Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

1 hour ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

I’d like Warne to be successful and I think he’s a decent person.

We can debate formations and players all day long but I think the difference between us being in the playoffs or not is this “always try to win” mentality.

How many goals have we conceded on the counter attack?

if you are top 2 material then Klopp style all out attack works but, if you are merely a top third-ish of the table outfit, the occasional point on the road, by shutting up shop at better teams, comes in handy at the end of season.

 

Managers like Warne cant win in that situation though.

If he goes all out and he's naive and should know better.

If he shuts up shop he's too negative and Derby fans should expect better.

[Andicis]

Just now, Kokosnuss said:

...likewise it must also be posting in bad faith to discredit or downplay those victories by applying those arguments only to our opposition.

We beat those teams when we ourselves hadn't 'really gotten going' and were, owing to our own circumstances, at an automatic disadvantage. No matter the oppositon's state of readiness or form at the time they were all ahead of us in some regard.

Many of Warne's points gained this season were achieved during a 'streaky spell' during which time the squad had reached the peak of its fitness for the season, so all being equal you'd to apply the same balances for and against those results. 

Over the course of a season it's safe to assume that the teams who finished lower down the table were prone to having more bad runs of form than good runs of form - you're more likely to face them during a bad run - so you can see why a teams position at the end of the season is used.

It may be a bit lazy and not all that accurate but nobody has time to factor all of this in and do a full analysis of form game by game.

How is that bad faith? It is the exact opposite. It's acknowledging that it is relevant to consider form at the time when evaluating performances. That's quite literally trying to establish a fair way to discuss performances. I am not downplaying, I'm providing context. 

Yes, your way to look at it is more lazy. I don't see how you can take issue with me considering form when looking into early fixtures though.

[May Contain Nuts]

16 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

the anti Warne brigade

 

Remind me, who's trying to create division on the forum?

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Oldben]

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/jeff-stelling-issues-verdict-on-paul-warnes-derby-county-future-after-play-off-disappointment/

Sky Sports presenter Jeff Stelling has urged Derby County to stick with Paul Warne after missing out on the League One play-offs.

From my own point of view, he got Rotherham fc, promoted on several occasions and on a very low budget.

Our owner spent a lot on buying the club out of a potential bankruptcy. 

Then he brought in a league one promotion specialist, gave him a 4 year contract worth several million. The owner trust Warne. 

Warne inherited a team thar weren't his choice, littles changed since thar time. He's been constricted by not having a transfer budget. 

In the summer we almost didn't meet the league requirements to for a team, we had to bring in a lot of players as free agents, just to survive.

We are rebuilding, as the old saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Our squad requires an overhaul and its difficult to do on just free agents.

Warne wants to bring in better players than we have now, but he's not allowed to spend money doing that.

Doesn't matter that when I watched games in the 1970s, 80s etc we faced different struggles. We are where we are.

Doesn't matter that we are punished by the efl, that it might appear unjust.

What matters is that there's a job to be done in rebuilding the team. There's a job to be done in rebuilding the club's reputation.

I've previously listed free agents that are available and might play for us at this level, the general response seemed to be 1% are players we might want to sign. A very narrow field, good job we have a new head of recruitment to help with the rebuild.

[May Contain Nuts]

24 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I'm providing context. 

And then not applying it equally. 

It's right to acknowledge that form plays a part but it doesn't outweigh everything else, but your post leans toward doing that.

However, I don't actually think what you said was in bad faith, but I don't agree with your labelling of bad faith in the post you were quoting either.

And it isn't 'my way to look at it' - I think it would be great if someone could devise an accurate system to provide a full analysis of every fixture and apply a plus/minus to the points tally based on form, injuries etc! 

Obviously that's never going to happen though.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Tamworthram]

9 minutes ago, Oldben said:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/jeff-stelling-issues-verdict-on-paul-warnes-derby-county-future-after-play-off-disappointment/

Sky Sports presenter Jeff Stelling has urged Derby County to stick with Paul Warne after missing out on the League One play-offs.

From my own point of view, he got Rotherham fc, promoted on several occasions and on a very low budget.

Our owner spent a lot on buying the club out of a potential bankruptcy. 

Then he brought in a league one promotion specialist, gave him a 4 year contract worth several million. The owner trust Warne. 

Warne inherited a team thar weren't his choice, littles changed since thar time. He's been constricted by not having a transfer budget. 

In the summer we almost didn't meet the league requirements to for a team, we had to bring in a lot of players as free agents, just to survive.

We are rebuilding, as the old saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Our squad requires an overhaul and its difficult to do on just free agents.

Warne wants to bring in better players than we have now, but he's not allowed to spend money doing that.

Doesn't matter that when I watched games in the 1970s, 80s etc we faced different struggles. We are where we are.

Doesn't matter that we are punished by the efl, that it might appear unjust.

What matters is that there's a job to be done in rebuilding the team. There's a job to be done in rebuilding the club's reputation.

I've previously listed free agents that are available and might play for us at this level, the general response seemed to be 1% are players we might want to sign. A very narrow field, good job we have a new head of recruitment to help with the rebuild.

