The Paul Warne Poll

[Andicis]

14 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

They had offers to stay in the championship, but chose to drop down to league one because it was liam rosenior and the way he wanted to play football. I specifically remember him saying that at the time.

Yeah, I'm sure players with credible championship offers opted to play in league one. Seems likely. 

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Alfie May.

Regardless of what some posters have you belive, he was one we were after.

Sam Smith another.

 

To be fair there were family reasons that made a London-based club very attractive to him.

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Alfie May.

Regardless of what some posters have you belive, he was one we were after.

Sam Smith another.

 

Yer I heard the rumour about Sam Smith too but it was because he didn't like the colour of our first team kit

[DCFC Kicks]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Alright buddy. No need to get worked up. I misread your post and, not only do I acknowledge my error, I apologise. 

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

[Old Spalding Ram]

48 minutes ago, Andicis said:

We've lost 3 games at the start of the season, that's very comparable? Factoring in they lost 5-1 to a poor Charlton and lost 2-1 to Fleetwood, yes it was a stuttering start (if Warne had lost 5-1 at the start of this season our fans would be rioting). We know they hit good form after the start, not sure what you're trying to say as that's my point. 

Plymouth lost their third league game in December!

…..I’m not a Warne out type of bloke, but your comparison to our league start with Plymouth from last year is just ridiculous.

 

 

[Andicis]

Just now, Old Spalding Ram said:

Plymouth lost their third league game in December!

…..I’m not a Warne out type of bloke, but your comparison to our league start with Plymouth from last year is just ridiculous.

 

 

On what planet? 2 losses vs 3 isn't the distinction you pretend it is, especially factoring in the nature of a 5-1 defeat. That's a weird angle to take. They're similar starts. 

[Archied]

9 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yer I heard the rumour about Sam Smith too but it was because he didn't like the colour of our first team kit

Jeez ,,, Rab C scrubs up nice 😂

[May Contain Nuts]

30 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, I'm sure players with credible championship offers opted to play in league one. Seems likely. 

...and yet we prioritised our recruitment this pre-season on the premise of signing players you'd not necessarily expect to want to play in League One, but would rather be in the championship. The whole "we want to sign 2 or 3 good ones rather than 4-5 average ones" (paraphrasing) thing.

Warne has recently talked of being disappointed that a player he wanted to sign ending up joining a Championship club...

There are some things staring people in the face and backed up by comments made by the manager, owner and players which then get whitewashed to oblivion by people who decide that they'll only take what the manager says at face value when it suits them.

In one breath we're supposed to just trust what he says and have faith in the process, in another we're supposed to disregard and not hold him to it. Doesn't work both ways.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Jourdan]

3 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

We regressed in the simple fact that we started winning less games. That doesn't happen without a reason. To put it down to bad luck is just a cop out to me.

You can't just say "he would have signed another player", like McGoldrick was any old player. He was a one-off. Don't pretend any other player could have done what he did easily.

I'm on about the calibre of player. Hourihane, McGoldrick, NML, all have Prem experience. The majority of our transfers this season are from L1 or lower Champ teams they couldn't get into. Warne obviously doesn't have as good connections as Rooney or Rosenior, and I'll bet a lot of players didn't want to sign for us based on the style of play as well. Ok, yes, lets wait and see how Warne's signings get on, but there must be a reason these players were allowed to leave these lower Champ/L1 clubs.

You're not considering how long it would take to reverse what Warne is doing to the squad if we did change him in the summer. If he's staying 100+ games, this brutish style will be so engrained, it may take another season or two to change again. Will you be on here again saying we need to give that new manager 2 more transfer windows as well? how long will it go on?

We might not get another chance like this season. The teams are comparatively weak compared to recent L1 seasons, especially with Wigan and Reading getting points deductions.

Of course this season could be a right-off. Ipswich and Plymouth got 98 and 101 points. Ipswich only lost 4 games all season.
We've already lost 3. We shouldn't be settling for the play-offs

Our best run was 9 wins and 6 draws in 15 league games. That’s over two points per game and trending for over 100 points across a 46-game season. Inevitably there would be a drop off.

6 wins and 5 draws in 18 as a stat doesn’t tell the whole story though. I don’t dispute there were poor results and poor performances but there were also games where we played reasonably well and sometimes very well but didn’t come away with the points we deserved for various reasons. It’s a combination of factors. Not just luck, but it helps.

