The Paul Warne Poll

[Archied]

For me the clock starts on warne from after the international break , I believe we have a squad with enough depth and variety to get it right , the window is closed and everybody knows where they are and most importantly to my mind we have enough players in midfield to be finding the right balance , no reason we can’t be a team capable of mixing it up in how we attack and press and being able to pass and move  far far better ,

my concern is Bradley , is he shot or just a nightmare start , and Collins should never come on for waghorn or any of our forwards unless it’s emergency, I like the bloke but I’m just so tired of him giving away stupid fouls that take the pressure off opposition defences at crucial times and sadly he’s not quite up to the job 

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

...For any manager poor results AND an unattractive playing style are invariably fatal, at the moment Warne is just about keeping his head above water in the results department. I'm sure he doesn't need reminding of this truism going forward. 

Why not?

Interesting point made about choosing Warne over Rosenior by Clowes. 'Duty of care' it was called.

"The club has been reviewing and assessing the managerial position since David Clowes took over and Liam Rosenior has been fantastic. They have a great relationship. The club has a duty of care towards Liam's career as someone taking his first steps in managing and what might happen to Liam if it didn't work out played a part in the decision.

Paul Warne brings experience and now is his time for a big job at a big club. Other clubs were after him, both those with and those without a manager currently. David Clowes liked how he treats players, and journalists, encouraging everyone to get the best out of themselves."

It seems obvious to some/many that Warne is struggling in his 'big job at a big club', will there also be a consideration of 'duty of care' to him? Some of his media interviews have been little short of 'desperate' at times have they not? Is he suffering and not dealing well with the pressures that managing 'a big club' brings?

Edited September 3, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Walkley Ram]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Very generous of you. But this is a thread about 'Where do you stand with Paul Warne'? So I think it's perfectly correct to keep commenting. @Tyler Durden should know what it's about and if he's so bothered he should stop reading it, not ask posters to stop posting.

Getting sick of moaning about him all the time anyway. What are the 7 stages of wanting a manager gone? I'm past anger, I think I'm into apathy for a bit now.

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Thanks for the reply. I agree with much of what you have posted in your middle three paragraphs, although on an internet football forum you can hardly be expecting a great deal of rationality. There will always be a herd mentality too.

It seems to me that your position though is to defend him; not advocate anything he is actually doing.  Your first paragraph is quite telling in that regard.

Is there anyone out there who is an actual advocate for what he has done/is trying to do? Please ignore his Rotherham record, and that he seems a genuine guy, and that he has only had nearly 12 months. What in his time at Derby makes you think he is the ‘future’ - is he actually a good coach, strategist, recruiter, motivator, etc.

My eagerness to rebuff what I see are irrational criticisms of Warne in some instances probably do give the impression that I am trying to defend him. 

Not that I'm the White Knight on an internet forum so really isn't my business maybe I should just let some of the comments go as I'm as much part of the problem if I keep replying then as a by product bumping the threads I've alluded to.

For avoidance of doubt whether Warne is a genuine guy is neither here nor there for me, he gets measured by results so being everyone's mate isn't even a factor.

Cynically if I was Clowes I'd be thinking this guy gets teams out of this league but then gets them relegated again so let's get him to get us up then look for an upgrade when we are in the Championship. Getting there is the stumbling block.

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why not?

Interesting point made about choosing Warne over Rosenior by Clowes. 'Duty of care' it was called.

"The club has been reviewing and assessing the managerial position since David Clowes took over and Liam Rosenior has been fantastic. They have a great relationship. The club has a duty of care towards Liam's career as someone taking his first steps in managing and what might happen to Liam if it didn't work out played a part in the decision.

Paul Warne brings experience and now is his time for a big job at a big club. Other clubs were after him, both those with and those without a manager currently. David Clowes liked how he treats players, and journalists, encouraging everyone to get the best out of themselves."

It seems obvious to some/many that Warne is struggling in his 'big job at a big club', will there also be a consideration of 'duty of care' to him? Some of his media interviews have been little short of 'desperate' at times have they not? Is he suffering and not dealing well with the pressures that managing 'a big club' brings?

Clowes was obviously alluding to the fact that given the great relationship the club had with Rosenoir but that he was a rookie manager he didn't really want to be the person to sack him if things went toes up.

The important difference that you've not mentioned was that Rosenoir was an interim manager which by default is temporary, Warne is on a 4 year contract. 

Removing an interim is far easier then paying off a 4 year contract for a club which is skint. 

[Jimbo Ram]

14 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Getting sick of moaning about him all the time anyway. What are the 7 stages of wanting a manager gone? I'm past anger, I think I'm into apathy for a bit now.

