Is "woke" confusing kids

[Mucker1884]

7 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Intrigued as to what you mean by this. Are you saying 11 year olds shouldn't show any non-platonic interest in other people? Genuine question, because I have fond memories of my first kiss at the year 6 disco!

First off... Apologies, but I have no idea what age group "Year 6" refers to, as in my day, it was Infants, Juniors, and Seniors, with the odd 3rd form/5th form etc thrown in to narrow it down a bit!
I will however... rightly or wrongly... take a wild guess and assume that "Year 6" relates to 11 year olds, or an age very close to that.

 

... and in answer to your question, I'm not saying they "Shouldn't", (That's not my call!) but imo, it wouldn't be natural... or even acceptable... to me!

I am saying that...imo... any thoughts, actions, or reactions of a sexual ("Non-Platonic") nature, in an 11 year old, are "not natural".
Now, I'd hasten to add that... again imo... a "peck on the cheek" is a kiss... but not sexual.  I'm tempted to say a puckered lips-to-lips 3 second kiss is also not sexual.
However, if that first kiss involves open mouths/tongues etc, then yes, I'd argue it's sexual... Even as an isolated individual incident, but particularly if it results in stereotypical signs of physical/sexual arousal, and most certainly if it results in one and/or both* participants feeling the need to dash of somewhere more private behind a cubicle door, to "finish off"!  ?
Ergo yes, I'm saying that such an intimate liaison should not be experienced by 11 year olds.

Now, I fully appereciate things change.  Generations change.  The human race keeps-a-changin'.  To a point, even individuals change, but for some of us, certain opinions don't change.  Certain opinions cannot be changed!

The odd 12 year old Peruvian girl becoming a biological mother back in 1979 would/did hit the headlines... because it was seen as being completely out of the ordinary (aka "unnatural").  I've no idea whether such an event in this day and age would raise similar headlines?

I'm not trying to differentiate between right and wrong here, as I don't believe I know the answer to that question.  But I do know my own mind, and the opinion held within.

 You sir, are very welcome!  ?

 

 

*The number of participants herein described were limited to 2 persons, purely for simplification reasons, and does not denote that the writer is some sort of prude, who limits all relationships and experiences... personal, intimate, or otherwise... to a similar number!  ?

 

 

 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

So what are they then women and men or trans - that is the issue currently isn't it? How about those that self-identify?

I believe trans women are trans women , trans men are trans men , it really is that simple , to pretend otherwise can only bring unhappiness to trans people in the long term , accept being a trans person , be proud of being that , find peace in who you are ,

self identify you ask ,,, I really cannot see how anyone can object to someone identifying as a trans man or trans women ,

as for safe spaces for women , no trans woman who has male genitalia should be allowed to use these ??‍♂️

Edited January 26, 2023 by Archied

[BaaLocks]

I agree that things have moved on so in many ways it is harder to consider what the young kids of today are going through. For me, when I was younger, it was more naughty boys in nasty schools, headmaster's breaking all the rules, having fun and playing fools, smashing up the woodwork tools. And as for the support the kids had well all the teachers were in the pub, passing 'round the ready rub, trying not to think of when the lunchtime bell will ring again.

[Mucker1884]

2 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I agree that things have moved on so in many ways it is harder to consider what the young kids of today are going through. For me, when I was younger, it was more naughty boys in nasty schools, headmaster's breaking all the rules, having fun and playing fools, smashing up the woodwork tools. And as for the support the kids had well all the teachers were in the pub, passing 'round the ready rub, trying not to think of when the lunchtime bell will ring again.

That's just madness!   

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

That's just madness!   

Right ,,,,, your both going a step beyond now

[Ram-Alf]

I'm mid 60s now and reading this thread has opened my eyes to the reality's of most Children today,  I  have 2 Grandchildren both boys 13 and 10 years of age,  Their parents have a totally different way of bringing their 2 Children up than I did with my 2 in the mid 70s early 80s, iPhones, 100s of TV channels, School education, Friends of the same ilk.

