Should we be patient? If so, how does it improve?

[Blondest Goat]

15 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I realise how toxic things are becoming. The magic formula is better results and better, more cohesive football.

Clowes coming out and saying promotion could take four seasons wouldn’t help matters one iota.

Why?

It would just lead to people saying we have a useless manager and a useless owner.

Just better results.  We served up a load of dross last season and all bar a few critical voices on here seemed to lap it up. 

Amazed how many people have suddenly turned after a couple of bad results.  The football really wasn't that much better last season (there's no way we would've won at Burton for starters) but all of a sudden it appears it's open season for criticising Warne.  

I get that people might've expected us to be more effective (I certainly did) but you can tell from the way he wants us to play that a poor performance is only ever going to be just around the corner under Warne.  He doesn't value possession or control for a start.  Chaotic football is going to lead to some poor results.  It must've been the same at Rotherham under him.

[Sparkle]

I want to see improvement from last season - we are being served up totally the opposite 

the season we were deducted 21 points I was so proud to be a fan - total effort and total team play. - we are now the complete opposite 

[Anag Ram]

Just now, Sparkle said:

I want to see improvement from last season - we are being served up totally the opposite 

the season we were deducted 21 points I was so proud to be a fan - total effort and total team play. - we are now the complete opposite 

Agreed. We have to believe the team would fight for each other every game.

Warne tells us he’s building that but I get the sense he’s like those companies that have values posters on every wall.

If you really do have team spirit you shouldn’t have to keep banging on about it.

I see a team that doesn’t make unselfish runs, or cover players when they go forward. I see a team full of players that hopes someone else will provide the spark. 

Last season we had McGoldrick to do that.

This season we have????

Unless we find collective responsibility where everyone is encouraged to make the magic happen, we are going to struggle big time.

Any player that isn’t prepared to step up can leave.

I see young players on the bench tapping the ball around at half time who dream of getting their shot.

Isn’t that a more hopeful place to start than a group whose best days are behind them?

Warne doesn’t currently believe in youth. He has to keep faith in the guys he convinced to come here.

 I hope he has the courage to change that perspective.

[sage]

15 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Just better results.  We served up a load of dross last season and all bar a few critical voices on here seemed to lap it up. 

Amazed how many people have suddenly turned after a couple of bad results.  The football really wasn't that much better last season (there's no way we would've won at Burton for starters) but all of a sudden it appears it's open season for criticising Warne.  

I get that people might've expected us to be more effective (I certainly did) but you can tell from the way he wants us to play that a poor performance is only ever going to be just around the corner under Warne.  He doesn't value possession or control for a start.  Chaotic football is going to lead to some poor results.  It must've been the same at Rotherham under him.

1 win in 9 at home.

[Carnero]

31 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I agree once more, but we’re not yet at that point. For the fans it’s all bleak and not looking good, Clowes has to have a bit more of a rationale perspective on it and weigh it up. If after 10-15 games it’s looking really bleak then he probably will act. There is still plenty of time for Warne to turn it around, I know many are questioning whether he will or even can, but I just don’t think from what he’s stated publicly so far that Clowes will feel as impatient with the process as some fans do. 
I’m not questioning those fans for their views or opinions, I just have come to my own conclusions on how I think Clowes will still afford Warne some time based on what he’s said previously. 

Agree with this take, I'd expect that Clowes will want to give it as long as possible this season to work, whilst still reacting in time to not have to write the season off. Of course if there's issues behind the scenes that are causing problems then he would need to factor this in too.

Looking at the fixtures our first 2 week break comes after 16 games (28th October) - this looks to be the best time to fully assess the season to date, whilst not making a finite decision based on just a handful of games this season.

By that stage we'll have played 7 teams you'd expect to finish top half of the table (Wigan, Oxford, Peterborough, Bolton, Portsmouth, Blackpool, Charlton) and 9 teams you'd expect to finish mid-low end of the table (Burton, Fleetwood, Northampton, Carlisle, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Shrewsbury, Exeter, Stevenage).

