Should we be patient? If so, how does it improve?

[BramcoteRam84]

Sounds from the presser Warne is still up for the fight. I’m not going to be knee jerk and jump on the everything is going to be a disaster and Warne needs to go now bandwagon after 3 games!! (Last season is done and wasn’t the dross everyone seems to think especially at home - I do accept we served up dross away but we’ve had one away game this season and won 3-0!). It’s too early to judge - especially given we’re still working on signings!! 
 

People asserting Warne has blown the budget on his signings and we haven’t improved - one it’s too early to judge, two has anyone given any consideration whatsoever to the fact a huge chunk of the budget was committed on signings like Hourihane, Smith, Collins, Barkhuizen, Mendez-Laing all signed prior to Warne joining, all of whom are probably in the top 5 or 6 earners in the club, therefore how much wriggle room does he actually have.

Only way he can stem the tide of growing toxicity is getting some results though- we’re all agreed on that. 

Im not necessarily a Warne defender just trying to add balance. We are all frustrated at being in this league especially when the scum are talking about signing £30m French international midfielders, we’re desperate to get out of our predicament and back to the minimum place we should be in the championship and when it doesn’t go well Warne is going to get the brunt - it’s natural.

[jimtastic56]

On 17/08/2023 at 09:54, Carnero said:

Agree with this take, I'd expect that Clowes will want to give it as long as possible this season to work, whilst still reacting in time to not have to write the season off. Of course if there's issues behind the scenes that are causing problems then he would need to factor this in too.

Looking at the fixtures our first 2 week break comes after 16 games (28th October) - this looks to be the best time to fully assess the season to date, whilst not making a finite decision based on just a handful of games this season.

By that stage we'll have played 7 teams you'd expect to finish top half of the table (Wigan, Oxford, Peterborough, Bolton, Portsmouth, Blackpool, Charlton) and 9 teams you'd expect to finish mid-low end of the table (Burton, Fleetwood, Northampton, Carlisle, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Shrewsbury, Exeter, Stevenage).

The 17th game is home to Barnsley which, all being well, should be a "6-pointer" so you'd want to go into this game either in a good position under Warne, or with a new manager bounce/buzz.

If we are still thinking about Automatic this season then we can only lose 3/4 more league games . For the play-offs about 8 more losses. Looking at the games so far how many losses will we rack up in the first 16 ? Looks like Warne has now got a mini injury crisis on his hands . I still think he can turn it around.

[Foreveram]

5 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

If we are still thinking about Automatic this season then we can only lose 3/4 more league games . For the play-offs about 8 more losses. Looking at the games so far how many losses will we rack up in the first 16 ? Looks like Warne has now got a mini injury crisis on his hands . I still think he can turn it around.

Last season Peterborough lost 17 and still made the playoffs.

The season before Fulham lost 10 and won the league.

[jimtastic56]

26 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Last season Peterborough lost 17 and still made the playoffs.

The season before Fulham lost 10 and won the league.

Ipswich lost 4 and Shef W 6. Could you predict how many we will lose in the first 16?

[Foreveram]

2 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Ipswich lost 4 and Shef W 6. Could you predict how many we will lose in the first 16?

No, but obviously you can if you state as a fact that we can only lose 3/4.

[jimtastic56]

8 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

No, but obviously you can if you state as a fact that we can only lose 3/4.

On current form , would lose 12/16 meaning we would have to go on an incredible run to get in the play offs. But as I have already said - I think Paul Warne will turn it round.

[clough08]

Currently we have a weaker squad than last year, possibly the weakest in my lifetime and I'm 66. So highly unlikely to be much above mid table. Recruitment has been poor - how much of that is PW's responsibility is hard to know.

So we have no option IMO than be patient, wait for finances to improve, maybe look at next year or year after as feasible promotion possibilities. I see no point in changing the manager.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

(Last season is done and wasn’t the dross everyone seems to think especially at home - I do accept we served up dross away but we’ve had one away game this season and won 3-0!). It’s too early to judge - especially given we’re still working on signings!! 

Home or away it usually followed the same pattern though. Good against useless teams, useless against good teams (and some average ones). Quite a large number of our home games were practically gimmes, or we got dragged through them by McGoldrick.

The home games against Port Vale, Fleetwood, Shrewsbury & Lincoln could all be described as containing varying levels of dross.

The scoreline against Burton masked some of our inadequacies, and could be compared to our 3-0 away win at Accrington last season. Losing to Wigan and Oxford (and Blackpool's reserves) are just more examples of how Warne struggles to beat teams expected to be in direct competition for the play-off spots.

Losing matches is one thing, directly handing the points to your rivals is another and we've already lost vital points to our direct competitors through poor preparation & organisation.

Even if we change things up now and get a good win tomorrow it won't remedy the situation. Wins against Peterborough & Bolton would do, however. Get some points in those games and I'll start to believe again.

 

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

People asserting Warne has blown the budget on his signings and we haven’t improved - one it’s too early to judge, two has anyone given any consideration whatsoever to the fact a huge chunk of the budget was committed on signings like Hourihane, Smith, Collins, Barkhuizen, Mendez-Laing all signed prior to Warne joining, all of whom are probably in the top 5 or 6 earners in the club,

I know you were only trying to adding a bit of balance, but that's just an excuse at this point.

Those are good players for the league, not dead-weights and it's his responsibility to come up with a system which makes best use of those players. He's had nearly a whole season working with them but spent the summer coming up with a system which exposes their limitations - it's not good enough.

