Should we be patient? If so, how does it improve?

[CBRammette]

9 hours ago, Mick Brolly said:

Obviously performances aren't good,but what do we know about who we've tried to sign ,what money we can pay ,what the actual budget is there's lots of things we don't know the answers to and probably never will,Warne might be to blame for most of it or maybe he's been let down by by clowes,recruitment, agents etc.

I do agree but unfortunately at the moment we arent getting anything at all out of those we have got. For example PW mentions the importance of set pieces but CHs corners were woeful

[Jayram]

9 hours ago, Andicis said:

We're 3 games in. Clearly Clowes didn't believe in Rosenior as a stand in, that's gone and is now completely irrelevant. What happens if the next guy doesn't get us up the first time? This time next year, people will want him gone. And we end up in the vicious cycle like we did with Mel. Fans never learn. 

I just want to see some actual football, the sort of football where decent players pass and move, knock the ball around stretching the opposition and create chances. The sort of football that makes you excited to go to a game, to be proud of your team. We have decent players in this squad. Instead though I’m watching the worst garbage I’ve seen from a Derby County side in 40+ years because of a manager with one tactic and one tactic only - hoof it up the middle or out to the wing and hope for the best. 

The fact that he’s hammering square shapes into round holes to try and make his ‘system’ work demonstrates the limitation of his abilities. He is the wrong man for the job, pure and simple.

[simmoram1995]

8 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

He was free.

I don’t know if true but wasn’t Bradley injured a lot last season and being a taller slower CB that doesn’t bode well 

[San Fran Van Rams]

I think we have to give a little more time to Warne. I'm not a huge fan of his recruitment - neither Nelson nor Bradley inspire much confidence in me yet, Elder seems to be very poor technically and Washington hasn't shown much yet. As many others have said, none of them have replaced McGoldrick although I'd argue he was an anomaly and we were far too reliant on him last season for our goals. We had no one else chipping in.

However, it also looks like the team are still blending and I don't think we should judge for another 5-10 games. I like the look of Wilson and Ward - they both have energy, get forward well, can cross etc etc. They seem to have fitted in well - the others not so much. I'm not so worried about loss of Knight but if Bird goes we'll be in trouble. He seems to be the shining light this season and his touch, poise and passing, along with Hourihan, can unlock this division. We just need those around those two to click properly, especially on the left where we seem to be impotent... Never mind a new sticker, get a left sided winger in.

[NottsRam77]

9 hours ago, Andicis said:

Didn't we fire managers at the first difficulty under Mel? How did that work out for us? "But this is different". No, it isn't. It's time for us to learn our lesson as a club.

This

while like everyone else im disappointed and at the crap what we witnessed last night.

weve done the managerial merry go round before and it nearly killed us

sadly weve got to sup it up put our big boy pants on and keep our fingers crossed that time allows the players to gel and execute a game plan with greater conviction than last night

 

[Millenniumram]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Our circumstances - trying to rehabilitate after being in financial ruin - dictate the level of patience though, and let’s be honest, we’re in no position to be rash.

Ripping up Warne’s contract will cost money. Dismissing his backroom staff will cost money. Appointing a new manager and his coaching team will cost money. Paying compensation if they are contracted will cost money. Bringing in players for the new manager will cost money.

Money we seemingly don’t have or if we do, we are either not prepared or not permitted to spend it. So which managers would be queuing up to replace Warne in any case?

Warne has been in the job for less than 12 months. He has three years left on a four year contract. He is not getting it right at the moment, that’s plain to see, but surely Clowes will be thinking: maybe things will look different in 20-30 games?

We have to stay calm and Warne has to step up and show what he can do. It’s a 46 game season, not a 4 game season, after all.

You’re right, they probably will do.

Well be on our our way down to League Two

[Kathcairns]

9 hours ago, Andicis said:

We're 3 games in. Clearly Clowes didn't believe in Rosenior as a stand in, that's gone and is now completely irrelevant. What happens if the next guy doesn't get us up the first time? This time next year, people will want him gone. And we end up in the vicious cycle like we did with Mel. Fans never learn. 

