Should we be patient? If so, how does it improve?

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Bad results happen, but if anyone can pick a redeemable quality out of the philosophy and setup we are currently seeing on the pitch I'm all ears, because I can't see any and that is far more concerning than a the scorelines.

It's always hard to pick out positives after a s*** performance, and it'll be the same for any other manager. We've had a shaky start and those early mistakes have made our defenders look like nervous wrecks which doesn't help matters. My point is overall we've a lengthy history of lurching from one manager to the next, changing the playstyle every time and then having to replace all of the old manager's players and losing money on all of them. The only thing we haven't actually tried is being patient for once. 

[TheRamOfSwad]

4 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

My big concern right now is that Warne has made a system that is going to work great going to the small away grounds and everything is a lot tighter, but when you are on a big pitch everyone is about 3 yards away from where they should be and all teams will do like Oxford did andsoak up the pressure and counter attack once we make a mistake.

Could be a make or break decision for Warne, whether he continues or tries to change something.

Perhaps that's how he should approach it

 

Play the 3 at the back & wingbacks for the away games on the small pitches and try and play more football at home with a more tradional formation 

Would be able to naturally rotate a lot of players then for different types of games 

[kevinhectoring]

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The worst thing DC or PW have done this summer is mention budgets.

As that seems to have either set some unrealistic expectations amongst supporters and also caused the largest amount of second guessing I've ever known on here.

And we still don't know what the budget actually was.

But it still doesn't stop poorly informed comments. 

warne has told us how he speaks to potential recruits when they tour the club. It’s no wonder that we struggle to recruit good players - or that we lose them 

beginning to think the way out of this league is to revert to the lampard /rooney model. At least they (and even LR) had pulling power. Who is the next Vincent Kompany

[TheTinMan]

I'm not sure how accurate transfermarkt is on these things and there might be some we have an 'option' on to extend but apparently Wildsmith, Cashin, Forsyth, Bird, Thompson, Sibley, Hourihane, Korey Smith, Barkhuizen, Mendez-Laing, Collins and Waghorn all have contracts expiring next summer. 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Just now, Andicis said:

It's always hard to pick out positives after a s*** performance, and it'll be the same for any other manager. We've had a shaky start and those early mistakes have made our defenders look like nervous wrecks which doesn't help matters. My point is overall we've a lengthy history of lurching from one manager to the next, changing the playstyle every time and then having to replace all of the old manager's players and losing money on all of them. The only thing we haven't actually tried is being patient for once. 

How much patience should Warne be afforded then? How many more times can he try and impose a system that is quite clearly not suited to the players at his disposal on them and send them out to get beat? 

If I could see a coherent plan out there I'd be calmer and willing to give it time. All I'm seeing at the minute is a stubborn manager unwilling to adapt and a group of players being sent out in a system that hands all the initiative directly to the opposition, no matter how inferior, and puts them under constant pressure. 

[Anag Ram]

                      Wildsmith 

Rooney.     Nelson.    Cashin.    Forsyth 

Wilson.        Bird.      Thompson.   NML

               Washington.   Waghorn 

Just hope Bird is okay 

[Andicis]

Just now, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

How much patience should Warne be afforded then? How many more times can he try and impose a system that is quite clearly not suited to the players at his disposal on them and send them out to get beat? 

If I could see a coherent plan out there I'd be calmer and willing to give it time. All I'm seeing at the minute is a stubborn manager unwilling to adapt and a group of players being sent out in a system that hands all the initiative directly to the opposition, no matter how inferior, and puts them under constant pressure. 

Until the end of the business plan at the end of the season. That then gives us an opportunity to change direction if we choose to do so. 

[plymouthram]

26 minutes ago, Diego said:

Genuinely like to hear the thoughts to that.

Three absolute abject performances all on our own patch reminiscent of Nigel Pearson’s time in charge, if not worse. Not forgetting the damp end to last season.

There isn’t any hint of it improving anywhere on the pitch and the manager seems to think 352 is the way forward regardless. 

The league is weaker and we seemed to have regressed in 12 months. Rosenior bumping into players in July and persuading them so sign and chucking a squad together was better than this. 

We were told we had a significant budget. If he’s blown it on these new players, how is this retrievable? 

Can’t see two youth loans (which is where we are likely shopping) like White and Springett improving it.

I also think we are well over “bantz” interviews now.

Time to get serious with this club and it’s ambitions whilst the window is still open.

Damp end to last season came about when Warne started playing 3 centrebacks. When we had our good run under Warne he played 4 at the back. Now this formation with the current new faces are all lacking pace at the back and are getting caught out on counter attacks. We also need a goalscorer and this was obvious even from last season and Warne moaned that some targets went elsewhere. Derby are a big club, why could'nt we get them in. Could it be our manager, tactics etc not being the attraction.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Until the end of the business plan at the end of the season. That then gives us an opportunity to change direction if we choose to do so. 

In the mean time we write off another season, treading water with turgid football sapping the confidence of the playing squad, and see a huge chunk of season ticket holders lose their patience and take a break? 

As I said, keeping a bad manager costs more in the long run than appointing a better one.

Edited August 15, 2023 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[TheTinMan]

6 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

That unfortunately is the penalty we as a club might have to live with for longer than we would like to thanks to Mel .

