The Paul Warne Poll

[Tyler Durden]

13 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

The majority of our transfers this season are from L1 or lower Champ teams they couldn't get into. Warne obviously doesn't have as good connections as Rooney or Rosenior, and I'll bet a lot of players didn't want to sign for us based on the style of play as well. Ok, yes, lets wait and see how Warne's signings get on, but there must be a reason these players were allowed to leave these lower Champ/L1 clubs.

You're not considering how long it would take to reverse what Warne is doing to the squad if we did change him in the summer. If he's staying 100+ games, this brutish style will be so engrained, it may take another season or two to change again. Will you be on here again saying we need to give that new manager 2 more transfer windows as well? how long will it go on?

We might not get another chance like this season. The teams are comparatively weak compared to recent L1 seasons, especially with Wigan and Reading getting points deductions.

Of course this season could be a right-off. Ipswich and Plymouth got 98 and 101 points. Ipswich only lost 4 games all season.
We've already lost 3. We shouldn't be settling for the play-offs

What bona fide evidence do you have to back up your assertion?

Edited September 8, 2023 by Tyler Durden

[Andicis]

17 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I'm on about the calibre of player. Hourihane, McGoldrick, NML, all have Prem experience. The majority of our transfers this season are from L1 or lower Champ teams they couldn't get into. Warne obviously doesn't have as good connections as Rooney or Rosenior, and I'll bet a lot of players didn't want to sign for us based on the style of play as well. Ok, yes, lets wait and see how Warne's signings get on, but there must be a reason these players were allowed to leave these lower Champ/L1 clubs

Every player we signed finished higher than we did last year. "The majority of our transfers this season are from L1 or lower champ" Why are you including league one? We signed more premier league players then we signed League One players. Of course these players from the clubs in the leagues above us aren't playing, otherwise why would they decide to move down a league?

Your point about connections pure conjecture, you're making it up as you go. 

17 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Of course this season could be a right-off. Ipswich and Plymouth got 98 and 101 points. Ipswich only lost 4 games all season.
We've already lost 3. We shouldn't be settling for the play-offs

Glad you mentioned Plymouth. How did they start last season?

Edited September 8, 2023 by Andicis

[DCFC Kicks]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

What bona fide evidence do you have to back up your assertion?

None. What evidence do you have to say otherwise? I'm giving my opinion. If I was a player, I wouldn't want to play the way we have recently. Especially when so many other teams in the division play better football.

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

None. What evidence do you have to say otherwise? I'm giving my opinion. If I was a player, I wouldn't want to play the way we have recently. Especially when so many other teams in the division play better football.

I didn't make the assertion, you did.

Where basically you've admitted that you can't support this with any evidence whatsoever but you've decided to tout it anyway as it fits with your narrative.

What you've just answered with are just pure generalisations.

You have no evidence whatsoever of which players whom we actually were in for decided to accept offers elsewhere due to Warnes playing style as you put it, nor what players would have come to the club if Rooney or Rosenoir had been in charge and not Warne.

[RoyMac5]

32 minutes ago, Yoxoram said:

Are you sure you are on the right forum? Your post is sensible and not calling for instant gratification.

Instant gratification?! We could see how well Rosenior had the squad playing, and then Warne managed to keep it going for a while too. Why shouldn't we expect' instant' gratification, the players were good enough.

[Andicis]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

I didn't make the assertion, you did.

Where basically you've admitted that you can't support this with any evidence whatsoever but you've decided to tout it anyway as it fits with your narrative.

What you've just answered with are just pure generalisations.

You have no evidence whatsoever of which players whom we actually were in for decided to accept offers elsewhere due to Warnes playing style as you put it, nor what players would have come to the club if Rooney or Rosenoir had been in charge and not Warne.

As is so often the case, the Warne out narrative is presented as fact based purely on one person's unreconcilable opinion. You'd think if he was as bad as they reckon they wouldn't have to invent reasons really! 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

As is so often the case, the Warne out narrative is presented as fact based purely on one person's unreconcilable opinion. You'd think if he was as bad as they reckon they wouldn't have to invent reasons really! 

In his own words last season he failed. Don't need to invent that. We started poorly and look without style, don't need to invent that. The way he plays isn't pleasing to many, don't need to invent that...etc.

[Andicis]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

In his own words last season he failed. Don't need to invent that. We started poorly and look without style, don't need to invent that. The way he plays isn't pleasing to many, don't need to invent that...etc.

It's peak irony that in your third sentence you present your opinion as fact. Lovely stuff. 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's peak irony that in your third sentence you present your opinion as fact. Lovely stuff. 

Okay, we ARE without style. That better grammar meister. 😄

[Andicis]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Okay, we ARE without style. That better grammar meister. 😄

Urm, it wasn't a critique of grammar. It was a clear example of you doing exactly what you attempted to refute in your post, discussing a subjective topic and trying to make it seem like there is an objectively right answer, which there is not. 

[DCFC Kicks]

43 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Every player we signed finished higher than we did last year. "The majority of our transfers this season are from L1 or lower champ" Why are you including league one? We signed more premier league players then we signed League One players. Of course these players from the clubs in the leagues above us aren't playing, otherwise why would they decide to move down a league?

Your point about connections pure conjecture, you're making it up as you go. 