I was pretty lax with my 2, Stern with a hard look and a warning if owt went wrong, Otherwise when we thought the time was right for both to explore the outside world ie visits to Derby town centre at the age of 12 we let them, Children will do what they believe or their peers believe is right...I know I did at that age.

There wasn't the same pressure there is with todays Children to have all that other Children have, Social media is the biggest driving force for people today(not me tho)Children live by it and so are influenced by it, And yes the eldest Grandson has been caught out by his Dad...my Son for misuse.

As for the thread title...I think life is confusing in todays world for Children, I'm glad I do not have those problems that some parents have today.

     

[Alph]

The consensus seems to be then that it's probably more confusing for adults to understand than the kids as @TigerTeddsaid.

Weird part of having to think that kids might have to teach grown ups about acceptance. 

I just didn't like the idea of Ofsted and schools getting kids thinking about their gender and sexuality. In my eyes it should be left for them to discover and my role as a parent to accept whatever my kids become. 

I don't like the idea of them being lead by trends and internet crusades. But I suppose it just showing how out of touch you become. Quite quickly apparently. 

It's interesting to hear @Duracellsay that kids are confused by everything and will change their minds so much. Because that just makes me think that they need these schools to not start making them think about their gender and sexuality. Surely confused enough as happened with my daughter who does know what Lesbian and non binary mean. But not a clue how to identify if she is those or anything else. 

in my head that makes her growing up more of a minefield. 

I can accept I'm wrong though. 

[Eddie]

I'm just getting used to calling my grand-daughter 'Alex' instead of 'Lexy'.

No problem with the name change - it's the 'grand-daughter' bit that's now confusing me.

[Stive Pesley]

39 minutes ago, Alpha said:

The consensus seems to be then that it's probably more confusing for adults to understand than the kids

Yeah nail on the head for me

Teaching kids about diversity and inclusion can only lead to a happier society in the end IMO . Most of us here will have grown up in an era where you just didn't talk about it anything that didn't conform to societal norms. Pretty much all my gay friends of my age didn't come out until they'd already lived a pretty unhappy life in the closet for far too many years. 

Kids are information sponges these days - never ceases to amaze me how much my 12 year old knows, just from reading wikipedia pages. He never has to have an idle thought/question that goes unanswered. Makes me realise how under-utilised our brains were as kids.

Ultimately kids don't stay kids. They will mature and use all the information they have to decide who and what they are. It may seem like a lot to teach them at a young age, but we're equipping them for a happier future

 

Let's not forget that it wasn't that long ago that so much of this was suppressed that gay men would routinely join the priesthood to avoid the shame of not getting married. And then in turn the horrors that caused by having so many repressed unhappy people in positions of trust amongst children

I don't think it's perfect, but it's better than what we grew up with

 

[BondJovi]

As a parent of a 3y boy and 11 month old girl, I do have concerns about what we are expecting young minds to handle. As a society we seem to be rushing our way through life and we expect kids to be grown up far younger than my generation.

At primary school age they are impressionable, do we really need to be giving potential to 10-11 year olds questioning their own sexuality? They love to give the impression that they are grown up and there is a huge variation in maturity levels.  It concerns me the state of our nations mental health. Pretty sure yo yos were in trend again when I was in y6! I never really liked them so I felt a bit left out. On the flip side,  young children are far more accepting of differences and maybe in the long run it is what needs to be done.

When I started secondary school in 99, we didn't have a uniform. The way you dressed was part of your identity. But these were all things that could easily change. Me spending my school years in various band t-shirts, didn't say anything other than the music I liked. Would I have felt a different pressure if I felt I needed to identify as something other than the shirt on my back? When I started that school, the perceived gay in school was a figure of fun. By my last year in 6th form, no one cared about that anymore, several openly.

Social media promotes this notion of ideals. How you must look, how you should feel. A view of how much fun everyone else is having. And the vast majority is a facade. 

Maybe I am just out of touch believing that we should be encouraging our children to embrace what they do have. See the good in who you are. You only get so many years to be a child, it shouldn't be spent with pressures.

And all that before we get to these kids are growing up with the planet fecked and the country in shambles.

