before. 

Either these new players are better than they look at the moment (which is on the manager) or they aren't very good, and were a waste of money (which is on the manager). 

Saying 'the players aren't good enough!' isn't the defence of Warne you seem to think. We know players like Hourihane, Bird, Sibley, Cashin, Barkhuisen, NML, Forsyth are at least decent players at this level. Most of the rest are Warne signings. They will not have been cheap by L1 standards. If the squad isn't good enough that's on him.

I disagree, the summer signings were clearly brought in with 3 at the back -and wingbacks in mind.

We then quickly realised we were still not good enough playing that formation, even with the players bought specifically for it. So we returned to 4 at the back.

[Caerphilly Ram]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So you don't believe Hourihane when he says “I’m trying my best, we’re trying our best.”?

I do believe that they are trying 

[Caerphilly Ram]

2 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

They're not completely blameless but it feels to me that they're being asked to play a style and system that they're simply not equipped to play. The midfield is a perfect example of this, we have a tremendous amount of experience and talent in that area yet they look completely lost positionally and are being overrun by lower league journeymen every single week. Rewind a year ago with Rosenior and teams couldn't get the ball off the same players for more than 10 minutes a game. That's the fault of the manager.

And that’s the only addition I was adding to the conversation. Warne is at fault for plenty, and the players are at fault for some bits. 

[lrm14]

Just now, Simmo’s left foot said:

Sad to see the toxic atmosphere here on the forum. Many fans think we are entitled to a result every week, and don’t grasp the fact that wins have to be scraped out every game. That’s the nature of the league we are in, and the ,imitations still upon us.

yes, it was a poor game, but so what. Move on and keep supporting the team, booing and abusing the players does not help one little bit, nor will sacking the manager before half of the season has passed. The time to consider this is at the end of this season, or a little earlier if it’s obvious a play off position won’t be obtained.

This logic doesn't seem to apply to Pompey and Oxford this season, nor did it apply to Plymouth and Ipswich last year.

[lrm14]

Just now, Caerphilly Ram said:

And that’s the only addition I was adding to the conversation. Warne is at fault for plenty, and the players are at fault for some bits. 

I know I was just discussing your point, which is a valid one.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

5 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

Sad to see the toxic atmosphere here on the forum. Many fans think we are entitled to a result every week, and don’t grasp the fact that wins have to be scraped out every game. That’s the nature of the league we are in, and the ,imitations still upon us.

yes, it was a poor game, but so what. Move on and keep supporting the team, booing and abusing the players does not help one little bit, nor will sacking the manager before half of the season has passed. The time to consider this is at the end of this season, or a little earlier if it’s obvious a play off position won’t be obtained.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. The longer this situation is allowed to continue the more long term damage will be done to the club.

Were there any signs of improvement whatsoever I could understand advocating for more time but the simple fact is things are getting worse, not better.

[Mihangel]

22 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Imagine if one (or even two) of those late penalty area scrambles had been poked home? A lot of us would have been feeling a whole lot better  (we all know good it feels to get a point or three as a result of late goals) but it would have just papered over another dismal performance.

Agreed. I am, and always will be, a supporter of giving a manager plenty of time but even I was hoping we didn't draw because, well, we're a bit s*** and it's not getting better.

[KnowledgeisPorridge]

12 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

Sad to see the toxic atmosphere here on the forum. Many fans think we are entitled to a result every week, and don’t grasp the fact that wins have to be scraped out every game. That’s the nature of the league we are in, and the ,imitations still upon us.

yes, it was a poor game, but so what. Move on and keep supporting the team, booing and abusing the players does not help one little bit, nor will sacking the manager before half of the season has passed. The time to consider this is at the end of this season, or a little earlier if it’s obvious a play off position won’t be obtained.

Yeah keep these amazing performances coming, that will shift tickets. Time to mean business, suck it up and accept PW isn’t working. 

[Grumpy Git]

Worst overall DCFC performance I've seen since l can't remember. Absolutely fecking cluless. Like a rudderless ship in a storm.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Surely there is a tipping point where keeping him costs more than sacking him?

Possibly … but its not just sacking warne is it

backroom staff .. then a new manager and new backroom staff assuming ur not going for someone whos out of a job ( usually for the same reason we would be getting rid of warne for) 

i hear what ur saying .. but i think we just have to suck it up tbh

His last few signings give hope 

laddy at right back is a great pick up, forsah, off it totally today but has generally been v good.  Thought embleton looked lively and prmosing til he was taken away from us, nelson has done well

if u notice the players that we need more from

barks, sibs, collins, nml, CH, were all signed by previous when we were under a tight embargo 

i still say give him time .. as painful and s*** as it is 

tbh i want ti see more of wash, i know hes not great but at least gives us the option to run in behind unlike hms collins 

he did ok in little monents but its all too infrequent and feels like a flip of a coin … u cant build any sort of sustained pressure with that as ur main focal point option 

Edited October 21, 2023 by NottsRam77

[bcnram]

I don’t believe our anonymous Mr Clowes is strong enough to replace our inept manager, his clearly inept coaching team and recruitment team. I would be happy to write off this season if we found investors, formed a proper board, got rid of Warne and his immediate team and start again. We are heading nowhere at the moment. I can take a loss but our football is disorganised and woeful.