Is the apathy partly due to what we are being dished up on the pitch 🤔

[brady1993]

19 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

What do you see Tyler? Genuine question. Let’s not focus on his past, or that he is a nice man. What have you seen in his (nearly) 12 months at Derby that makes you think Warne is a good coach, strategist, recruiter, motivator, etc. 

That's the thing that gets me. Where's the selling point? Most of the defence of him has been through non-negative arguments rather than positive ones; needs more time, need to aim for stability or he needs better players. 

To be clear I don't think he's a bad manager. I just don't think he's a good fit long term and it's not working for him in the short term.

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

My eagerness to rebuff what I see are irrational criticisms of Warne in some instances probably do give the impression that I am trying to defend him. 

Not that I'm the White Knight on an internet forum so really isn't my business maybe I should just let some of the comments go as I'm as much part of the problem if I keep replying then as a by product bumping the threads I've alluded to.

For avoidance of doubt whether Warne is a genuine guy is neither here nor there for me, he gets measured by results so being everyone's mate isn't even a factor.

Cynically if I was Clowes I'd be thinking this guy gets teams out of this league but then gets them relegated again so let's get him to get us up then look for an upgrade when we are in the Championship. Getting there is the stumbling block.

Thanks Tyler. I really would like the debate to be widened. It is one way traffic on here at the moment, in spite of the poll stats.

Can some of the 262 post why Warne has their support? @Brailsford Ram posted a week ago that he voted ‘not even close to questioning his future’ because there was no way David Clowes would sack him anyway. The question wasn’t where does Clowes stand with Paul Warne, it was where do YOU stand with Paul Warne. I would like to know what other fans are seeing that I am not - what has Warne done/is doing whilst at Derby that puts you in a position where you are happy to give him at least this season to not be reviewed on his performance.

[sage]

17 minutes ago, Archied said:

For me the clock starts on warne from after the international break , I believe we have a squad with enough depth and variety to get it right , the window is closed and everybody knows where they are and most importantly to my mind we have enough players in midfield to be finding the right balance , no reason we can’t be a team capable of mixing it up in how we attack and press and being able to pass and move  far far better ,

my concern is Bradley , is he shot or just a nightmare start , and Collins should never come on for waghorn or any of our forwards unless it’s emergency, I like the bloke but I’m just so tired of him giving away stupid fouls that take the pressure off opposition defences at crucial times and sadly he’s not quite up to the job 

This is roughly where I am but from a more critical base point. He has 2 weeks to prepare for 5 games of which we should win 3 and more importantly look like we have a coherent pattern of play.

[SSD]

I don't blame DC for appointing Warne, people who seem to be pointing the finger of angry power at the owner need to take a hard look in the mirror. On paper, he has to be on of the best managers for League One. He was available and we've made a big football commitment to PW and his coaching team. Unless results went completely south, the chap is going nowhere. Unfortunately I think for this team, I'm struggling to see a long term progression under this manager.

Paul Warne plays football to get results, he claims he wants entertainment but from what I've witnessed and many Rotherham supporters commenting online, this reality is a fantasy. Your old fashioned pragmatic type of manager simply does not last long at a bigger football club nowadays. Look at the top 2 teams who went up last season. Both played super football and deservedly went to the Championship. Only in complete desperation (cough Leeds) will an owner turn to a pragmatic manager to keep them from being relegated. It's a short term goal, to keep the club afloat and prevent the results from becoming worse. It's definitely not for building success longer term in the modern game. And ultimately I think this is where we'll go wrong. Supporters don't want to see pragmatic football season after season, that's not the way football works anymore. Style of play does matter to me, maybe I'm in the minority but I want to see Derby County try and play something eye catching. After all the crap we've endured, I would love nothing more than some crisp passing and build up play and blow some teams out of the water.

Warne had the chance to evolve the playing style over the summer and after a few games, it's like watching the same team from 6 months ago. I really want him to shut me up, prove to me he can play exciting counter attacking football most weeks. But he hasn't. Granted, he's got plenty more opportunities and I've seen us start worse and still had a good season. I would love it if he came out firing and we played the sexy exciting football. Sadly in 6 months I've seen 2 good performances. One was the final game of last season and the other was last weekend. 

He really needs rethink the situation or more people will unfortunately start to lose patience.

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Interesting post but there’s no chance in hell we could attract Graham Potter.

We'd think we had until we realized we'd actually got Brian Potter.....

[Caerphilly Ram]

10 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Thanks Tyler. I really would like the debate to be widened. It is one way traffic on here at the moment, in spite of the poll stats.

Can some of the 262 post why Warne has their support? @Brailsford Ram posted a week ago that he voted ‘not even close to questioning his future’ because there was no way David Clowes would sack him anyway. The question wasn’t where does Clowes stand with Paul Warne, it was where do YOU stand with Paul Warne. I would like to know what other fans are seeing that I am not - what has Warne done/is doing whilst at Derby that puts you in a position where you are happy to give him at least this season to not be reviewed on his performance.