I have probably phrased my thoughts badly, but I feel we are making life very tough and confusing for the children of today, when really it should be the time you treasure most. 

I guess we will only know if it is the right path when they reach our age!

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by BondJovi
Added some extra thoughts.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

Raising kids as I always,say is the most imortant "job" any adult will ever have, yet there is no training for it. The world we live in, social media, woke, so many variations of gender etc. has made it even more difficult i think. My kids are now yound adults so the job is done (I think?) but reading through this and "trying" to keep up with the worId makes me realise that parenting is not going to get any easier any time soon.

Anybody tried to ask ChatGPT? ?

[Rev]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Let's not forget that it wasn't that long ago that so much of this was suppressed that gay men would routinely join the priesthood to avoid the shame of not getting married. And then in turn the horrors that caused by having so many repressed unhappy people in positions of trust amongst children

I have to say, I find this a strange take. 

A repressed gay man doesn't turn to paedophilia through lack of choice, that's a lazy trope I thought we'd moved beyond.

[BaaLocks]

I remember when my children got to that age my over riding concern was that I could no longer protect them from the outside world. There are a lot of nasty people out there (from school bullies all the way to people doing things we don't even want to talk about). Up till then I could make sure (pretty much) they were protected but when they get to the age your daughter is at all of a sudden they are open to influences, thoughts and ideas that you have no way of filtering for them. I felt a little helpless and even guilty that I was somehow letting them loose into this world full of danger.

If I may, all I would say is that I am sure you have 'fuelled' them well with the right thought processes and the ability to make the right decisions at the right time when the wrong people come along with the wrong ideas. That's all you can do - the pre-match team talk and then hope they play the right game when they get the chance.

I'm sure you were more than shocked when your daughter dropped her little surprise on you but as an outsider looking in I see a brave girl not scared to make the decisions that she feels are the right ones. I don't mean about what letter she feels she wants to pin her sexuality to but the point is she seems to have thought it through and come to a conclusion that feels right to her. As for whether you will be attending Pride rallies with her in twenty years time, at that age I thought Tommy Docherty was going to be a great manager for Derby. It's hard to see the full picture at that age, whatever that picture may end up being, and it sure isn't set in stone at eleven.

[ariotofmyown]

Great thoughtful opening post @Alpha and @TigerTedd your long post was fascinating.

I have two 12 year old boys are they just mention that someone at school is trans in the same unimportant way as they might say they have a pet cat. 

From the posts on here, and from many examples I'm aware of, it does feel girls are much more likely to announce their diversity than boys. Maybe more stigma exists for boys still, but perhaps the maturity of girls is also why...they could just think more about these things earlier.

I guess some kids might exagerate different things to appear different or cool, but on the whole, it's a good thing they can be what they want to be. And definitely an improvement to days gone by when kids who were different would probably live in fear of ever being "found out". I remember one boy in my form leaving my school when another boy told people he'd tried something on. Or another kid achieving almost heroic status as him and his mates hunted down a supposed gay kid who had tried something with his brother.

[Wolfie]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

From the posts on here, and from many examples I'm aware of, it does feel girls are much more likely to announce their diversity than boys. Maybe more stigma exists for boys still, but perhaps the maturity of girls is also why...they could just think more about these things earlier.

 

Seems that way with my daughter. She & her friends will spend time talking about feelings and boys & stuff, where as they boys (she tells me) are only interested in kicking footballs and play-fighting - which usually gets them banned from kicking the football!

I remember about 15 years ago when my niece (about 12-13 at the time) was always saying someone in her class had just announced they were gay or bi (they almost always weren't), seemingly for effect. I suppose in a couple of years when Miss Wolfie is that age, she'll be telling me about the gender fluid, pansexual or trans announcements instead.

[ariotofmyown]

23 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Seems that way with my daughter. She & her friends will spend time talking about feelings and boys & stuff, where as they boys (she tells me) are only interested in kicking footballs and play-fighting - which usually gets them banned from kicking the football!

I remember about 15 years ago when my niece (about 12-13 at the time) was always saying someone in her class had just announced they were gay or bi (they almost always weren't), seemingly for effect. I suppose in a couple of years when Miss Wolfie is that age, she'll be telling me about the gender fluid, pansexual or trans announcements instead.

