Should we be patient? If so, how does it improve?

[Walkley Ram]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's your opinion that they are less than the sum of their parts. My opinion is that the parts aren't very good and that they are exactly the sum of that. 

We're in division 3. Not like the rest of the league has much quality either.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's your opinion that they are less than the sum of their parts. My opinion is that the parts aren't very good and that they are exactly the sum of that. 

Fair enough, I disagree on that. The players we have can and should amount to more and I believe the root cause of that to be the manager.

[dantheram]

43 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Warne's coaching is the reason that Mendez-Laing doesn't put his head up, or Wildsmith doesn't catch it. These poor mature footballers cannot be expected to take responsibility for their own performances. Bradley and Nelson have been a disgrace, and I don't buy for one second that Warne is coaching them to defend so poorly. 

I’d drive him back to Luton, what did we see in him? 

[Walkley Ram]

1 minute ago, dantheram said:

I’d drive him back to Luton, what did we see in him? 

He was free.

[Jimbo Ram]

46 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Warne's coaching is the reason that Mendez-Laing doesn't put his head up, or Wildsmith doesn't catch it. These poor mature footballers cannot be expected to take responsibility for their own performances. Bradley and Nelson have been a disgrace, and I don't buy for one second that Warne is coaching them to defend so poorly. 

Who signed them 😉

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Who signed them 😉

Read my other 47 replies on it. Ceebs to type the same thing again. 

[Leeds Ram]

He's mismanaging the team he put together. Unless he ditches the formation and style of play, then it won't improve. I hate watching us, this season has already been bloody painful and then I'm reminded there are still 43 games of this to go. If you don't change anything then you can't expect results to change either. We've been performing poorly for 4 months now. 

Warne needs to go to a flat back 4 and start playing a more possession-based style. We need to start controlling games, playing 1 touch quick tempo through the middle of the pitch. Start Kane and Elder to give us options out wide to cross with Smith/rooney sitting in front of a back 2 of Forsyth and Cashin providing a midfield screen to stop counter attacks and recycle the ball. 

[CornwallRam]

I think the problem with Warneball is that we don't seem to be able to play it.

My understanding of the manager's tactics is -

Get the ball forward quickly and attack with aggression at pace but with the extra centre back providing a bit of a shield for when we lose the ball.

Use the wingbacks for width and get early crosses into the box, with two strikers and at least one midfielder trying to get on the end of them.

Press high, hard and as a team to force errors and get possession high up the pitch. The extra defender again provides cover for when the press is broken.

Most free kicks and corners driven into the box, where our well drilled players make the most of the opportunities. 

Train hard to give our players superior fitness.

Have a strongly supportive team ethic so players do not fear making mistakes and bust a gut to cover for each other.

 

To me, that all makes sense. The problems are that we aren't doing very much of it and too many of the new recruits don't appear suited to it.

Someone said we're fickle as fans. No we're not, we're just fans. Like all fans we want results, good football (whatever you define that as) and to feel the team are giving their all. Ideally a manager gives you all three, but most fans will remain supportive if any two of those are achieved. Eventually every fan will turn anti if none are achieved, and that's where we are right now. Paul Warne needs to change things very quickly or he'll be Warne out.

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

27 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think the problem with Warneball is that we don't seem to be able to play it.

My understanding of the manager's tactics is -

Get the ball forward quickly and attack with aggression at pace but with the extra centre back providing a bit of a shield for when we lose the ball.

Use the wingbacks for width and get early crosses into the box, with two strikers and at least one midfielder trying to get on the end of them.

Press high, hard and as a team to force errors and get possession high up the pitch. The extra defender again provides cover for when the press is broken.

Most free kicks and corners driven into the box, where our well drilled players make the most of the opportunities. 

Train hard to give our players superior fitness.

Have a strongly supportive team ethic so players do not fear making mistakes and bust a gut to cover for each other.

 

To me, that all makes sense. The problems are that we aren't doing very much of it and too many of the new recruits don't appear suited to it.

