Should we be patient? If so, how does it improve?

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, Diego said:

Genuinely like to hear the thoughts to that.

Three absolute abject performances all on our own patch reminiscent of Nigel Pearson’s time in charge, if not worse. Not forgetting the damp end to last season.

There isn’t any hint of it improving anywhere on the pitch and the manager seems to think 352 is the way forward regardless. 

The league is weaker and we seemed to have regressed in 12 months. Rosenior bumping into players in July and persuading them so sign and chucking a squad together was better than this. 

We were told we had a significant budget. If he’s blown it on these new players, how is this retrievable? 

Can’t see two youth loans (which is where we are likely shopping) like White and Springett improving it.

I also think we are well over “bantz” interviews now.

Time to get serious with this club and it’s ambitions whilst the window is still open.

I have been one of the ‘it’s very early days, the team need time to gel’ brigade up until tonight. I am struggling to see how this improves. Then again I always feel half glass empty when both the 🐏 and Derbyshire 🏏 lose on the same day  😢

[Sparkle]

46 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

We're not three games in though. We are nearly 12 months in to Warne and we've been getting steadily worse since last winter. We finished last season poorly and we've started this one in even worse shape. It's not an isolated three match blip.

Very good point - we are not Improving are we? - we certainly don’t look like it 

last season we had McGoldrick who had great skill and NML who attacked at will for 60 mins and knight who covered everywhere, this season we have NML moved inside to accommodate wing backs and defenders who can’t defend 

[Topram]

That was poor but patient is definitely the way forward we’re on a budget and it’ll take time 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Warne's coaching is the reason our back three is constantly exposed and under pressure. When defenders are exposed and under pressure they are more likely to make mistakes.

None of these mistakes have been made in moments of great pressure. In all cases, the player who fecked it up had multiple options to get out of the situation. 

 

3 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Warne's coaching is why we end up with a striker that is massively isolated feeding off scraps because we have no structure to our attacking play beyond run it down the flanks and try to cross it, or failing that just lump it up bypassing our midfield entirely and handing the ball back to the opposition.

We've created a number of good chances tonight, as we have in every other league game.

 

4 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Warne's coaching is why we are unable as a team to regularly string more than three or four passes together.

I don't think Warne coached the players into that. I think it's the poor quality League One footballers in our squad that has done that. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Just now, Andicis said:

Sure, I don't disagree that nobody would be here if Warne doesn't want them. You have NO idea what players are available and have been presented to him. It's entirely feasible the list provided contains some pretty s*** players and he chose the best of a bad bunch.

There have been some decent players available.  Portsmouth have picked up two very good players for this division in Shaughnessy and Poole. Harris for Oxford looks a good player and cost nothing.

The players are out there and are a lot better than we have brought in on the whole.  We've been crying out for pace for a year.  The ball constantly coming back at such a static defence was always going to be an issue as was not replacing Knights covering.  He's got his characters but if they've got concrete boots they need some quick feet in front to occupy the other team.  I hope Sibley and Barkhuizen bring there A game and they're moderately quick rather than fast. 

[Scott129]

I'd be about ready to call it if we get another 2/3 of those s***e performances.

As others have pointed out, it isn't just the first few games of this season. We were crap at the end of last season too.

[Leicester Ram]

New system and new players, you have to have patience

That was awful but come on, we’re so early on. If you took posts on here as gospel, we play the worst game of football Derby County Football Club has played in 139 years about twice a season

The issues I can see resolving themselves are the unforced errors and pattern of attacking build up play, they’ll naturally get better as the players get comfortable in the system. I do believe doubts over how great our potential is in that system are legitimate but we’ll obviously be playing much better than that before too long 

The glaring issue I think is here to stay is the pace of the squad. Players are constantly getting in behind the back three and we can’t get behind the opposition

As much as I think the performances have been unusually bad, even for this early in the season, I think the squad is a cake with no icing right now

We need the icing players, we need the athleticism, we probably need some loan signings and a greater goal threat up top

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

4 minutes ago, Topram said:

That was poor but patient is definitely the way forward we’re on a budget and it’ll take time 

The budget will only get smaller the longer we are in this division.

Just because the EFL will take their restrictions away at some point doesn't mean Clowes is suddenly going to go mad.

The longer we are here the more the attendances will drop, the more the attendances drop the less we have to spend. Vicious cycle.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

There have been some decent players available.  Portsmouth have picked up two very good players for this division in Shaughnessy and Poole. Harris for Oxford looks a good player and cost nothing.

The players are out there and are a lot better than we have brought in on the whole.  We've been crying out for pace for a year.  The ball constantly coming back at such a static defence was always going to be an issue as was not replacing Knights covering.  He's got his characters but if they've got concrete boots they need some quick feet in front to occupy the other team.  I hope Sibley and Barkhuizen bring there A game and they're moderately quick rather than fast. 