Sadly the apathy some feel towards Warne is equivalent to my apathy on this subject. The forum has become an oddly binary place where you’re quickly labelled as one thing or the other (Warne in or out) with seemingly little room for grey areas. I’ve contributed to that with posts challenging other people or at least attempting to present some objectivity by sharing facts where people have misremembered/misquoted/misinterpreted/misrepresented on certain interviews/comments/subjects.

I voted the end of the season. And challenged yourself and a couple of others on your interpretation of the poll. Partly because I don’t particularly see myself as “supportive of Warne”, just that I don’t hate the bloke and want him sacked either. I share the same concerns others do about his tactics, and have been banging a drum since last season about his in game management driving me nuts. I’ve listened to what he says he wants to do for the club and with the team in interviews and I’m onboard, then I fail to see it realised on the pitch and I’m confused. I commented late last season that I think Warne intends to be more “league one Klopp” than “league one Guardiola”, and if the results showed that I’d be content. There are different ways of playing football that garner varying responses from fans, lots are clamouring for possession, I prefer a Klopp style of football where there’s some possession but not just for possessions sake and hear Warne talking as if that’s the type of game he wants to implement, but then it’s neither one nor the other.

BUT my stance on the whole thing, is that I am one of those who is happy to have a club, I try not to get myself wound up about things I can’t control, and am content to have a club to follow through thick and thin after what the club went through and my own personal experiences over the last few years. I follow Derby regardless and will do whatever league, whatever manager. Now this isn’t me saying I’m better than others, cause I’m not, this isn’t me calling other people out if they think differently cause they’re entitled to do so, but it’s how I feel. So I’m not pro- Warne, I’m not anti-Warne, I’m it is what it is for now, I’m happy to see if the bloke can finally deliver on what he says, and if he can’t then it’ll change anyway and the world will keep turning and I’ll keep on being a Ram. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

18 minutes ago, sage said:

This is roughly where I am but from a more critical base point. He has 2 weeks to prepare for 5 games of which we should win 3 and more importantly look like we have a coherent pattern of play.

So that'll be two weeks running round and round in the hope we'll last an extra 10 mins before looking shot.....

The last word in the above paragraph may or may not be a typo.....

[IlsonDerby]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

One point before I start - I've never blown smoke up Warnes behind to say that he's a great coach, motivator etc - I just don't consider that he's nearly as bad as some of the folks on here state he is. Therein lies the difference. 

Digression over, what do I see? I see a number of repetitive posts on here from a hard core of posters which then in rotation get liked by the same group like some form of Eurovision song contest voting parade. 

I see totally identical threads start up making the same points with the introduction I know there is already a thread about this but.........

I see that the poll suggests that the majority of posters are in favour of giving Warne until at least Xmas but if you landed from the planet Zog you wouldn't believe that as the same protagonists as above are the most vocal on here. 

Apart from that who knows. 

I’ll stop repeating the same boring posts when Warne stops sending out a team playing the same turgid boring s****. 
 

We’re in league one. We have probably the largest wage budget in the division. If the largest budget doesn’t produce the best results then the manager is failing at his job. Now given the caveats of what has happened over the last 18 months I wouldn’t expect promotion, I wouldn’t expect to win the league but I’d expect us to try and play games as the dominating team rather than giving up possession against every team we play. I don’t think that’s entitlement. I think it’s seeing what can be achieved with less than what we have and wanting that for us. 
 

Whilst good results are a pacifier for those of us who want to see dynamic performances on the pitch (or at least anything resembling clear patterns of play within and without possession) the loss of the results leaves the performances bare. 
 

Why can’t we play like Plymouth? Why can’t we play like posh? Why can’t we play like Bolton? What is stopping us playing like Barnsley did under Duff last year? I would say Ipswich too but they spent huge amounts so left them out. 
 

 

[IlsonDerby]

9 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Sadly the apathy some feel towards Warne is equivalent to my apathy on this subject. The forum has become an oddly binary place where you’re quickly labelled as one thing or the other (Warne in or out) with seemingly little room for grey areas. I’ve contributed to that with posts challenging other people or at least attempting to present some objectivity by sharing facts where people have misremembered/misquoted/misinterpreted/misrepresented on certain interviews/comments/subjects.

I voted the end of the season. And challenged yourself and a couple of others on your interpretation of the poll. Partly because I don’t particularly see myself as “supportive of Warne”, just that I don’t hate the bloke and want him sacked either. I share the same concerns others do about his tactics, and have been banging a drum since last season about his in game management driving me nuts. I’ve listened to what he says he wants to do for the club and with the team in interviews and I’m onboard, then I fail to see it realised on the pitch and I’m confused. I commented late last season that I think Warne intends to be more “league one Klopp” than “league one Guardiola”, and if the results showed that I’d be content. There are different ways of playing football that garner varying responses from fans, lots are clamouring for possession, I prefer a Klopp style of football where there’s some possession but not just for possessions sake and hear Warne talking as if that’s the type of game he wants to implement, but then it’s neither one nor the other.