Someone said we're fickle as fans. No we're not, we're just fans. Like all fans we want results, good football (whatever you define that as) and to feel the team are giving their all. Ideally a manager gives you all three, but most fans will remain supportive if any two of those are achieved. Eventually every fan will turn anti if none are achieved, and that's where we are right now. Paul Warne needs to change things very quickly or he'll be Warne out.

 

Good summary. I said a few times last season I could see what Warne wanted the team to do, I felt confident he was bringing the players in the play that way during the summer, but the reality seems very different in that we currently aren’t able to play the intended way with any sign of success. Eric Steele summed it up earlier when he said Warne just needs to get back to basics and winning games in the short term then continue working on his seemingly preferred method in time. Saw another poster on here suggest the 3 at the back for away games and 4 at the back at home which makes some sense too. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Good summary. I said a few times last season I could see what Warne wanted the team to do, I felt confident he was bringing the players in the play that way during the summer, but the reality seems very different in that we currently aren’t able to play the intended way with any sign of success. Eric Steele summed it up earlier when he said Warne just needs to get back to basics and winning games in the short term then continue working on his seemingly preferred method in time. Saw another poster on here suggest the 3 at the back for away games and 4 at the back at home which makes some sense too. 

But he was doing that last season until he was given the chance to bring his own players in .  Now he has them bar maybe a loan, but I think that needed to made for quality prior to kick off rather than after an awful start, why should he need to revert again unless he's made terrible choices for a system he's pushing. Its a a total pooshow

[Caerphilly Ram]

4 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

But he was doing that last season until he was given the chance to bring his own players in .  Now he has them bar maybe a loan, but I think that needed to made for quality prior to kick off rather than after an awful start, why should he need to revert again unless he's made terrible choices for a system he's pushing. Its a a total pooshow

Because it’s not working. And if Warne wants to succeed at Derby, or keep his job as some are questioning, then he needs to find the answers. It’s all well and good us getting it off our chests on a forum, that is of course the purpose of this space, so we can discuss and dissect the good and the bad of the club, Warne doesn’t have the luxury of moaning about it like we all do, he has to get on with sorting it. So rather than focusing on what the problem is I want to see him focus on the solution to it, which most seem to agree is to change the approach in terms of team formation and how they play. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Because it’s not working. And if Warne wants to succeed at Derby, or keep his job as some are questioning, then he needs to find the answers. It’s all well and good us getting it off our chests on a forum, that is of course the purpose of this space, so we can discuss and dissect the good and the bad of the club, Warne doesn’t have the luxury of moaning about it like we all do, he has to get on with sorting it. So rather than focusing on what the problem is I want to see him focus on the solution to it, which most seem to agree is to change the approach in terms of team formation and how they play. 

The only player he's brought in that looks competent in the formation he wants is Ward but he's a poor out and out fullback. He won't sort it in my opinion.  The lack of pace and midfield aggression which was so wanting, especially with Knight leaving and McGoldricks ability to not just score goals but retain the ball to compensate for pedestrian play to allow 'catch up' has not been replaced. 

[sage]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

The worst thing DC or PW have done this summer is mention budgets.

As that seems to have either set some unrealistic expectations amongst supporters and also caused the largest amount of second guessing I've ever known on here.

And we still don't know what the budget actually was.

But it still doesn't stop poorly informed comments. 

Really? That's the worst thing? Have you watched our games?

 

I see what you mean about poorly informed comments though

Edited August 15, 2023 by sage

[G-Ram]

You can be patient when you see some sort of improvement, style of play being implemented etc. At the min its diabolical. There is no point in being patient when the man is clearly the wrong person for the job

[TomTom92]

Feels like when Cocu was in charge were a nice bloke is being backed with patience because we’ve been trigger happy before. 
 
I was glad when PW came in for Rosenior. But at least under LR you could see a vague plan. Our home record was good and he appeared to make decent signings. 
 
In all seriousness what are PW strengths? For me he’s tactically inept, poor in the transfer market, doesn’t appear to be a worldie coach and man management which I can half see as a strength is under scrutiny after his post match comments against Blackpool. 
 
Problem we’ve got is if we sack PW, whoever comes in doesn’t really have time to assess the squad before deadline day. Plus we’ve spunked all of our budget on PW players. The only thing sacking PW would do would give the new man the perfect excuse to lower expectations as it wouldn’t be his squad. 
 
