Comrade 86 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Crewton said: That would be a fine thing indeed. Do you think there's any possibility that the more aggressive element among the pro-Trans lobby will be able to respect that principle? If they could, it would be a big boost for those who have seen their careers ruined and voice 'cancelled' (including many concerned people in the LGB community) for something as simple as pointing out that sex is immutable and therefore, for example, Transwomen are Transwomen and not Women? And it is predominantly men wanting to be able to call themselves women who are at the forefront of the most aggressive campaigning. Women wanting to be Men seem to have been largely silenced in the debate. Why am I not surprised? J K Rowling is wealthy enough to bear the consequences of her support of women, many of the others targeted by Trans Rights activists aren't. The "silencing" has to stop but its not the TQ+ group who have suffered most from the practice. Like I said, live and let live. No single group's rights override another's. That goes for all, not just the self-elected, but let's have it right here, not all TQ+ are as militant as your portrayal. Far from it. Archied and GboroRam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Like I said, live and let live. No single group's rights override another's. That goes for all, not just the self-elected, but let's have it right here, not all TQ+ are as militant as your portrayal. Far from it. I specifically referred to "the most aggressive element" - I know that allot of Trans people feel that they too have been silenced by the loudest voices - that should have been self-explanatory. maxjam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Crewton said: I specifically referred to "the most aggressive element" - I know that allot of Trans people feel that they too have been silenced by the loudest voices - that should have been self-explanatory. Condescending much? I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Condescending much? I'm out. That's a strange response. I believe what you were doing is known as "gaslighting" - I don't think it was condescending of me to point out that you were accusing me of writing something that I clearly didn't write or infer. maxjam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) I'm sure there are better places to conduct this boring culture war "debate". It was much better when people were talking about first hand experiences rather than things they had read in a "news"paper. Edited February 11, 2023 by ariotofmyown Comrade 86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 8 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: Nonsense. Our lecturer at work insisted on having done so. Watching India Willoughby on Question Time a week or so ago, the words "I'm a biological woman" were repeated over and over. This is the narrative. This is why bodily mutilation is part of it. Of very vulnerable young people. If what you are saying is true, I'm in agreement. But I've literally never heard anything like that. Not saying it's not true, as there's always somebody saying something others will find objectionable. How prevalent is it though? Not a topic I spend much time looking into, so on that basis, I'm out (of the conversation). Carl Sagan and Comrade 86 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 The case of Kate Clanchy is a prime example of where "cancel-culture" has done great damage to a respected author's career over very little. Look it up on the web if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Not sure if I am Arthur or Martha when it comes to this subject. It seem though it is now fashionable to say I’m out. So. I’m out. Norman, Crewton and Mucker1884 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 11 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: Todays kids should be more confused as to why they will not be able to retire as early as their grandparents did. "woke" and the faux rage about it is a huge diversion to stop people questioning wtf is going on in the world. I don't think it's faux outrage from everyone, yes there are some who are manufacturing outrage but people like Jonathan Haidt have subtle, nuanced yet very serious concerns about the role of social media, polarisation, moral panics, and safety culture. A lot of this is questioning what is going on with the world, it's questioning the broader social and political norms and environments which are already undergoing a sea change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 55 minutes ago, GboroRam said: If what you are saying is true, I'm in agreement. But I've literally never heard anything like that. Not saying it's not true, as there's always somebody saying something others will find objectionable. How prevalent is it though? Not a topic I spend much time looking into, so on that basis, I'm out (of the conversation). Arguing trans people are 'biological women' (actually not true) is very much in vogue atm. I'm pretty certain if someone at my uni denied this then they'd be in front of a disciplinary hearing Crewton and Carl Sagan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, i-Ram said: Not sure if I am Arthur or Martha when it comes to this subject. It seem though it is now fashionable to say I’m out. So. I’m out. Sorry for the delay... I've just added a laughing reaction, as I was out when you posted. i-Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Just heard little bits about demonstrators outside Tate Britain demonstrating against drag queen story hour for children , they are labelled as far right extremists,,, why ? drag queen story hour for children is very questionable and inappropriate for children in my view and I don’t believe that makes me far right , the drag queen doing the story hour also has some very questionable views ( posted on Twitter or Facebook in the past ) , it goes to the heart of this whole debate for me , we really need to be letting our children be children ,this kind of stuff is just stirring up fear and division , there are many many trans people who really don’t want this and just want to live their lives as happily as possible, I’ve seen a couple of trans women interviewed who speak with real sense about being dragged into these culture wars they want no part of but sadly they don’t get much of a voice , it always the extremes on both sides that shout the loudest , set the tone and cause problems for everyone Edited February 11, 2023 by Archied Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Archied said: Just heard little bits about demonstrators outside Tate Britain