Derby vs Fleetwood - Match Thread

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, Andicis said:

We wouldn't have been relying on favours if we'd beaten some of the bottom teams we'd dropped points against. That is factual. Our record against the bottom teams was better than playoff rivals, that actually doesn't matter at all. Beating Peterborough and losing to Fleetwood still yields the same number of points ultimately. The "inability to beat your rivals" is also b*******. 

Yes it wields 3 points. But beating Posh means that you aren’t then relying on Posh to lose to Fleetwood.

In a trio of fixtures between Derby, Posh and Fleetwood, you would much rather beat Posh and lose to Fleetwood rather than the other way around. Why? Because then you aren’t relying on Fleetwood to take points from Posh. It’s why they call these games six-pointers. 

On the flip side here are just a few from Derby over the years

Billy D season we finished third behind Sunderland and Brum. They both did the double over us that season. Reverse the fixtures and Derby finish top.

Steve Mac season we finished 3rd and Burnley finished second. They did the double over us that season. Reverse the results and Derby finish second, and Burnley finish 3rd.

Derby’s inability to beat decent sides last season was our downfall. Our record against bottom half sides was the 4th best in the league. Better than Bolton and Posh.

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

I don't think anyone is denying the importance of taking points against your main rivals but your inference that failing to do so last season was why we missed out is not the sole reason - one more point against any other team and we'd have made it.

 

But it’s the main reason. Our form against bottom half sides was brilliant. Why look at that and think we should have improved when it’s glaringly obvious where our fault last season lied.

It’s like if you run a 400m race. You run the first 200m in 19 seconds, setting a world record for 200m, but run the second 200m in 26 seconds and thus finishing the race 5th. And then afterwards claiming if only you had run the first 200m in 18 seconds you would have finished 1st. Quite clearly the first 200m wasn’t the problem…

Just as Derby’s form against bottom 12 sides last season wasn’t the problem. 

[SSD]

For some inexplicable reason after the match, I still came away feeling annoyed. I don't know why, I can't get my head around it. We won a home game though, box ticked.

Massive positive was Liam Thompson, I thought he was superb and exactly what we've missed in midfield, energy. Bird, Hourihane and Smith isn't going to work because they don't compliment each other's styles. Thompson is different. Aggressive with and without the ball, no fear. Difference maker, has to keep playing him because our midfield has no fight in a battle. Waggy getting another goal and a nice finish easy finish too. He's very comfortable at this level, he'll definitely get over 15 goals, what a good accident (massive piece of luck) that might turn out to be for Warne. He would have never bothered to look at him if it wasn't for Fozzy.

Negatives, we still looked pretty ropey on the ball and Fleetwood should have scored at least one goal. The keeper and the woodwork saved us big time. Fleetwood having so many clear cut chances scares me because I really don't think they played that well either. Why Warne switched to a back 5 near end to protect a one goal lead still baffles me a day later, this invited Fleetwood to create more chances rather than Derby being positive and getting the ball forward.

I'm a stubborn person, I don't rate Warne and his tripe "football" to be honest. I'm keeping the comfort and hope because he is a promotion specialist. Regardless of my opinion, I cannot deny his successes in the past. He can get it over the line. This is why at matches I'll cheer the team and back him to the moon if it gets us out of playing teams like Fleetwood again next season.

[IlsonDerby]

13 hours ago, Andicis said:

Had we beaten some of the bottom teams we dropped points against, we would have been in the playoffs. You are hyper fixating on this narrative that you've been parroting since the end of last season, but it doesn't make it any more true the more you say it. 

He’s right though - realistically we aren’t going up too 2 so if we are to go up we’re going to need positive results against 2 of the top 6 in high pressure matches. Our results against the top teams last year suggest that out of all of those at the top end of the table we’d struggle to do this the most. Yes we need to pick up results against those we expect to but we can’t be being battered by Barnsley etc again 

[WestStandStartTheBounce]

15 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

I would drop hourihane he is passager and lose the ball to easley and puts us into trouble and take captain off him and give to craig Forsyth. 

 

I agree. I couldn't quite believe the love in for him on Radio Derby. I don't see it with Hourihane. He seems to have no influence on the game. He made one shocking pass, pinged it blindly into the center of midfield from the left, i couldn't fathom what he was trying to do. He runs around a bit, rarely tackles (although Radio derby were trying to suggest the goal only came about because he made a routine tackle in the middle of the park that Cashin would have got anyway), can't seem to head anything and yes he takes the set pieces but I wouldn't say he's that great at it ( how many goals have come from them). However we don't really have any other options in CM, Maybe Sibley. I think he's living off his history and his name. If he was someone who had come up through the academy he wouldn't be getting a game. 

[Premier ram]

15 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

He might have done but 9 times out of 10 he lose the ball and when does pass the ball normal stright to opersition players.

Plus Rooney is the better player than him and laim Thompson.

Can’t agree with this B4

[Srg]

4 minutes ago, WestStandStartTheBounce said:

I agree. I couldn't quite believe the love in for him on Radio Derby. I don't see it with Hourihane. He seems to have no influence on the game. He made one shocking pass, pinged it blindly into the center of midfield from the left, i couldn't fathom what he was trying to do. He runs around a bit, rarely tackles (although Radio derby were trying to suggest the goal only came about because he made a routine tackle in the middle of the park that Cashin would have got anyway), can't seem to head anything and yes he takes the set pieces but I wouldn't say he's that great at it ( how many goals have come from them). However we don't really have any other options in CM, Maybe Sibley. I think he's living off his history and his name. If he was someone who had come up through the academy he wouldn't be getting a game. 