It does feel that many of the worse elements of social media impact girls more than boys too.  Boys may be more likely to become incels/terrorists but that is tiny numbers. If they avoid that, they should be alright. 

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

It does feel that many of the worse elements of social media impact girls more than boys too.  Boys may be more likely to become incels/terrorists but that is tiny numbers. If they avoid that, they should be alright. 

What about the 'influence' of Andrew Tate? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64234568

"Intelligent, articulate and disciplined - that's how secondary school teacher Charlotte Carson describes Andrew Tate, the online influencer who is a role model to many of the boys at her school in Belfast.

But the problem is, she says, Andrew Tate is also pathetic, insecure, and promotes "Taliban beliefs" about how to treat women.

Schools across the UK are encountering increasing numbers of pupils who admire Tate - and so teachers are having to work out how to respond.

Some are actively putting out guidance on how to talk about him, as part of a concerted attempt to tackle his influence.

Tate, a former kickboxer, has millions of online followers - despite being banned from sites including TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube for misogynistic comments.

He's currently detained in Romania, alongside his brother Tristan, as part of an investigation into allegations of human trafficking and rape - which they both deny.

[ariotofmyown]

41 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What about the 'influence' of Andrew Tate? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64234568

"Intelligent, articulate and disciplined - that's how secondary school teacher Charlotte Carson describes Andrew Tate, the online influencer who is a role model to many of the boys at her school in Belfast.

But the problem is, she says, Andrew Tate is also pathetic, insecure, and promotes "Taliban beliefs" about how to treat women.

Schools across the UK are encountering increasing numbers of pupils who admire Tate - and so teachers are having to work out how to respond.

Some are actively putting out guidance on how to talk about him, as part of a concerted attempt to tackle his influence.

Tate, a former kickboxer, has millions of online followers - despite being banned from sites including TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube for misogynistic comments.

He's currently detained in Romania, alongside his brother Tristan, as part of an investigation into allegations of human trafficking and rape - which they both deny.

I did put above the line you bolded about incels and terrorists. There are obviously some bad people out there that can influence boys and girls.

By point though was that social media in general could be more of a negative to girls than boys.  Not from bad people spreading hate, but just how girls communicate differently to boys and how they form and maintain social and friendship groups, let alone the certain pressures that society puts on them. 

[Scott129]

46 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What about the 'influence' of Andrew Tate? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-64234568

"Intelligent, articulate and disciplined - that's how secondary school teacher Charlotte Carson describes Andrew Tate, the online influencer who is a role model to many of the boys at her school in Belfast.

But the problem is, she says, Andrew Tate is also pathetic, insecure, and promotes "Taliban beliefs" about how to treat women.

Schools across the UK are encountering increasing numbers of pupils who admire Tate - and so teachers are having to work out how to respond.

Some are actively putting out guidance on how to talk about him, as part of a concerted attempt to tackle his influence.

Tate, a former kickboxer, has millions of online followers - despite being banned from sites including TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube for misogynistic comments.

He's currently detained in Romania, alongside his brother Tristan, as part of an investigation into allegations of human trafficking and rape - which they both deny.

I suspect this is why, in Alpha's original post, his daughter was "asked about any boys approaching her or being inappropriate to her or anyone else?"

[Normanton Lad]

On 26/01/2023 at 11:34, Alpha said:

If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it. I don't care what she is so long as she's what she wants to be. I dunno if I have a right to be annoyed that inspectors chose to go into school to put this all on kids? It's bloody adults that create any barriers! Initially it's made me angry that they approached her with this stuff in Year 6. 

All sensible parents must know by now that our government has been lying to them all their lives. If you don't expect them to tell the truth why would you trust our government or their agents (teachers) to be able to tell your children what is right and wrong.

It is up to the parents to pass on moral standards and the traditions you want your children to keep.  If the schools are brainwashing your children with nonsense you need to teach your children about cults and deprogramme them.

If you accept all this nonsense yourself then there is no hope for you or your children.