I'll agree it's too early to judge whether the signings made this summer will end up being the disaster they currently look, but it's difficult to see how their attributes are a match for the type of football Warne wants to play.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[europia]

Not so sure about being patient, more like we have to accept the situation and hold our noses at PP when the team stink the place out. The recruitment seems the main problem, and the next biggest problem being retention as we are likely to see inevitable departures. It's most likely that (for financial reasons) Mr Clowes will stick with Warne and allow him time. I do wonder if Liam would have been a better option as a long term prospect. Obviously hindsight a wonderful thing, and the owner is the one who makes the difficult decisions and lives with the outcome. 

[Rammy03]

11 hours ago, clough08 said:

Currently we have a weaker squad than last year, possibly the weakest in my lifetime and I'm 66. So highly unlikely to be much above mid table. Recruitment has been poor - how much of that is PW's responsibility is hard to know.

So we have no option IMO than be patient, wait for finances to improve, maybe look at next year or year after as feasible promotion possibilities. I see no point in changing the manager.

Still think it can be done this year. We need some players brought in obviously but I think that will happen in the next couple of weeks.

[FlyBritishMidland]

Yes, we should be patient.  We’re only 3 games in and changing managers every 5 mins is party of the reason we are where we are.

I like Warne and really want him to do well.  I’m also a fan of 3 at the back but maybe I have rose tinted glasses of Jim Smith’s time here.  I’d move Foz to the centre of defence.  He did well there and seems to work well with Cash.  We need a ball player there with a calm head, more of a traditional sweeper.  We need some bite in midfield.  I still think we’re too weak there and get out muscled.

Substitutions when we’re behind is one of my biggest gripes with Warne.  They don’t seem planned.  On Tuesday we bring Thompson on to LWB/LB and move Foz into CD.  10 mins later we bring Elder on and move Thompson to CM.  That’s a lot of changes for changes sake.  We replace Collins, who had little support, with Washington - a different type of striker but with the same approach of getting out wide and crossing into the box.  We need to adapt the style to those on the pitch.

[Anag Ram]

8 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Yes, we should be patient.  We’re only 3 games in and changing managers every 5 mins is party of the reason we are where we are.

I like Warne and really want him to do well.  I’m also a fan of 3 at the back but maybe I have rose tinted glasses of Jim Smith’s time here.  I’d move Foz to the centre of defence.  He did well there and seems to work well with Cash.  We need a ball player there with a calm head, more of a traditional sweeper.  We need some bite in midfield.  I still think we’re too weak there and get out muscled.

Substitutions when we’re behind is one of my biggest gripes with Warne.  They don’t seem planned.  On Tuesday we bring Thompson on to LWB/LB and move Foz into CD.  10 mins later we bring Elder on and move Thompson to CM.  That’s a lot of changes for changes sake.  We replace Collins, who had little support, with Washington - a different type of striker but with the same approach of getting out wide and crossing into the box.  We need to adapt the style to those on the pitch.

Yes, he doesn’t utilise subs well.

Also, it has been hard to look at a starting lineup and see where the goals are coming from. On Tuesday, we basically had eight defenders and two attackers, one of which is a converted winger.

Neither Ward nor Forsyth got forward effectively and we have three midfielders who like to sit deep and not run much.

We have to get pace and aggression back into our game and for now, have to start with Waghorn and Washington to give us more presence in the box, allowing NML to revert to his favoured wide berth.

[TheTinMan]

I think its fine being patient IF that was the message the club was sending out, that they knew it'd take a while to get back to the Championship and they were trying to be forward thinking. To me going out of your way to recruit a 'promotion specialist' at this level from the league above who was still in a job at the time don't forget doesn't send out the message we are being patient as a club or more worryingly can afford to be patient. The signings don't smack of patience or of planning for the future they smack of short termism, players who on paper are much better than this level but in reality to get them to play at this level they come with huge caveats. I'm worried about far more than how this season pans out, I can see the short-term plan from the club and its probably not going to work. I have no idea what the mid-long term plans are and that is very hard to be patient about. 

[valakari]

I sort of understand if contracts are short, you aren't stuck with players if you achieve promotion..but if you don't..then every pre season you have to do a re-build!.. so older, experienced pro's can work...but the caveat surely must be that you need 'legs' in the team to balance that out..and we don't seem to address that!....which is weird as Warne is a fitness coach

[8Leeds]

It’s a simple answer isn’t it really, pick a formation and set of tactics that suits the squad you have. The formation Warne likes could work but the tactics on the other hand don’t seem to be, do they?

You ask three defenders with no pace to play as high as that and you’re inviting trouble.

Edited August 19, 2023 by 8Leeds

[valakari]

My view is 3 central defenders is a negative...the opponents never have 3 central strikers!

4231, 433, 442, 4123 whichever...gets an extra attacking player on the pitch!

No rocket science here....

[sage]

3 minutes ago, 8Leeds said:

It’s a simple answer isn’t it really, pick a formation and set of tactics that suits the squad you have. The formation Warne likes could work but the tactics on the other hand don’t seem to be, do they?

You ask three defenders with no pace to play as high as that and you’re inviting trouble.

Correct. Much of the frustration lies in it is obvious what he is trying to do won't work with what we have and several of our summer signings massively contradict his stated intentions.

Therfore we have the triple whammy of poor results, poor performances and a lack of strategic and tactical coherance.