Was this before or after Ed Dawes' bizarre rant around negativity? The negativity that his commentary often causes? The one radio phone ins absolutely thrive off of? Apparently, if you win a game in any style or fashion then you should be delighted and every single player is beyond reproach. Was only a month or so ago Dawes was dragging up rumours that 99% of the fan base had never even heard of directly with David Clowes, or does that not count as being a negative s***-stirrer?

Particularly his defence of Hourihane was odd. He had a poor game, again, and made one tackle (let's ignore the countless he didn't). Citing he's created the most chances in the league... with nearly all of them coming from him taking every set piece we get.

[Andicis]

49 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

He’s right though - realistically we aren’t going up too 2 so if we are to go up we’re going to need positive results against 2 of the top 6 in high pressure matches. Our results against the top teams last year suggest that out of all of those at the top end of the table we’d struggle to do this the most. Yes we need to pick up results against those we expect to but we can’t be being battered by Barnsley etc again 

We also beat Barnsley at home. And we beat Bolton, and we beat Peterborough. Wednesday was the only team in the playoffs that did better in the head to heads against us. It's purely Bris' narrative. 

[Jubbs]

54 minutes ago, Andicis said:

We also beat Barnsley at home. And we beat Bolton, and we beat Peterborough. Wednesday was the only team in the playoffs that did better in the head to heads against us. It's purely Bris' narrative. 

2 of those 3 came under Rosenior. Warne won 2/15 against teams in the top half.

[Reggie Greenwood]

1 hour ago, WestStandStartTheBounce said:

I agree. I couldn't quite believe the love in for him on Radio Derby. I don't see it with Hourihane. He seems to have no influence on the game. He made one shocking pass, pinged it blindly into the center of midfield from the left, i couldn't fathom what he was trying to do. He runs around a bit, rarely tackles (although Radio derby were trying to suggest the goal only came about because he made a routine tackle in the middle of the park that Cashin would have got anyway), can't seem to head anything and yes he takes the set pieces but I wouldn't say he's that great at it ( how many goals have come from them). However we don't really have any other options in CM, Maybe Sibley. I think he's living off his history and his name. If he was someone who had come up through the academy he wouldn't be getting a game. 

 

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

 

8 from set pieces. need to do a little more than just take dead balls.

[Reggie Greenwood]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

8 from set pieces. need to do a little more than just take dead balls.

Don’t they count then ? 
Beckham made a career from doing just that 😅

Edited August 21, 2023 by Reggie Greenwood

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Don’t they count then ? 
Beckham made a career from doing just that 😅

It's a bit difficult to know who would do better though when they don't get chance. I thought Sibs corners and deadballs were pretty good.

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Don’t they count then ? 
Beckham made a career from doing just that 😅

If you thought Beckham only took set pieces then I dunno what to tell you.

Point would be, Joe Ward (pre-injury) would get similar numbers, yet was much more valuable from open play. If you get someone who is better from open play than Hourihane, he should be taking his place. Currently, he's one of several who isn't showing enough.

[Reggie Greenwood]

3 minutes ago, Srg said:

If you thought Beckham only took set pieces then I dunno what to tell you.

Point would be, Joe Ward (pre-injury) would get similar numbers, yet was much more valuable from open play. If you get someone who is better from open play than Hourihane, he should be taking his place. Currently, he's one of several who isn't showing enough.

That stat was from before Saturday’s game so no one had better numbers. 
He isn’t Messi but more effective than some give him credit for an easy whipping boy maybe. 
 

Beckham one trick pony who helped England get knocked out of two World Cups. Getting sent off for petulance in one and ducking out of a tackle V Brazil that cost a goal. 
 

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Don’t they count then ? 
Beckham made a career from doing just that 😅

Ward prowes anyone?

[Jubbs]

1 hour ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

 

Yet from open play chances (per 90), he ranks 95th, that's shocking.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

 

Open play key passes per 90 for Derby:

1. Wilson - 2.4
2. Bird - 2.0
3. Mendez-Laing - 1.6
4. Thompson - 1.6
5. Washington - 1.6
6. Ward - 1.4
7. Hourihane - 1.3
8. Waghorn - 0.9
9. Forsyth - 0.8
10. Collins - 0.7
11. Nelson - 0.5
12. Others - 0.0

[Srg]

1 hour ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

That stat was from before Saturday’s game so no one had better numbers. 
He isn’t Messi but more effective than some give him credit for an easy whipping boy maybe. 
 

Beckham one trick pony who helped England get knocked out of two World Cups. Getting sent off for petulance in one and ducking out of a tackle V Brazil that cost a goal. 
 

You've shown yourself to be pretty clueless right there, haven't you?

Sure, Real Madrid signed a one trick pony. Sure.

[Ambitious]

With Hourihane, regardless of anything else he has proven over the course of his career that he can score goals and is an asset from set-pieces. Smith and Bird just don't, neither does Thompson. They can play well, but ultimately you're getting no tangible output from them in terms of production. 

It's why Hourihane will and has to remain in the team. We need legs around him, but he's the one player who I just don't think you can drop as he can win you a game with a little bit of quality and quality is something we lack.