I am not pretending anything. McGoldrick was brilliant but it’s useless to speculate on how things would have been without him. We simply do not know, for better or worse.

The calibre and experience of said players can be very misleading though. You have to look at what they can offer now and bring to the table at present. You talk of the high level experience of these players, but how telling has it been really? Only McGoldrick consistently stood out last season. The rest looked very much like League 1 players.

An ingrained brute like style? Irreversible damage caused by Warne? No better chance at promotion? Please stop. If we are playing like brutes and in mid table in April, this might be fair. But in September? It seems completely unfounded hyperbole and scaremongering.

 

[Jourdan]

58 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Just look up the ppg before and after february, theres a significant drop off. 

To say warne would've signed a player remotely close to matching what McGoldrick did for us is just delusional.

As for warnes v roseniors recruitment, they are polar opposites. Rosenior was signing players with technical ability, premier league experience, promising young players. Warne has so far (despite having less transfer restictions) signed lower end championship/league one players with very little technical ability. Playing a good style of football helps to attract players. I mean who wants to come and play a bit of head tennis and run round like a headless chicken for 90mins every week?

Given the current state of this division, we should be getting top 2, not just aiming for the play offs again. It's wide open this year with no stand out teams, even the relegated championship ones have points deductions. This is a huge oppurtunity this year and giving warne another season to see if he can improve seems like a waste. 

I don’t need to look up the PPG. Of course there would be a drop off from the kind of form that if replicated across a whole season would see us on the verge of breaking divisional records.

Nowhere did I say that Warne would sign a player to match McGoldrick’s impact? I said Rosenior would have signed a different player and we don’t know what kind of knock on effect that would have had.

Polar opposites? Who are these players with superior technical ability? Who are these promising young players? Are you sure this is the desired style of play? Could we look different in 10-15 games?

We are six games in. We don’t know how strong the league is and how difficult it will be to achieve our goals. You are just guessing. What we do know is that four points separate us and the team currently in first place, so clamouring for change so relentlessly at this stage is silly when the picture could change in 2-3 games.

[Chris_Martin]

57 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, I'm sure players with credible championship offers opted to play in league one. Seems likely. 

yes, because it was rosenior.

[May Contain Nuts]

As always the most imaginative defence of Warne comes down to "Needs more time" and "We just don't know" while the goalposts get moved another 3, 6, 12, 24 months down the line. Even though he's  supposed to be a promotion specialist. 

Might as well have appointed Phil Brown again at this rate. Maybe see what Aidy Boothroyd is up to? Both have achieve bigger things than Warne.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

As always the most imaginative defence of Warne comes down to "Needs more time" and "We just don't know" while the goalposts get moved another 3, 6, 12, 24 months down the line. Even though he's  supposed to be a promotion specialist. 

Might as well have appointed Phil Brown again at this rate. Maybe see what Aidy Boothroyd is up to? Both have achieve bigger things than Warne.

Your posts are becoming as unimaginative and one dimensional as the manager and the football you are so quick to lament.

Did you genuinely expect us to win promotion last season? All the evidence points to there having been three far superior teams who quickly found their stride and maintained an unusually high level of consistency.

Clearly our chances of promotion were a long shot at best especially when the ‘promotion specialist’ arrived needing to make up ground (anywhere from 3-7 points) on those three teams and those same three teams all went on to finish with more than 95 points. For context, we’d have needed to get 2.19 points per game for 37 games to get close.

These were very three special teams, all of which obviously benefitted from time, patience and perseverance to build. That’s all we are asking for Warne to be given, especially in the absence of the financial freedom all three of those clubs enjoyed.

Even when we were in peak form, Wednesday were producing a similar level of consistency and ended up going 7-8 games beyond that. Plymouth also had an unbeaten run of a similar length to us at one stage of the season. Of course, Ipswich too produced incredible form towards the end of last season.

Perhaps let’s put last season to bed and focus on this season and our chances of promotion. Did Plymouth see themselves breaking records and winning titles 12 months later when they were thumped at home by MK Dons on the last day of 21-22? Probably not, but it shows you why time and allowing things to take shape can be ever so important.