The 17th game is home to Barnsley which, all being well, should be a "6-pointer" so you'd want to go into this game either in a good position under Warne, or with a new manager bounce/buzz.

[RoyMac5]

42 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I suppose the counter argument is that "going up in 2 or 3 years" would imply the need for some element of relatively quick improvement.  If we were to finish lower than last year, then it makes going up in 2 or 3 years very difficult. There's also the aspect of monitoring performance against the stated plan.  We obviously aren't intending to just wait 5 years and then see if we are established in the championship, there has to be some degree of ongoing evaluation.  And at this (admittedly very early) stage, there's no sign of improvement (in fact things seem to be getting worse) and we look way off track to meet the stated goals.

Yes, if you look at the squad so far recruited this season then surely that can't be a stated aim? Keeping in mind that getting up is the priority. Last season, Warne had most of it and a transfer window, and deemed it a failure, there needs to be some positive signs to make it look like 'aims' (I won't say goals because that's asking for trouble!) are being met?

[Kathcairns]

16 hours ago, Barney1991 said:

Because if he came out and said anything about taking 4 years to get out of league 1 you can kiss goodbye to over 20,000 season ticket holders. 

Thought true supporters followed their club through thick and thin.

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, sage said:

1 win in 9 at home.

Wow! When was that? Surely it needs mentioning to Warne?

[Walkley Ram]

21 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Just better results.  We served up a load of dross last season and all bar a few critical voices on here seemed to lap it up. 

Amazed how many people have suddenly turned after a couple of bad results.  The football really wasn't that much better last season (there's no way we would've won at Burton for starters) but all of a sudden it appears it's open season for criticising Warne.  

I get that people might've expected us to be more effective (I certainly did) but you can tell from the way he wants us to play that a poor performance is only ever going to be just around the corner under Warne.  He doesn't value possession or control for a start.  Chaotic football is going to lead to some poor results.  It must've been the same at Rotherham under him.

He's had two (fine, one and a bit) transfer windows. We've gone backwards. He had the benefit of the doubt last season, based on him inheriting someone else's team put together from gumtree.

So far we've lost 2, arguably 3 of our best players if you include Bielik. The players who have come in look like deers in the headlights. Wingbacks have been added, great, but there are still gaping holes in midfield and attack, while players we're linked with are constantly going elsewhere to smaller clubs. I know most links are paper/agent talk, but you'd expect us to be hoovering up talent in this league.

I don't find it hypocritical to have supported Warne up until these latest results, then had a change of mind. It's a results business, and the buck lies with him. For better or worse.

For the record, I think he's an absolutely great guy. I even find him funny. I take no pleasure in thinking he needs to move on. Most of my posts about him are gallows humour, I'm just in utter dispair at what I see on the pitch at the moment. But things change quickly. I've said before, string a few results together and I'll have my bobble hat back on quicker than anyone.

[Anag Ram]

19 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Just better results.  We served up a load of dross last season and all bar a few critical voices on here seemed to lap it up. 

Amazed how many people have suddenly turned after a couple of bad results.  The football really wasn't that much better last season (there's no way we would've won at Burton for starters) but all of a sudden it appears it's open season for criticising Warne.  

I get that people might've expected us to be more effective (I certainly did) but you can tell from the way he wants us to play that a poor performance is only ever going to be just around the corner under Warne.  He doesn't value possession or control for a start.  Chaotic football is going to lead to some poor results.  It must've been the same at Rotherham under him.

I have to take issue with that statement. I didn’t see as many passes played under no pressure go off the playing surface. 

I didn’t see the ball sailing over the heads of central defenders. I didn’t see us let forwards run through on the keeper unopposed like some U12s game.

We at least managed to exchange a few quick passes.

This season we have lost the ability to exchange passes under control.

Everyone seems to have to stick their tongue out and concentrate REALLY hard to control the ball, trapping it carefully with one foot then playing it backwards to (and usually just behind) a guy ten yards away.