Just shows how little knowledge and awareness Sterling has of our situation. Whether we like it or not (I’m still part of the Warne in camp at the moment) there is zero chance (IMO) that he will be sacked because we “only” managed to finish 7th. I would imagine even if we’d finished two or three places lower the thought of sacking Warne wouldn’t be going through DC’s mind.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Kokosnuss said:

And then not applying it equally. 

It's right to acknowledge that form plays a part it doesn't override everything else, but your post leans toward doing that.

However, I don't actually think what you said was in bad faith, but I don't agree with your labelling of bad faith in the post you were quoting either.

And it isn't 'my way to look at it' - I think it would be great if someone could devise an accurate system to provide a full analysis of every fixture and apply a plus/minus to the points tally based on form, injuries etc! 

Obviously that's never going to happen though.

The post I was originally responding to considers the final form of teams we played in the first 7 games. I would say that is fairly irrelevant as so much has changed in those 40 games since we played those teams. I think that's a pretty weak metric of comparison.

Form doesn't override everything sure, but providing that helps to consider that it is probably more difficult to face a side in a purple patch than a side slumping on a 5 games losing streak. We faced Barnsley under Warne when they were on red hot form (away from home), and when they were slightly stuttering under Rosenior. 

I agree with you on the latter stage, it's only something I'm looking at because with Rosenior having only a few games you can look into the context more easily. My main interest here is that comparisons made are with at least some kind of fair basis.

[Tyler Durden]

30 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

 

Remind me, who's trying to create division on the forum?

 

Come on, grow up. 

Can't you see by your reaction how you've contrived to reinforce the exact point I made which you're attempting to argue against?

[Ram-Alf]

47 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The debate is running along the same lines as the protagonists whom believe that the EFL have instructed all referees to give contentious decisions against us etc which to be fair has died down a huge amount save the usual hardcore of posters whom won't be swayed by reason or fact.

 

Have you ever gone to bed but unable to get to sleep for a while, It happened to me last night(no I sleep on my own)over and over again I played CDs back pass, The Ref pointing to the spot and pulling the Red Card out, The speed of which would have made Paul Daniels blush, Several times I watched the incident and several times I'm shaking with anger, CD makes a poor back pass, Wildsmith hesitates for a split second, CD chases the ball and does a butterfly touch on the player, He crumples up and takes a "Dive" yes a dive, This is how football has gone this last decade and more.

There in NO conspiracy...just awful officials, Jimbo Ram reminded me yesterday concerning McGoldrick being flagged for offside when clean through...the freeze frame puts him onside, Another piss poor decision by a piss poor official, We've been let down time and time again as have other teams(Barnsley yesterday 2 pens denied)by poor officials, Next season will be no different except most likely more shocking officials and bad decision making by them.

Yesterdays loss has left a bad taste in our mouths, But it wasn't yesterday that cost us...it was previous games where we failed to turn up, A lesson I hope that has been noted.

 

[May Contain Nuts]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

The post I was originally responding to considers the final form of teams we played in the first 7 games. I would say that is fairly irrelevant as so much has changed in those 40 games since we played those teams. I think that's a pretty weak metric of comparison.

 

I do see your point and I think your analysis here works well for individual games.  

As I said though, the teams who end up down the bottom go on more poor runs of form than good ones, and vise versa so the likelihood of playing against a poor team in the midst of a purple patch isn't very high.

Even then the purple patch may only have involved them playing against teams of a similarly weak standard, so that can potentially  dilute the usefulness of using form as a guide.

On the whole I just don't see using a teams final position as some big bad unfair metric, but I don't see much of an alternative when it comes to discussing a season as a whole (which I can see now you weren't doing anyway)

 

 

[May Contain Nuts]

36 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Come on, grow up. 

Can't you see by your reaction how you've contrived to reinforce the exact point I made which you're attempting to argue against.

What bizarre little games you play. 

Me grow up? Have a look in the mirror. Maybe have a wash too, the stench of smug superiority isn't particularly pleasant.

The point I'm arguing against is that this group of what you label 'anti-Warners'  exists to the extent that is often portrayed.

Also that the people who perceive them to exist, and use that label, are typically the ones seeking to sew the seeds of division, something you've provided a fine example of.

So no, I'm really not sure how me displaying my boredom at the recurring theme reinforces whatever point it is you think you're making. 

If the very presence of a reply to you somehow presents evidence of you being correct about something... well I simply won't bother again.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[AndyB]

At this moment I trust David Clowes. He has signed Warne on a 4 year deal and therefore Warne will be our manager next season. Owners largely succeed on their recruitment of managers. I hope Clowes made a good decision.

Managers largely succeed on their recruitment of players. Warne hasn’t had much chance yet. He will know this summer’s transfer window is huge for him and the club.

By around November we’ll have a sense of how we’re doing. Personally I think anyone judging Clowes or Warne before then is being a little premature.

[alram]

3 hours ago, Loughborough Ram said:

I think the 'style' issue is a difficult one because a lot of football fans have been brainwashed into thinking that unless you have 50 passes through the lines, starting with the goalkeeper then you play ugly football.

