Match Thread: vs Bolton (A)

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

He was actually really good as a pundit - he clearly understood what was going on in the pitch and was eloquent explaining it.  Well worth a listen back.

The gist off it was, he’d talked quite a bit pre-match about how other teams had beaten Bolton recently - played a wide front 3 to stretch their back 3 and pick holes in it - and was baffled that we hadn’t really tried to do the same.  A fair bit about players not being able to do the jobs they were asked to do too - Fornah as a number 10, NML as a wingback etc.  It could just be me being my usual negative self, but I think he was pretty shocked about the whole way we approached the match and was biting his tongue, because he didn’t want to be too rude about Warne.

No you're not being negative thats totally how it was. He seem shocked. I've been "too soon to judge Warne" but I had forgotten those parts you mention when I summed up earlier. Yes he mentioned how other teams had obvs researched Bolton, got results and couldnt believe we hadnt done the same. Yes said Fornah seemed to have no idea of the role he was supposed to be doing. Couldn't believe NML not subbed. He really said what he thought in a factual way but you ate right seemed to be trying to be polite!

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I think we get it Dave, you weren’t too impressed with the ref 🤣

Oh. You noticed!

[Justa]

42 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Oh f*** it I should have just bolded all of that! So it's too early to change things - nearly a year btw - but he's 1-d and the team seem unconvinced. But don't change him? Wot!

It won’t take much longer before I am completely in the out camp….

[hintonsboots]

22 minutes ago, angieram said:

Because he didn't get to the team hotel until 2.30 this morning.

Having said that, he did well when he came on. Oh to be young again! 

Maybe keep the whole squad up til 2.30 am next time.

[May Contain Nuts]

55 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I just don’t see how it could have been though. It’s obvious that the squad we had last season couldn’t do full-on WarneBall (no wingbacks, no mobile midfielders etc).  And even after a bunch of signings this season, we’re still struggling to do it (the financial restrictions were always going to make it difficult to radically change the entire squad).  So did we intend Warne struggling through 2+ seasons while we got him the squad he wants? Did we intend him not doing WarneBall and using the squad we had differently?  Or did we just think he was successful elsewhere so he’ll probably be successful here?

We were sold on the idea that Warne could develop along with us and alter his style to suit. At least by those justifying his appointment in the early days.

I don't really want to quote things I haven't heard or have misremembered  but I have seen others say that he himself said he could adapt? I could be wrong. Apologies if so.

Either way, or perhaps both, it just appears that we've been missold.

 

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, Topram said:

Yes i Saw it I was there like most games, Pw was brought in for a reason not pretty football but promotion maybe if people got behind it and not call for his head after every loss would help, Ipswich Sunderland Bolton loads like us we’re stuck we aren’t entitled like people think it’s a tough league 

Yes but at least Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton and loads of other club's fans get to see decent football. Are there any other successful clubs churning out the troach that we have to put up with?

[CBRammette]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I was at the game today. Maybe I’m miss remembering and I can’t bring myself to watch the highlights yet but, were the officials really that bad or is it the usual “let’s blame the ref”?
 

No Derby player seemed to complain that much about the sending off and, despite Smith’s protests, live (and from a different angle to the ref) their penalty looked the right decision. We had a few penalty appeals in the second half but, again without the benefit of seeing a replay, none of them looked like penalties to me.

Phil Brown said ref was terrible on rad derby

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, Kokosnuss said:

We were sold on the idea that Warne could develop along with us and alter his style to suit. At least by those justifying his appointment in the early days.

I don't really want to quote things I haven't heard or have misremembered  but I have seen others say that he himself said he could adapt? I could be wrong. Apologies if so.

Either way, or perhaps both, it just appears that we've been missold.

 

It still doesn’t really make sense to me though. If you’re employing him entirely on the back of his success at Rotherham, then why would you want him to do things differently?  The entire rationale for his appointment is wanting him to reproduce here what he did there.