 It’s painful to watch. Our warm ups used to include really snappy five yard passing routines with guys closing them down. I want to see that intensity back in our play.

We started as a naive championship team being outmuscled by league one thugs. Now we are trying to survive playing league two football.

[Blondest Goat]

10 minutes ago, sage said:

1 win in 9 at home.

Yes.  That stat goes back to last season.  Dross then, dross now.  What's changed?  All these games are decided by fine margins.  A bit of Didzy magic here, a shocking backpass by Bradley there.  

Unlike most it seems I don't believe we are suddenly that much worse than we were last season.  We don't seem to have improved at all that's the worry but it's still early days.  

[Blondest Goat]

4 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I have to take issue with that statement. I didn’t see as many passes played under no pressure go off the playing surface. 

I didn’t see the ball sailing over the heads of central defenders. I didn’t see us let forwards run through on the keeper unopposed like some U12s game.

We at least managed to exchange a few quick passes.

This season we have lost the ability to exchange passes under control.

Everyone seems to have to stick their tongue out and concentrate REALLY hard to control the ball, trapping it carefully with one foot then playing it backwards to (and usually just behind) a guy ten yards away.

 It’s painful to watch. Our warm ups used to include really snappy five yard passing routines with guys closing them down. I want to see that intensity back in our play.

We started as a naive championship team being outmuscled by league one thugs. Now we are trying to survive playing league two football.

Wycombe away,  Bristol Rovers away?  

Wigan at home and Burton away this season were much better than those two performances and there were countless others.  

Our amazing unbeaten run that everyone revelled in included the amazing 2 2 draw against Torquay.  A proud day in Rams history.  Come on we served up some right dross.  No patterns of play, no attempt to control games.  Just better individual performances getting us over the line in games of fine margins.  

[sage]

15 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Yes.  That stat goes back to last season.  Dross then, dross now.  What's changed?  All these games are decided by fine margins.  A bit of Didzy magic here, a shocking backpass by Bradley there.  

Unlike most it seems I don't believe we are suddenly that much worse than we were last season.  We don't seem to have improved at all that's the worry but it's still early days.  

We started going downhill last season as the team tired as all Warne teams tire. The worry now is we are dross when we should be at our freshest.

[Anag Ram]

2 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Wycombe away,  Bristol Rovers away?  

Wigan at home and Burton away this season were much better than those two performances and there were countless others.  

Our amazing unbeaten run that everyone revelled in included the amazing 2 2 draw against Torquay.  A proud day in Rams history.  Come on we served up some right dross.  No patterns of play, no attempt to control games.  Just better individual performances getting us over the line in games of fine margins.  

I’ll give you Rovers away. But that was due to lack of ambition rather than lack of football.

Haydon Roberts was one of, if not the best defender last year. Knight had the energy we badly lack, and McGoldrick the only class in the squad.

No player we’ve brought in has replaced those attributes.

I think Wilson and Ward will show glimpses but I’d rather they were the wide option of a 4-4-2 with a proper full back behind them.

On the left we are devoid of talent.

Up front we have three old Labradors chasing a chewed tennis ball enthusiastically but without their former vigour.

[Blondest Goat]

13 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I’ll give you Rovers away. But that was due to lack of ambition rather than lack of football.

Haydon Roberts was one of, if not the best defender last year. Knight had the energy we badly lack, and McGoldrick the only class in the squad.

No player we’ve brought in has replaced those attributes.

I think Wilson and Ward will show glimpses but I’d rather they were the wide option of a 4-4-2 with a proper full back behind them.

On the left we are devoid of talent.

Up front we have three old Labradors chasing a chewed tennis ball enthusiastically but without their former vigour.

It's a worry for sure but I think the Wigan and Burton performances are on a par or better than some of what we saw last season.  Four games seems to be a bit quick for some people to go from not allowing any criticism of Warne to wanting him out of the club.