Again, you have no idea what the other clubs offered, whether there were personal reasons for a player to move somewhere, or whether we could take these players in our budget. If only football management was as easy as fans make it out to be. I'm sure Warne had no idea that we could use some pace, power and talented young footballers for low prices. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Just now, Andicis said:

Again, you have no idea what the other clubs offered, whether there were personal reasons for a player to move somewhere, or whether we could take these players in our budget. If only football management was as easy as fans make it out to be. I'm sure Warne had no idea that we could use some pace, power and talented young footballers for low prices. 

Clearly not as he's wasted his budget on a load of s**** bar Ward.  

[Jram]

We looked really poor tonight. I’m sure there’s a possibility of improvement but I think the system has to change. 

Never been convinced by Collins- don’t think he has the quality to link the play 

Thought Bird and Thimpson were bright 

Obviously stick with Warne. 

 

[Jourdan]

We looked in a really good place in pre-season but everyone saw that we needed to continue our work in the transfer market and improve the blend and balance of the team. We haven’t done that and we are paying the price for that.

We do have to be patient because realistically the club is not in a financial position to rip up Warne’s contract or even in a good bargaining position to attract a new manager.

I think the only way this improves is if Warne takes a long, hard look and accepts that changes need to be made because with each passing game, goodwill is rapidly diminishing.

[CocuBarmyArmy]

I know the academy is in a rough spot at the moment, but maybe it could provide that pace we so desperately need. Brown is reasonably quick from what I've seen of him (although that's not much tbf), Robinson looks tidy, it's time we started using our expensive production line. 

Obviously it's easy to argue that they are not ready, they might not be and it might not work, but we said that about Ebiowei, Cashin, Ebosele etc (who would likely never had got that chance if it wasn't for admin). We are looking for a striker, give Brown a go, worst case it doesn't work and we are back to where we are now.  

[Topram]

He’s admitted it hasn’t worked so far and sounds like he may go back to a 4 at the back if so there’s a start, can’t just sack someone 3 league games into a season with his own players..

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

None of these mistakes have been made in moments of great pressure. In all cases, the player who fecked it up had multiple options to get out of the situation. 

We've created a number of good chances tonight, as we have in every other league game.

I don't think Warne coached the players into that. I think it's the poor quality League One footballers in our squad that has done that. 

We can't keep waving criticism away with "oh well it's the players fault" or "Well how involved is he in recruiting players really?". In simple terms he's the manager and it's his job to get the most out of what we have. On that very basic point he is currently failing miserably and I don't really see how it can be argued otherwise as it stands.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

The worst thing DC or PW have done this summer is mention budgets.

As that seems to have either set some unrealistic expectations amongst supporters and also caused the largest amount of second guessing I've ever known on here.

And we still don't know what the budget actually was.

But it still doesn't stop poorly informed comments. 

But given we spent last season with a thrown together squad, after a near death experience........

....is it unreasonable to expect some stability and improvement?

 

We seem to have neither.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

We can't keep waving criticism away with "oh well it's the players fault" or "Well how involved is he in recruiting players really?". In simple terms he's the manager and it's his job to get the most out of what we have. On that very basic point he is currently failing miserably and I don't really see how it can be argued otherwise as it stands.

 

Because the player power system is one of the reasons football is so fickle now. As soon as the players start underperforming, they aren't expected to take any ownership, it's just blamed on the manager and rinse and repeat. It's happened at Derby for years. These are experienced players. They can and should take ownership for their own performances. 

[Srg]

Only way this improves is with incoming players who are younger, more athletic and have pace. 

He also needs to play the ones we have. Rooney, Robinson, Thompson, Brown etc all have a role to play with the squad we have as they’re all quicker and more mobile than the old men we have. 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Just now, Andicis said:

Because the player power system is one of the reasons football is so fickle now. As soon as the players start underperforming, they aren't expected to take any ownership, it's just blamed on the manager and rinse and repeat. It's happened at Derby for years. These are experienced players. They can and should take ownership for their own performances. 

If the players were being set up in a way that is coherent and plays to their strengths and they are still looking like a confused, disorganised rabble then fair enough I'd take your point. 

This isn't about player power. This is about an evident disconnect between the way the players are suited to playing and the way they are being told to play. It's the managers job to fix that. The players can't just unilaterally decide to act against Warne's instructions. They are doing a they are told and as a squad they are less than the sum of their parts for that reason.

[Andicis]

Just now, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

If the players were being set up in a way that is coherent and plays to their strengths and they are still looking like a confused, disorganised rabble then fair enough I'd take your point. 

This isn't about player power. This is about an evident disconnect between the way the players are suited to playing and the way they are being told to play. It's the managers job to fix that. The players can't just unilaterally decide to act against Warne's instructions. They are doing a they are told and as a squad they are less than the sum of their parts for that reason.

It's your opinion that they are less than the sum of their parts. My opinion is that the parts aren't very good and that they are exactly the sum of that.