Maybe if it’s a manager who’s managed to build a reputation of building varied teams or something, but my understanding of Warne at Rotherham is that he was promoted from fitness coach to manager, and his entire managerial philosophy was basically out-fitnessing the other team.  Nothing about that suggests adaptability or room for development.  He’s got one thing he does well, and that’s what he always does.

And likewise, if you want a guy to develop, we had a very highly thought-of young coach here already. If you sack him and get a proven guy, it’s because you want success now.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

This isn't a Derby County I want to watch. I will of course as we all do but I want to see progressive fast fluid accurate passing by good footballers. 

I looked at our passing stats for this season and quite honestly they are appalling. 

I'm forever in the debt of David Clowse for saving the club but it looks like he has cocked up with Warne to me. He's looking like a one trick pony. 

[May Contain Nuts]

56 minutes ago, Justa said:

I’m also concerned that the team doesn’t appear to be 100% behind Warne.

To quote myself elsewhere (it wasn't funny or clever then so why do I think it is now?) 

His style requires that the players are willing and able to run through brick walls for him. 

Or to use a historic Derby meme, crawl over broken glass.

He's adopted and further built a squad which seems neither willing or able to run through a net curtain, let alone a brick wall.

Or to adapt the rubbish simile, crawl over, a, errm, luxurious soft pillowy surface 

 

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I was at the game today. Maybe I’m miss remembering and I can’t bring myself to watch the highlights yet but, were the officials really that bad or is it the usual “let’s blame the ref”?
 

No Derby player seemed to complain that much about the sending off and, despite Smith’s protests, live (and from a different angle to the ref) their penalty looked the right decision. We had a few penalty appeals in the second half but, again without the benefit of seeing a replay, none of them looked like penalties to me.

The ref didn't cost us the match, we did that all by ourselves with our tactic, but he did cost us a point or more. There may well be good grounds for the red card - he camera angle was from behind Wildsmith, and the Smith penalty may have been on the line of the penalty area, so it may well have been the correct decision. But the penalty shouts were all pretty good. A clear handball preventing the ball going through in the first half - the defender stuck his hand out behind him. Sonny Bradley was bear-hugged to the ground, there was a clear handball as the ball was bouncing around in the area b y a defender putting his hand to the ground to balance himself. But contact was definite. The weakest was NML getting blocked and barged sideways as he ran into the right hand side of the area by that behemoth of a centre half. When you consider all the soft, non-penalties that were given against us last season, and all the clear ones not given to us both last season and this, is it any wonder that these decisions get such attention? As I said earlier, if we had actually played football, Bolton were there for the taking such that the penalty shouts wouldn't have mattered, so ultimately it is still our own fault.

[8Leeds]

14 minutes ago, Justa said:

It won’t take much longer before I am completely in the out camp….

[Jourdan]

58 minutes ago, S8TY said:

…

You can’t pine after a McClaren style team, but neglect the fact that that very team took four to five years to build and a lot of tweaking and some really tough patches to swallow beforehand.

We can all accept the football isn’t good to watch at the moment and there are issues to resolve. Maybe we need to take the pain before some joy follows.

No-one is enjoying our play at the moment, but with time, is it possible things will click? We didn’t start playing our best and most coherent football last season until November/December, but once we found our stride, we got results and played some lovely football. So let’s not pretend it’s not possible and let’s not pretend all of our good players will be bypassed.

We’re going through a tough patch at the moment but surely we should see what this team looks like when we have a settled eleven with a clear and well-informed approach?

Warne is still obviously on a fact finding mission, much like he was in his first 6-10 games in charge last autumn when people said the same things you are saying now.

We need to ride it out and see how things settle down and whether it bears any fruit in the months to come.

[vonwright]

7 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

We were sold on the idea that Warne could develop along with us and alter his style to suit. At least by those justifying his appointment in the early days.

I don't really want to quote things I haven't heard or have misremembered  but I have seen others say that he himself said he could adapt? I could be wrong. Apologies if so.

Either way, or perhaps both, it just appears that we've been missold.