Can promotion be achieved in the opening six games of the season? No. Are we in an impossible position that cannot be recovered? No. We are currently only four points from first place, not an insurmountable number. We have won three games this season, only one fewer than the best performing team. Despite being nowhere near our best, something everyone has been at pains to admit.

Perhaps if we give the squad time to gel and the manager time to work things out, it will yield the football and the results we are all hoping for?

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yer I heard the rumour about Sam Smith too but it was because he didn't like the colour of our first team kit

he is not he, nor a she and instead a they or something like that anyway🤣

Edited September 8, 2023 by Chris_Martin

[Chris_Martin]

9 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Your posts are becoming as unimaginative and one dimensional as the manager and the football you are so quick to lament.

Did you genuinely expect us to win promotion last season? All the evidence points to there having been three far superior teams who quickly found their stride and maintained an unusually high level of consistency.

Clearly our chances of promotion were a long shot at best especially when the ‘promotion specialist’ arrived needing to make up ground (anywhere from 3-7 points) on those three teams and those same three teams all went on to finish with more than 95 points. For context, we’d have needed to get 2.19 points per game for 37 games to get close.

These were very three special teams, all of which obviously benefitted from time, patience and perseverance to build. That’s all we are asking for Warne to be given, especially in the absence of the financial freedom all three of those clubs enjoyed.

Even when we were in peak form, Wednesday were producing a similar level of consistency and ended up going 7-8 games beyond that. Plymouth also had an unbeaten run of a similar length to us at one stage of the season. Of course, Ipswich too produced incredible form towards the end of last season.

Perhaps let’s put last season to bed and focus on this season and our chances of promotion. Did Plymouth see themselves breaking records and winning titles 12 months later when they were thumped at home by MK Dons on the last day of 21-22? Probably not, but it shows you why time and allowing things to take shape can be ever so important.

Can promotion be achieved in the opening six games of the season? No. Are we in an impossible position that cannot be recovered? No. We are currently only four points from first place, not an insurmountable number. We have won three games this season, only one fewer than the best performing team. Despite being nowhere near our best, something everyone has been at pains to admit.

Perhaps if we give the squad time to gel and the manager time to work things out, it will yield the football and the results we are all hoping for?

yes, we only needed to finish 6th to potentially achieve that, we didn't need 95 points.

Plymouths manager has only been there about 6 months longer than warne has for us and they are playing far superior football. 

More concerning than the results is the 'football' we are playing. I have seen nothing throughout warne's entire time here to suggest he knows how to play any other way, why do you believe he will?

[Ramifications]

When Rosenior took over Hull City, they were 15th in the table. Currently they are 6th. 

We are 11th. Think I am correct in stating we were 7th when Warne took over? So Hull have gotten better under Rosenior, whilst we have gotten worse under Warne. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Ramifications

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

yes, we only needed to finish 6th to potentially achieve that, we didn't need 95 points.

Plymouths manager has only been there about 6 months longer than warne has for us and they are playing far superior football. 

More concerning than the results is the 'football' we are playing. I have seen nothing throughout warne's entire time here to suggest he knows how to play any other way, why do you believe  , nothing suggests he knows how / wants to play the football YOU like 

 

nothing to suggest he knows how to / wants to play the kind of football YOU like , opinions 🤷🏻‍♂️

[May Contain Nuts]

9 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Your posts are becoming as unimaginative and one dimensional as the manager and the football you are so quick to lament.

Did you genuinely expect us to win promotion last season? All the evidence points to there having been three far superior teams who quickly found their stride and maintained an unusually high level of consistency.

Clearly our chances of promotion were a long shot at best especially when the ‘promotion specialist’ arrived needing to make up ground (anywhere from 3-7 points) on those three teams and those same three teams all went on to finish with more than 95 points. For context, we’d have needed to get 2.19 points per game for 37 games to get close.

These were very three special teams, all of which obviously benefitted from time, patience and perseverance to build. That’s all we are asking for Warne to be given, especially in the absence of the financial freedom all three of those clubs enjoyed.

Even when we were in peak form, Wednesday were producing a similar level of consistency and ended up going 7-8 games beyond that. Plymouth also had an unbeaten run of a similar length to us at one stage of the season. Of course, Ipswich too produced incredible form towards the end of last season.