We didn't have to go this way though this was Warne's choice and actually Liam's to be fair too which makes me wonder if its the preferred strategy of the club generally. You can't entice the likes of Conor Hourihane to League 1 and not expect to pay more than we can probably afford as a squad generally. Bradley just came from a club who got promoted to the PL. Why didn't we accept we'd be down here for a bit and rebuild properly with hungry players from the lower leagues and other markets, try and tie down the ones we had like Bird and Cashin and build the team around them? I don't get it at all it all, feels very short sighted to me. I mentioned all those players out of contract next summer i.e. half the squad. I'd be staggered if half of them are here next September. 

[TheRamOfSwad]

Was it me or at times did it feel like we were playing 3-6-1 at times tonight with NML on the left wing and then no support for him or any runners and just expecting him to kick the ball 20 yards infront of Oxfords defence and beat them on the sprint 

He could probably do it once or twice but cmon 🤣

[Mick Brolly]

9 minutes ago, TheTinMan said:

We didn't have to go this way though this was Warne's choice and actually Liam's to be fair too which makes me wonder if its the preferred strategy of the club generally. You can't entice the likes of Conor Hourihane to League 1 and not expect to pay more than we can probably afford as a squad generally. Bradley just came from a club who got promoted to the PL. Why didn't we accept we'd be down here for a bit and rebuild properly with hungry players from the lower leagues and other markets, try and tie down the ones we had like Bird and Cashin and build the team around them? I don't get it at all it all, feels very short sighted to me. I mentioned all those players out of contract next summer i.e. half the squad. I'd be staggered if half of them are here next September. 

Maybe we've ended up with some of these players because no one else wanted them Hourihane hasn't really smashed league 1 has he 

[Andicis]

12 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

In the mean time we write off another season, treading water with turgid football sapping the confidence of the playing squad, and see a huge chunk of season ticket holders lose their patience and take a break? 

As I said, keeping a bad manager costs more in the long run than appointing a better one.

Who said writing it off? That's your opinion as you want Warne fired, personally I wouldn't be shocked if he turned it around. There is no guarantee firing him gets any better results or performances. What if our players just aren't very good? 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Who said writing it off? That's your opinion as you want Warne fired, personally I wouldn't be shocked if he turned it around. There is no guarantee firing him gets any better results or performances. What if our players just aren't very good? 

Then I'd suggest he's brought in 7 of them and the others he's playing out of position to accommodate his mess.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Who said writing it off? That's your opinion as you want Warne fired, personally I wouldn't be shocked if he turned it around. There is no guarantee firing him gets any better results or performances. What if our players just aren't very good? 

More than a few of our players have a track record of getting promoted from this division or have been signed from a higher division. Have they all suddenly lost the ability to play football or are they being poorly utilised by a manager resulting in them currently amounting to far less than the sum of their parts?

I know which one it is and I think anyone watching us at the minute does too.

Edited August 15, 2023 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[Andicis]

Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Then I'd suggest he's brought in 7 of them and the others he's playing out of position to accommodate his mess.

Didn't we just sign a new head of recruitment? How involved was Warne with recruitment? Once again, people make assumptions and then berate Warne based on their own (probably incorrect) assumption. 

[Andicis]

Just now, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

More than a few of our players have a track record of getting promoted from this division or have been signed from a higher division. Have they all suddenly lost the ability to play football or are they being poorly utilised by a manager resulting in them currently amounting to far less than the sum of their parts?

I know which one it is.

Warne's coaching is the reason that Mendez-Laing doesn't put his head up, or Wildsmith doesn't catch it. These poor mature footballers cannot be expected to take responsibility for their own performances. Bradley and Nelson have been a disgrace, and I don't buy for one second that Warne is coaching them to defend so poorly. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Just now, Andicis said:

Didn't we just sign a new head of recruitment? How involved was Warne with recruitment? Once again, people make assumptions and then berate Warne based on their own (probably incorrect) assumption. 

He's been prattling on about zoom meetings, touring players round the training facilities, assessing if they're up to playing in front of big crowds and writing of big time Charlies who wear bling as not for him for 3 months.  No one will be here if he doesn't want them. 

[Andicis]

Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He's been prattling on about zoom meetings, touring players round the training facilities, assessing if they're up to playing in front of big crowds and writing of big time Charlies who wear bling as not for him for 3 months.  No one will be here if he doesn't want them. 

Sure, I don't disagree that nobody would be here if Warne doesn't want them. You have NO idea what players are available and have been presented to him. It's entirely feasible the list provided contains some pretty s*** players and he chose the best of a bad bunch.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Warne's coaching is the reason that Mendez-Laing doesn't put his head up, or Wildsmith doesn't catch it. These poor mature footballers cannot be expected to take responsibility for their own performances. Bradley and Nelson have been a disgrace, and I don't buy for one second that Warne is coaching them to defend so poorly. 

Warne's coaching is the reason our back three is constantly exposed and under pressure. When defenders are exposed and under pressure they are more likely to make mistakes.

Warne's coaching is why we end up with a striker that is massively isolated feeding off scraps because we have no structure to our attacking play beyond run it down the flanks and try to cross it, or failing that just lump it up bypassing our midfield entirely and handing the ball back to the opposition.

Warne's coaching is why we are unable as a team to regularly string more than three or four passes together.

Warne's coaching is why we are easy to play against, predictable, and have lost three home games on the spin. Bar a second half Burton meltdown we have been second best for almost every half of football we have played this season.