 

Personally I hoped Warne would be able to adapt his style to the squad he had, but thought it would be the other way around - he'd build a squad to match his preferred style. I think that's what he has tried to do but I'm not sure the squad we've got is that good, or that Warne's style will ever be very effective unless he manages to put together a very specific group, with very specific skills. Still hope I'm wrong. I remember watching Billy Davies' Derby and they could be a hard watch. But they won. So it was okay. If they hadn't won however...

[angieram]

1 hour ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

Just got back.

Someone drove into the back of me in the A50 roadworks. Which was nice.
 

Then Fornah was played as a number ten with NML at wing back, which was perplexing to say the least. Then the ref happened with some outrageously bad decisions. But we were awful. I thought we had turned a corner but I’m not sure what I saw there. I don’t think it’s too difficult - just play players where they play!! Felt sorry for Fozzy today who I thought was excellent. John-Jules has to start next time - he is so much better than Collins and Washington who both look like they have never seen a football before. 

However, all being said, all of us can be grateful tonight that we are not the ginger t***** in the grey tracksuit. Of that we can all be thankful, whether you know what I am talking about or not. 
 

Up the Rams

🐏

Hope you're okay. 

[Mrso]

4 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

This isn't a Derby County I want to watch. I will of course as we all do but I want to see progressive fast fluid accurate passing by good footballers. 

I looked at our passing stats for this season and quite honestly they are appalling. 

I'm forever in the debt of David Clowse for saving the club but it looks like he has cocked up with Warne to me. He's looking like a one trick pony. 

I agree with this.  Could forgive Clowes anything as our rescuer but was upset at Warne replacing LR.  I did expect to be proved wrong until we reached the Championship when Warne would be found out.  But looking at us and Hull this season is making me feel justified and completely miserable.

[Rammy03]

11 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

No-one is enjoying our play at the moment, but with time, is it possible things will click? We didn’t start playing our best and most coherent football last season until November/December, but once we found our stride, we got results and played some lovely football. So let’s not pretend it’s not possible and let’s not pretend all of our good players will be bypassed.

I think this is key. We just need to give it a bit of time. I don't think the chopping and changing of lineups/system/formations is helping us at all.

Our best football last season came when Forsyth was next to Cashin. They formed a really solid partnership. In front you had a midfield combination of Bird Knight and hourihane. McGoldrick the central striker with wingers either side of him. It was round pegs in round holes. It just worked. And that's where we saw some pretty nice football and results.

We are nowhere near a settled side at the moment and it's showing.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Rammy03

[Justa]

13 minutes ago, 8Leeds said:

😂🤣😂🤣😂

[DavesaRam]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You can’t pine after a McClaren style team, but neglect the fact that that very team took four to five years to build and a lot of tweaking and some really tough patches to swallow beforehand.

We can all accept the football isn’t good to watch at the moment and there are issues to resolve. Maybe we need to take the pain before some joy follows.

No-one is enjoying our play at the moment, but with time, is it possible things will click? We didn’t start playing our best and most coherent football last season until November/December, but once we found our stride, we got results and played some lovely football. So let’s not pretend it’s not possible and let’s not pretend all of our good players will be bypassed.

We’re going through a tough patch at the moment but surely we should see what this team looks like when we have a settled eleven with a clear and well-informed approach?

Warne is still obviously on a fact finding mission, much like he was in his first 6-10 games in charge last autumn when people said the same things you are saying now.

We need to ride it out and see how things settle down and whether it bears any fruit in the months to come.

We only started playing decent football when Warne was forced to drop his 3 at the back formation because of injury, but he still kept trying to go back to it several times last season. Yes we did play some lovely football.

And we do have a clear, well-informed approach - hoof it long into the channels, and hope we can bundle a corner or free-kick or two. Oh, and run around a lot. And no, this far into his tenure he shouldn't be on a fact-finding mission, he should be putting the facts he should have gleaned over the last year to use by now.

[CBRammette]

8 minutes ago, Mrso said:

I agree with this.  Could forgive Clowes anything as our rescuer but was upset at Warne replacing LR.  I did expect to be proved wrong until we reached the Championship when Warne would be found out.  But looking at us and Hull this season is making me feel justified and completely miserable.

Are you mr so or mrs o by the way?