Perhaps let’s put last season to bed and focus on this season and our chances of promotion. Did Plymouth see themselves breaking records and winning titles 12 months later when they were thumped at home by MK Dons on the last day of 21-22? Probably not, but it shows you why time and allowing things to take shape can be ever so important.

Can promotion be achieved in the opening six games of the season? No. Are we in an impossible position that cannot be recovered? No. We are currently only four points from first place, not an insurmountable number. We have won three games this season, only one fewer than the best performing team. Despite being nowhere near our best, something everyone has been at pains to admit.

Perhaps if we give the squad time to gel and the manager time to work things out, it will yield the football and the results we are all hoping for?

Did you genuinely expect us to win promotion last season?  - No. Which makes at least half of your post utterly redundant and an exercise in pointless waffle arguing against something that hasn't been said.

Did Plymouth see themselves breaking records and winning titles 12 months later when they were thumped at home by MK Dons on the last day of 21-22?  -

LOL you make it sound like they had a poor season. They finished 7th on 80 points and playing some excellent football, with a style of play set by a progressive manager in Ryan Lowe (currently has Preston top of the Championship)  and carried on by another progressive manager in Schumacher.

Yes they had a very poor final day result but their fans had plenty of reason to think they'd have a good season, even if nobody would have expected such dominance.

The point is they were building toward something good, attractive, sustainable and more importantly, clearly scalable.

I'm all for giving managers time, but WTF are we building towards? From evidence of nearly a whole year of Warne, the complete opposite to the above and with a style of football which directly contravenes the chances of us gelling as a team or building a solid foundation for success.

I'm not sure anyone has seriously claimed our chances of promotion are over after 6 games, or that Warne won't eventually manage it with us (even if not this season) but there's a feeling we've seen everything he has to offer, and it sure as hell isn't progressive.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[alram]

16 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

We regressed in the simple fact that we started winning less games. That doesn't happen without a reason. To put it down to bad luck is just a cop out to me.

You can't just say "he would have signed another player", like McGoldrick was any old player. He was a one-off. Don't pretend any other player could have done what he did easily.

I'm on about the calibre of player. Hourihane, McGoldrick, NML, all have Prem experience. The majority of our transfers this season are from L1 or lower Champ teams they couldn't get into. Warne obviously doesn't have as good connections as Rooney or Rosenior, and I'll bet a lot of players didn't want to sign for us based on the style of play as well. Ok, yes, lets wait and see how Warne's signings get on, but there must be a reason these players were allowed to leave these lower Champ/L1 clubs.

You're not considering how long it would take to reverse what Warne is doing to the squad if we did change him in the summer. If he's staying 100+ games, this brutish style will be so engrained, it may take another season or two to change again. Will you be on here again saying we need to give that new manager 2 more transfer windows as well? how long will it go on?

We might not get another chance like this season. The teams are comparatively weak compared to recent L1 seasons, especially with Wigan and Reading getting points deductions.

Of course this season could be a right-off. Ipswich and Plymouth got 98 and 101 points. Ipswich only lost 4 games all season.
We've already lost 3. We shouldn't be settling for the play-offs

What a fantastic post couldn’t agree more especially the bit about quality of player signing

 

for me there was a significant shift this summer to championship quality player on their way down to league one player on their way down, the quality of players we brought in this summer are nowhere near good enough if we want promotion especially considering who we lost

 

felt like I was the only one saying this in summer when we were signing some very poor league one players, the signings we made we’re that of an established league one club not one that plans to be a championship club

[Jourdan]

11 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

yes, we only needed to finish 6th to potentially achieve that, we didn't need 95 points.

Plymouths manager has only been there about 6 months longer than warne has for us and they are playing far superior football. 

More concerning than the results is the 'football' we are playing. I have seen nothing throughout warne's entire time here to suggest he knows how to play any other way, why do you believe he will?

Schumacher became manager in December 2021, so he’s been in charge for just shy of two years and his predecessor Lowe arrived in 2019. So this Plymouth project is the culmination of four years of work.

Warne hasn’t even completed his first full year in charge.

It’s OK to have high expectations, but it’s important to put realistic timescales on them.

I personally think we have played good football in patches under Warne. The key now is for him to get us in a position to produce it consistently. I think by the end of the season if the football and the results are not up to par, the club will be well within their rights to reassess.