For me he's always had some glaringly obvious weaknesses and if we were prepared to give him time last season we need to do the same this season.

[SSD]

I feel much of the anger and frustration has been bottled up from the back end of last season and because of the poor start, many supporters have released their emotions on the manager, I don't blame them to be honest.

It is difficult for supporters to get behind a team who aren't playing well and the football being presented is horrid. This is why the likes of Pulis, Bruce, Allardyce etc. receive really poor reactions from fans when their teams start losing games. The pretty on the eye managers tend to get more time because at least they're trying to entertain even if the results don't match the performance. I think we are all baffled as to why Warne is known for playing high intensity football yet 2 of his 3 centre backs cannot run and play a high line, hence there's questions on recruitment and manager tactics.

Built up anger has finally exploded unfortunately.

[WestStandStartTheBounce]

I think why everyone has jumped on the bandwagon of Warne out is the benefit of doubt of last season is gone. Last season he came in and had to change things with no time to work with the players and they were players that were effectively other teams cast offs.

It was understandable Warne had problems because he had aging players and he couldn't really bring anyone in. He has now had a full pre season with some of his own signings and we don't look any better than last year ( a disjointed mess, with players out of position and making silly individual errors). Being objective were OK against Wigan until the first goal. But even for all that early promise against Wigan we still had the same problem of not being able to score.

For me we should have had more pre season games and tried this system along with a plan B. Also we haven't recruited to replace those that have left. It just seems odd we can't do that when you see teams like Fleetwood, Oxford etc making some good signings ( no disrespect to those teams).

The difference, for me, this season is Warne is solely responsible for the results. He has had the time to make the team how he wants and the way we play is firmly on his shoulders.

[MadAmster]

I have just had a look at our form. Last 15 League games W5 D3 L7 for 18 points. Extrapolate that over a 46 game season and that would have seen us 16th last season. One place and one point behind Burton.

Doesn't make good reading.

[trappatoni]

I'm coming round to the opinion that the club should start making plans beyond Warne.    This Saturday is such an important game - lose it and his job should be on the line if he can't turn it around in the following two away games.   My reasons - probably the same as many others.

- when he came in and tried the 5 it didn't look good.   I honestly think our good run last year was more him reverting to Liam's team with a dash of directness thrown in.   When they was a wobble he threw the baby out with the bathwater - started to instill more of his principles as the solution and it made things worse.

- I don't buy his emotional intelligence management BS.   Maybe I'm just cynical and old but I don't care if pictures of my family are in the wall at work or all that jazz.  If the team spirit is so great why does Didzy walk?   Why were the players on each others backs against Oxford?  

- his style of football is outdated.   These days even amateur teams coach stuff like playing out from the back - we just don't look to be familiar with any basic patterns of play. 

- If you listened to Darren Robinson on radio Derby early closed season all the things he said we shouldn't do - buying ex Rotherham players, relying on older free signings - we've done.   He also compared our pre season running unfavourably with the Lionesses fitness training - implying ours was outdated.   He's a guy who knows what happens in well run clubs - he clearly thinks we aren't. 

- what is the future planning?   Ok this may not be down to Warne but all our frees will be on biggish wages as established players and have zero sell on.   It's short termism writ large.   Go up this year or we are stuffed... we ain't going up this year so...

I'm pretty close to saying sack him, write off the season and bring in someone who can do a genuine job of building the club in the way Evatt is doing at Bolton.   I'm not desperate to go up IF we are at least challenging in the top 6 and playing some decent football and there are positive signs  for the future.  That should be easily achievable being the biggest club in this relatively weak division.

  

 

 

 

[BaianoPOTY98]

Why sack Warne now after only 3 games when he has pretty much spent all of our LIMITED budget on his type players i.e 3 at the back with wingbacks? Surely give him until at least Christmas to turn things around?

What happens when you bring another manager in, he has new ideas, doesnt like the players we have or the style of play but doesnt have any budget to change things? Thats the Derby way of Mel, which look where that got us!!