BUT my stance on the whole thing, is that I am one of those who is happy to have a club, I try not to get myself wound up about things I can’t control, and am content to have a club to follow through thick and thin after what the club went through and my own personal experiences over the last few years. I follow Derby regardless and will do whatever league, whatever manager. Now this isn’t me saying I’m better than others, cause I’m not, this isn’t me calling other people out if they think differently cause they’re entitled to do so, but it’s how I feel. So I’m not pro- Warne, I’m not anti-Warne, I’m it is what it is for now, I’m happy to see if the bloke can finally deliver on what he says, and if he can’t then it’ll change anyway and the world will keep turning and I’ll keep on being a Ram. 

Despite my vocal criticisms of Warne on here, and to the surprise of yourself and Tyler and a few others, I’d consider myself in the grey area. 

I’ll explain. I go into every game hoping that I’m about to see what he spoke about in his first few interviews. The football he spoke about. Exciting the fans and playing on the front foot. Honestly I’m willing him on to make me look like a mug every single time we kick off. 
 

My issue is that within 10/15 minutes it’s clear it’s the same old dross of let the other team dominate possession, try and break on them in a gung-ho approach which then leaves us open to be sliced apart with bang average counter attacks. 
 

I want him to be successful. I want him to hold up his end of the deal for what we should expect to see on the pitch but it’s coming up to a year and we look (on performances) like we’re going backwards. 

[May Contain Nuts]

46 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

That's the thing that gets me. Where's the selling point? Most of the defence of him has been through non-negative arguments rather than positive ones; needs more time, need to aim for stability or he needs better players. 

To be clear I don't think he's a bad manager. I just don't think he's a good fit long term and it's not working for him in the short term.

Indeed.

Similarly, what gets me is people with barely-there opinions they're either unwilling or unable to share or expand on in any real detail going on to criticise people who do have strong opinions for voicing them.

One thing I disagree on though - I do actually now think he's a bad manager, sadly.

Not a terrible, irredeemable one who can't produce a successful team because clearly he can, just one who falls down on so many measures of what a good manager is (IMO) that I can't honestly justify calling him one, the balance is in favour of bad.

I didn't think this prior to this season because I thought and hoped that he'd use last season as a learning experience. Putting opinion aside, I'd say there's strong objective evidence that he has not, and that's what is most frustrating.

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but I can't be doing with splinters up my bum!

Edited September 3, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Archied]

37 minutes ago, sage said:

This is roughly where I am but from a more critical base point. He has 2 weeks to prepare for 5 games of which we should win 3 and more importantly look like we have a coherent pattern of play.

Yep I’m happy with that , my view as I’ve stated and this is also in reply to @iRam is the question of whether he can adapt and grow when taking the step to derby from Rotherham and all the pressure and expectations that brings and I now think the clock starts as he has brought players in , we have depth and variety, he picks it up and runs with it or he loses his way and crumbles , this is nothing new in terms of football and management step ups , look at Nathan Jones , kind of happened to Eddie Howe going from Bournemouth to Burnley , I don’t think warne is a bad manager and I don’t think if he fails at derby he will be a bad manager forever more and not have any success again in the future,

it always comes down to right time , right place ,right fit in these things , I hoping it turns out right simply because I’m derby and I want us winning and getting as high as we can , managers come , have they’re time and go , the world keeps spinning and clubs go on 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

if you landed from the planet Zog you wouldn't believe that as the same protagonists as above are the most vocal on here. 

Apart from that who knows. 

Those aliens from planet Zog would have zapped PW and installed their own Manager, Welcome Paul Warnz

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Clowes was obviously alluding to the fact that given the great relationship the club had with Rosenoir but that he was a rookie manager he didn't really want to be the person to sack him if things went toes up.

The important difference that you've not mentioned was that Rosenoir was an interim manager which by default is temporary, Warne is on a 4 year contract. 

Removing an interim is far easier then paying off a 4 year contract for a club which is skint. 

The club isn't skint. We gave Warne a good budget. If Clowes now choses to use some of that budget to pay off Warne - not all at once though! - that is a valid choice.

And as for the 'duty of care' line, it's there for all employees surely not just 'novices'. If someone is being 'affected' by their job, then that has to be considered by their employer. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by RoyMac5

[BramcoteRam84]

Need to sort this poll out. Can’t vote again, I want Warne out for yesterdays result but then want to be able to change my vote to not even close to the sack when we beat Pompey