Im not into sacking managers, but can you honestly see us improving with the way we are playing at the moment. Its got to be the training, and that is down to the coaching staff, because at the minute we are running about like headless chickens. We cant afford to sack warne so im desperate for things to work out for him, but am very despondent at this time.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Kathcairns said:

Im not into sacking managers, but can you honestly see us improving with the way we are playing at the moment. Its got to be the training, and that is down to the coaching staff, because at the minute we are running about like headless chickens. We cant afford to sack warne so im desperate for things to work out for him, but am very despondent at this time.

I can see us improving, yes. I think the players are a bit fragile in confidence after a poor start, and that probably isn't helping the errors being made at the back. I think a few positive results not any changes the outlook of the fans, but also probably gives the players confidence to play better football. I don't think the football, or results we are presently seeing is the norm. 

[CBRammette]

6 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

He seems to be the shining light this season and his touch, poise and passing, along with Hourihan, can unlock this division.

There was zilch of that on display last night playing as we did. Thats my main worry

[CBRammette]

5 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

Im not into sacking managers, but can you honestly see us improving with the way we are playing at the moment. Its got to be the training, and that is down to the coaching staff, because at the minute we are running about like headless chickens. We cant afford to sack warne so im desperate for things to work out for him, but am very despondent at this time.

Exactly how I feel.

[Kathcairns]

27 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I can see us improving, yes. I think the players are a bit fragile in confidence after a poor start, and that probably isn't helping the errors being made at the back. I think a few positive results not any changes the outlook of the fans, but also probably gives the players confidence to play better football. I don't think the football, or results we are presently seeing is the norm. 

To be honest cant see bird wanting to stop, hope i am wrong on this because i think he is the one to build the team round.

[Jourdan]

30 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

This

while like everyone else im disappointed and at the crap what we witnessed last night.

weve done the managerial merry go round before and it nearly killed us

sadly weve got to sup it up put our big boy pants on and keep our fingers crossed that time allows the players to gel and execute a game plan with greater conviction than last night

I think Warne will get the whole season to make his mark, unless we see absolutely no signs of improvement and we look in complete free fall.

I believe we have four home games in seven before the end of September, so as disappointing as recent results have been, the opportunities to put things right will come thick and fast. After ten games, for example, we need to be sitting on somewhere between 15 and 20 points and be showing signs of life.

One win in three league games and three losses in four competitively is terminal to our optimism levels, but in real terms it isn’t terminal to our season and it isn’t enough of a sample to make the call that Warne can not retrieve the situation. So there is definitely an element of having to accept our position, be rational, and let things play out.

However the messaging internally has to be loud and clear - we have time to turn it around but things have to change. Not just for Warne, but for all the football staff, and Clowes too.

We are stuttering and each and every one of them needs to step up and pull together for the benefit of the club. Warne needs to show flexibility with his approach. The recruitment team need to present Warne with viable targets that will actually solve problems, not create them. Clowes needs to green light as many signings as permissible.

[Marriot Ram99]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

This

while like everyone else im disappointed and at the crap what we witnessed last night.

weve done the managerial merry go round before and it nearly killed us

sadly weve got to sup it up put our big boy pants on and keep our fingers crossed that time allows the players to gel and execute a game plan with greater conviction than last night

 

I think we may as well re-appoint Paul Jewell or Nigel Pearson for another try if Warne persists with his 5ATB with players who can't run because NOBODY could do any worse.

I'm thinking the penny might have dropped now and we'll revert to 4ATB Saturday and play different,  if not he can go.

[RoyMac5]

11 hours ago, Diego said:

Genuinely like to hear the thoughts to that...

Nope. Reach an agreement with him now and get him and his limited football views out of the Club. All these players want is to win games for Derby that much is clear from their effort. But it won't last while (to nick a phrase) they are being led by donkey's. They need a manager not someone to organise a 'committee vote' using a shoebox!

Edited August 16, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Mick Brolly]

1 hour ago, CBRammette said:

I do agree but unfortunately at the moment we arent getting anything at all out of those we have got. For example PW mentions the importance of set pieces but CHs corners were woeful

I agree but Hourihane's ability to take a decent corner isn't down to warne 

[Anag Ram]

1 hour ago, CBRammette said:

There was zilch of that on display last night playing as we did. Thats my main worry

Thing is, it was so predictable. Given none of our midfield are attack minded, we basically had eight defenders and two forwards to start a home game.