Glad you mentioned Plymouth. How did they start last season?

My point was about comparing the recruitment this summer to last summer. Many of the players we signed last summer could have gone to the Championship if they wanted.

So you're seriously suggesting Warne has better connections in the game than someone like Wayne Rooney?

Again, you're trying to counter my point by changing what my argument was. I mentioned Plymouth to highlight how its possible for the season to be over (in terms of top 2) by the half way point.   

[Blondest Goat]

36 minutes ago, Andicis said:

As is so often the case, the Warne out narrative is presented as fact based purely on one person's unreconcilable opinion. You'd think if he was as bad as they reckon they wouldn't have to invent reasons really! 

The table is all the evidence you need really.  Not good enough for promotion last season.  Not good enough so far this season. 

I'm not a Warne-out merchant but to suggest he should stay is reliant on something changing.  The Warne out argument is based on things staying the same.  What evidence do you have that things will improve?

[Tyler Durden]

5 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

The table is all the evidence you need really.  Not good enough for promotion last season.  Not good enough so far this season. 

I'm not a Warne-out merchant but to suggest he should stay is reliant on something changing.  The Warne out argument is based on things staying the same.  What evidence do you have that things will improve?

Find it slightly ironic when you're asking for evidence to back up statements when the post which precipitated this debate was totally devoid of exactly that, but instead full of opinion and conjecture 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, DCFC Kicks said:

My point was about comparing the recruitment this summer to last summer. Many of the players we signed last summer could have gone to the Championship if they wanted.

So you're seriously suggesting Warne has better connections in the game than someone like Wayne Rooney?

Again, you're trying to counter my point by changing what my argument was. I mentioned Plymouth to highlight how its possible for the season to be over (in terms of top 2) by the half way point.   

Based on....? 

I'm not suggesting anything, again if you make a point you should back it up. 

And Plymouth literally demonstrates the example that it is possible to recover from a stuttering start with 2 league and a cup defeat early last season. Simply highlighting that fact. We aren't at the halfway point, we're at the start point. That is a much better fit for the example. 

[Andicis]

7 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

The table is all the evidence you need really.  Not good enough for promotion last season.  Not good enough so far this season. 

I'm not a Warne-out merchant but to suggest he should stay is reliant on something changing.  The Warne out argument is based on things staying the same.  What evidence do you have that things will improve?

Do we declare promotion winners in September? I would say based on our fixtures we've played some pretty strong teams to begin the season, including games away at Bolton and Peterborough as well as home games vs Oxford and Wigan. We were pretty unfortunate to lose to Bolton and Wigan. I'll also suggest that our fixture list is likely to flatten out in the coming months which generally follows a trend in improved results. 

Why would you pin any football based discussion on everything remaining the same, given that is never actually the case? It's also worth saying that is just as much of an assertion as saying things will change, what evidence do you have that things won't improve, given you're the one arguing the point. 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

We were pretty unfortunate to lose to Bolton and Wigan. I'll also suggest that our fixture list is likely to flatten out in the coming months which generally follows a trend in improved results. 

Are they facts? Or just opinion?

[Blondest Goat]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Do we declare promotion winners in September? I would say based on our fixtures we've played some pretty strong teams to begin the season, including games away at Bolton and Peterborough as well as home games vs Oxford and Wigan. We were pretty unfortunate to lose to Bolton and Wigan. I'll also suggest that our fixture list is likely to flatten out in the coming months which generally follows a trend in improved results. 

Why would you pin any football based discussion on everything remaining the same, given that is never actually the case? It's also worth saying that is just as much of an assertion as saying things will change, what evidence do you have that things won't improve, given you're the one arguing the point. 

Think you're talking in riddles.  The evidence is what's gone before - 7th last season, 3 wins 3 defeats this season.  Not good enough for promotion. 

There can only be speculation about the future whether you are Warne-out or Warne-in.

All I'm saying is that those who are saying out at least have some evidence of past results to back-up their point.   Those in the in camp (including me) only have the hope that we will improve.  There's no evidence to suggest it will.

[Tamworthram]

16 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

The table is all the evidence you need really.  Not good enough for promotion last season.  Not good enough so far this season. 

I'm not a Warne-out merchant but to suggest he should stay is reliant on something changing.  The Warne out argument is based on things staying the same.  What evidence do you have that things will improve?

Well obviously, without a crystal ball, it’s impossible to provide “evidence” that things will improve the same as no one can provide evidence that they won’t. 

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Are they facts? Or just opinion?

"I would say based on our fixtures we've played some pretty strong teams to begin the season, including games away at Bolton and Peterborough as well as home games vs Oxford and Wigan. We were pretty unfortunate to lose to Bolton and Wigan." An opinion, quantified by the "I would say" at the beginning of the string. 

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Think you're talking in riddles.  The evidence is what's gone before - 7th last season, 3 wins 3 defeats this season.  Not good enough for promotion. 

There can only be speculation about the future whether you are Warne-out or Warne-in.

All I'm saying is that those who are saying out at least have some evidence of past results to back-up their point.   Those in the in camp (including me) only have the hope that we will improve.  There's no evidence to suggest it will.

You literally undermine your first and last line with your second. You are right in the bolded sentence, I agree. That's the entire point I'm making. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Andicis