This argument has been strengthened by the dogged insistence that stats and possession data should dictate the future of football. Its a strange one because somebody like Brian Clough who hated hoofball, never played out from the back, however he was considered a manager who played good football.

Anybody who watched our game yesterday couldn't describe us as a long ball team. We largely played the ball on the floor and as far as I'm concerned, if we do that quickly, we have more chance of catching the opposition out of position.

Warnes style will be defined next season when he has the players he wants, but I'd say that the signs so far are promising that we will play a fast, pressing, attacking style of football.

i agree about the brainwashing stuff. 

 

i find teams that play from the back and just tippy tap it absolutely boring and a terrible style of football.

 

for me good football and a good style is aggressive, high intensity football played at a very quick pace. football is boring when played slowly, it doesnt matter whether you hoof it or pass it from the back, its boring to watch

 

we will know more about warne based on who he recruits this summer, i dont want old cloggers that are set up for hoof ball. i want young quick players that can travel with the ball.

Edited May 8, 2023 by alram

[Blondest Goat]

5 minutes ago, alram said:

i agree about the brainwashing stuff. 

 

i find teams that play from the back and just tippy tap it absolutely boring and a terrible style of football.

 

for me good football and a good style is aggressive, high intensity football played at a very quick pace. football is boring when played slowly, it doesnt matter whether you hoof it or pass it from the back, its boring to watch

 

we will know more about warne based on who he recruits this summer, i dont want old cloggers that are set up for hoof ball. i want young quick players that can travel with the ball.

There's more than one way to win a game of football.  I couldn't disagree more with your comments about what makes football exciting or boring.  Can't abide games of pinball type football where neither team are capable of stringing 3 passed together.  We've seen plenty like that this season.  Away to Wycombe springing to mind. Total lack of skill and control.  We're all different though aren't we?  

[RoyMac5]

7 hours ago, Mihangel said:

...For what it's worth, I'm an outlier on the positive side - Given the age, size and profile of the squad, playing 57 games - I think it's a fantastic effort. Our oppenents yesterday used 14 more players accross the season. Imagine if we'd been able to use 14 more players....

Warne likes a small squad, and when you look at who he did bring in in January it's not very comforting. But since then we've gotten new recruitment people in, so it's got to be better? Just can't get over not getting *any* other striker in, lack of goals has cost us.

[TomTom92]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Warne likes a small squad, and when you look at who he did bring in in January it's not very comforting. But since then we've gotten new recruitment people in, so it's got to be better? Just can't get over not getting *any* other striker in, lack of goals has cost us.

I know from our previous exchanges you don’t buy in to the tired squad excuse. I personally do. 
 
Can’t help but think that the drop off of goal contributions from anyone other than McGoldrick suggests somethings amiss and for me it was due to fatigue. 

Agree with you regarding the striker comment but not sure this would’ve got us over the line. We need goals throughout the squad. 

[Blondest Goat]

2 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Agree with you regarding the striker comment but not sure this would’ve got us over the line. We need goals throughout the squad. 

Literally one more goal in any number of games would've got us into the playoffs so bringing in another striker would almost certainly have made a difference.

[TomTom92]

43 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Literally one more goal in any number of games would've got us into the playoffs so bringing in another striker would almost certainly have made a difference.

Not sure it would’ve got us up. We’ve been flagging for awhile. 
 
I agree we needed another striker.  It think the impending overhaul of the squad will be were we strike gold or not.

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

I know from our previous exchanges you don’t buy in to the tired squad excuse. I personally do. 
 
Can’t help but think that the drop off of goal contributions from anyone other than McGoldrick suggests somethings amiss and for me it was due to fatigue. 

Agree with you regarding the striker comment but not sure this would’ve got us over the line. We need goals throughout the squad. 

Yet Warne continued to start NML, even starting him in a non-winger slot so his brain had to work harder too! The goals started coming from Barks and he got dropped, Sibs showed he could but had few chances (thought he looked poor yesterday though, maybe injured?). Kept relying on Dobbin who couldn't hit a cow's botty with a banjo! Hourihane seemed to get into the box less but yesterday showed he was 'tired' as he had a generally good game.

The managing of the players was in question as far as I'm concerned. He spent too long trying to shoe-horn players into his favourite system and not enough getting the best out of the way they could play cf long unbeaten run!

If Lampard and Rowett have to take the blame for our failures then so does Warne.

Edited May 8, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Carl Sagan]

Is there seriously any suuggestion of not continuing with Warne? That way madness lies. 

It's incredibly disappointing not to reach the playoffs, and the manager has made mistakes along the way, but I think he's our best hope of going up next season. Even if it weren't for the likely situation that we couldn't possibly afford to sack him and the others coaching staff, and pay compensation. David Clowes is not a super-rich owner, and had to spend a vast proportion of his wealth to save the club.

With a full season and better knowledge of the players at his disposal, and of what's needed, and a summer to do a little (restricted) recruitment, we will go again with the same managerial team. We hope the campaign will end with better results. If Wednesday go up then it means we will be left as solely the biggest draw in terms of an attractive place to play, with a huge fanbase, great facilities and decent wages, which will enable some decent incomings.