demonstrating against drag queen story hour for children , they are labelled as far right extremists,,, why ? Well, it took me about 2 minutes to read about it on the Daily Mail website (for balance), where they identified the far right group who were protesting. Imagine if your life was so rubbish that you went to the Tate to protest about a drag queen reading a story! Why can't we just go back to the good old days, where children were children and where child abuse was basically legal and we all turned a blind eye to elites, religion, teachers, celebrity djs, royals, football coaches etc doing whatever they liked. That seems much better than one drag queen reading a handful of kids a story. Where will it end!!!!! I hope the protestors don't get inside the Tate, they might possibly come across some art they might not agree with! Like Who will think of the English children. Not those foreign children though, as it seems the same group like to protest against them too. There are very fine people on both sides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: Well, it took me about 2 minutes to read about it on the Daily Mail website (for balance), where they identified the far right group who were protesting. Imagine if your life was so rubbish that you went to the Tate to protest about a drag queen reading a story! Why can't we just go back to the good old days, where children were children and where child abuse was basically legal and we all turned a blind eye to elites, religion, teachers, celebrity djs, royals, football coaches etc doing whatever they liked. That seems much better than one drag queen reading a handful of kids a story. Where will it end!!!!! I hope the protestors don't get inside the Tate, they might possibly come across some art they might not agree with! Like Who will think of the English children. Not those foreign children though, as it seems the same group like to protest against them too. There are very fine people on both sides! So your in favour of drag queens going into schools to do story hour as is happening now not just today at the Tate ? and before you spout about panto dames they are dressed very differently and a total difference vibe Edited February 11, 2023 by Archied Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 16 minutes ago, Archied said: So your in favour of drag queens going into schools to do story hour as is happening now not just today at the Tate ? and before you spout about panto dames they are dressed very differently and a total difference vibe What's your problem with drag queens? ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 55 minutes ago, Archied said: So your in favour of drag queens going into schools to do story hour as is happening now not just today at the Tate ? and before you spout about panto dames they are dressed very differently and a total difference vibe I think all children should be removed from their families and given to drag queens to look after, as that is clearly where we are heading by April. Although, will be kids become drag queens if this happens at their school. Could be a good career perhaps? You know much more than I do though, including a lot about how they dress vs panto dames, who are ok I guess as they have been around for ages. Like how you quickly skip past the part about how this was actually a far right protest. And how did you not realise it would be. Who else would waste their time on such a worthless endevour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said: What's your problem with drag queens? I’ve got no problem with drag queens , I’m an adult , they are adults , no problem??♂️, my question is who has decided it’s policy to introduce drag queen story hour into schools and why ??♂️ Edited February 11, 2023 by Archied Carl Sagan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 54 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I think all children should be removed from their families and given to drag queens to look after, as that is clearly where we are heading by April. Although, will be kids become drag queens if this happens at their school. Could be a good career perhaps? You know much more than I do though, including a lot about how they dress vs panto dames, who are ok I guess as they have been around for ages. Like how you quickly skip past the part about how this was actually a far right protest. And how did you not realise it would be. Who else would waste their time on such a worthless endevour? And yet you avoid the question are you in favour of introducing drag queen story hour into schools , seems a very bizzare left field move to me despite all the silly guff you post above always intrigued by why people avoid speaking plainly ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: What's your problem with drag queens? I've always been a little bemused by them. Can you explain to me exactly what they are and how they are meant to be a positive image? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Well, it took me about 2 minutes to read about it on the Daily Mail website (for balance), where they identified the far right group who were protesting. Imagine if your life was so rubbish that you went to the Tate to protest about a drag queen reading a story! Why can't we just go back to the good old days, where children were children and where child abuse was basically legal and we all turned a blind eye to elites, religion, teachers, celebrity djs, royals, football coaches etc doing whatever they liked. That seems much better than one drag queen reading a handful of kids a story. Where will it end!!!!! I hope the protestors don't get inside the Tate, they might possibly come across some art they might not agree with! Like Who will think of the English children. Not those foreign children though, as it seems the same group like to protest against them too. There are very fine people on both sides! Do you know these people ? Do you know they’re motivation ?, I don’t , perhaps there were concerned parents ?,must be great to look down on these people and they’re rubbish lives from such a lofty position of superiority, I just heard someone question whether the motivation for wanting to take drag queen story hour into schools is to provoke and fuel the argument around gender keeping it in the news , in which case rather badly using children, someone also posed the question whether it was misogynistic for males to dress up as out landish caricature s of women and why was that acceptable but black face is rightly seen as offensive ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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