I reckon truth be told DC is seriously considering pulling the trigger. But an early shot means A) he got it wrong and B) Mel x2. Depends whether DC cares what people think or not. 

[Jourdan]

4 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

You can be patient when you see some sort of improvement, style of play being implemented etc. At the min its diabolical. There is no point in being patient when the man is clearly the wrong person for the job

Our circumstances - trying to rehabilitate after being in financial ruin - dictate the level of patience though, and let’s be honest, we’re in no position to be rash.

Ripping up Warne’s contract will cost money. Dismissing his backroom staff will cost money. Appointing a new manager and his coaching team will cost money. Paying compensation if they are contracted will cost money. Bringing in players for the new manager will cost money.

Money we seemingly don’t have or if we do, we are either not prepared or not permitted to spend it. So which managers would be queuing up to replace Warne in any case?

Warne has been in the job for less than 12 months. He has three years left on a four year contract. He is not getting it right at the moment, that’s plain to see, but surely Clowes will be thinking: maybe things will look different in 20-30 games?

We have to stay calm and Warne has to step up and show what he can do. It’s a 46 game season, not a 4 game season, after all.

[G-Ram]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Our circumstances - trying to rehabilitate after being in financial ruin - dictate the level of patience though, and let’s be honest, we’re in no position to be rash.

Ripping up Warne’s contract will cost money. Dismissing his backroom staff will cost money. Appointing a new manager and his coaching team will cost money. Paying compensation if they are contracted will cost money. Bringing in players for the new manager will cost money.

Money we seemingly don’t have or if we do, we are either not prepared or not permitted to spend it. So which managers would be queuing up to replace Warne in any case?

Warne has been in the job for less than 12 months. He has three years left on a four year contract. He is not getting it right at the moment, that’s plain to see, but surely Clowes will be thinking: maybe things will look different in 20-30 games?

We have to stay calm and Warne has to step up and show what he can do. It’s a 46 game season, not a 4 game season, after all.

But letting him sign more players costs money, continuing to get it wrong costs money, the longer we stay in this division costs money. 

I dont think its rash to get rid of him now. He was poor back end of last season & we've started even worse 

[TomTom92]

7 hours ago, Andicis said:

Didn't we just sign a new head of recruitment? How involved was Warne with recruitment? Once again, people make assumptions and then berate Warne based on their own (probably incorrect) assumption. 

Looking at our signings they stink of Warne. Plus if he has to vet them to see if they’re ‘good people’ then ultimately he has a part to play on the off chance it is all Mark Thomas’ work.

[TomTom92]

6 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

I think the problem with Warneball is that we don't seem to be able to play it.

My understanding of the manager's tactics is -

Get the ball forward quickly and attack with aggression at pace but with the extra centre back providing a bit of a shield for when we lose the ball.

Use the wingbacks for width and get early crosses into the box, with two strikers and at least one midfielder trying to get on the end of them.

Press high, hard and as a team to force errors and get possession high up the pitch. The extra defender again provides cover for when the press is broken.

Most free kicks and corners driven into the box, where our well drilled players make the most of the opportunities. 

Train hard to give our players superior fitness.

Have a strongly supportive team ethic so players do not fear making mistakes and bust a gut to cover for each other.

 

To me, that all makes sense. The problems are that we aren't doing very much of it and too many of the new recruits don't appear suited to it.

Someone said we're fickle as fans. No we're not, we're just fans. Like all fans we want results, good football (whatever you define that as) and to feel the team are giving their all. Ideally a manager gives you all three, but most fans will remain supportive if any two of those are achieved. Eventually every fan will turn anti if none are achieved, and that's where we are right now. Paul Warne needs to change things very quickly or he'll be Warne out.

 

Worth noting that our squad has more than a few oldies, add that to the new stoppage time rules and gas out Warne ball doesn’t seem that sustainable.

[Gaspode]

14 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Worth noting that our squad has more than a few oldies, add that to the new stoppage time rules and gas out Warne ball doesn’t seem that sustainable.

The bigger issue was that some of them looked knackered after 20 minutes…..