Added to that, neither of the two forwards are good in the air. They are so different they will never be a good pairing.

Plan A is to get it wide and ping it into the box. To whom?

If Warne can’t see that’s a flawed plan then I’m seriously worried.

We discussed this in the East Stand before a ball had been kicked. It’s basic stuff.

[NottmRAM]

For me, it boils down to this:

1. Sloppy passing. This is down to the players and is almost always a confidence thing.

2. Too slow in transition. This is a big problem and the main issue. Last night we moved the ball up the pitch with the pace of erosion. Sideways and backwards passing when we've won the ball in defence. Getting the ball up the pitch quickly is key to creating chances. PW came out after a bad perormance last season and said "I don't think my message was clear. I didn't mean NEVER pass backwards or sideways, but it should be a last resort. We should be always looking to pass the ball forward." That message seems to have changed. PW did make a comment last night about "being braver" and my interpretation of that is looking to move the ball up the pitch instead of playing the easy, short, sideways pass.

3. Bad press. "The press" done right is a good tactic but it has to have the whole team working together for it to work. When the press is not done well, it is easy to pass through it (which is exactly what Oxford did last night for their second goal).

4. We need someone in defence to carry the ball out. This creates space further up the pitch and sets up the move.

5. The players last night did not look like a team. From front to back, there was no cohesion. They were not reading the passes or the runs. This is why it is important to keep the same starting 11. Finding that starting 11 is the tricky part when they have had a bad start and the manager is being asked to find an answer pronto.

[OoooMarkWright]

30 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

 

 

Clowes needs to green light as many signings as permissible.

Why would he? We have wasted a great opportunity in picking up younger free transfers. Those players have now been snapped up. All that is left is the dregs. The has beens. A loan or two is the only option now. The summer recruitment has been an absolute shambles. Everything Warne said he wanted, we’ve gone and got the opposite. I wouldn’t trust him or the ‘recruitment team’ to get the right personnel in now. They need to focus on what we have and sorting it out on the training ground. The level of performance and tactics is a massive worry. We look way off it.

[Mrso]

I guess that we are likely to remain in sight of the Play-offs for the season and that will potentially keep PW in a job.  But nearly everyone in and outside the club expected us to be in sight of top place all season, and frankly that has already gone IMO.  It is just so disappointing when Warne has had more time and far more resources than most League 1 managers.  Even when it comes to free agents it is possible for him to 'turn heads' as our manager that he could never turn at Rovrum.  He has all the advantages and is giving none of the product.  I was unashamedly a LM fan.  At least this time last year we knew what he was trying to do.

[Sussex Ram]

I’ll answer the questions directly. Should we be patient? Yes, we should. I actually think we have no choice as fans to be patient, because for all the talk of “Warne out”, I just cannot see a world in which David Clowes sacks him after three league games. I could be wrong, but I don't think he’ll sack him after 10 or 23, unless he loses the dressing room and we start to free fall. That’s not only because it goes against DC’s publicly stated aim of stabilising the club (a not so veiled jab at the turmoil of the Morris years) but also because we can’t afford to pay off four coaches with three years (?) left on their contract!

It’s an interesting point that some are saying “we’re only three games in” and others are pointing out that Warne has been in place for nearly a year. Both valid views. The question becomes, does he get a clean slate for this season? I’m tempted to say yes. Last season he was making do with a threadbare squad that wasn’t his, and wasn’t suited to his style of play. I’m a generous guy, so I’m willing to judge him on 23/24 alone now he has managed to sign some wing backs and bring 7 of his own players into the squad, and go through pre season with them.

Second question: how does it improve? Now that is the million dollar question! For me, this is the first real test of Paul Warne. Does he have the humility to admit his preferred system doesn’t work? Does he have the tactical ability to reshape the team to take advantage of our players’ best attributes? Does he have the man management skills to motivate the players? To date, there has always been an excuse to fall back on- not “his” team, budget restrictions, small squad, not fit enough, etc. Some excuses do still exist (we ARE still under budget restrictions, albeit looser restrictions- and he has said he wants 2 or 3 players) but those excuses aren’t as impactful as they were. 

He’s proved in the past that he can do it. He has won promotion three times from this league. I really hope he can do it again.