Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Is there seriously any suggestion of not continuing with Warne? That way madness lies. 

It's incredibly disappointing not to reach the playoffs, and the manager has made mistakes along the way, but I think he's our best hope of going up next season. Even if it weren't for the likely situation that we couldn't possibly afford to sack him and the others coaching staff, and pay compensation. David Clowes is not a super-rich owner, and had to spend a vast proportion of his wealth to save the club.

I can't agree with that statement. But I will agree that Warne is probably our best bet currently, even if I'm not convinced. Still that's what the summer transfer window is for isn't it, or so many are saying. We will see. I hope he gets it right because I hate League 1 football.

[TomTom92]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yet Warne continued to start NML, even starting him in a non-winger slot so his brain had to work harder too! The goals started coming from Barks and he got dropped, Sibs showed he could but had few chances (thought he looked poor yesterday though, maybe injured?). Kept relying on Dobbin who couldn't hit a cow's botty with a banjo! Hourihane seemed to get into the box less but yesterday showed he was 'tired' as he had a generally good game.

The managing of the players was in question as far as I'm concerned. He spent too long trying to shoe-horn players into his favourite system and not enough getting the best out of the way they could play cf long unbeaten run!

If Lampard and Rowett have to take the blame for our failures then so does Warne.

It’s a disappointment but if we go up next season nobody is going to be moaning about this season. Next season is where I think we can judge more harshly. But agree there’s definite chinks in Warne’s amour.
 

[Wolfie20]

1 minute ago, TomTom92 said:

It’s a disappointment but if we go up next season nobody is going to be moaning about this season. Next season is where I think we can judge more harshly. But agree there’s definite chinks in Warne’s amour.
 

Why "judge more harshly" - why not just "judge?"

[TomTom92]

6 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Why "judge more harshly" - why not just "judge?"

Because people are entitled to judge now. But in my opinion Warne deserves the summer to recruit and I’ll be harsher on my assessment with this in mind.

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yet Warne continued to start NML, even starting him in a non-winger slot so his brain had to work harder too! The goals started coming from Barks and he got dropped, Sibs showed he could but had few chances (thought he looked poor yesterday though, maybe injured?). Kept relying on Dobbin who couldn't hit a cow's botty with a banjo! Hourihane seemed to get into the box less but yesterday showed he was 'tired' as he had a generally good game.

There have been two obvious faults to my mind, which I've highlighted in your post. And they are both strange. When on song, NML has clearly been one of our best players and major threats. But anyone can see he has huge fitness issues. It's presumably what's stopped him playing at a high level. I genuinely hadn't seen anything like it when he arrived - a player who only had 45 minutes in him and then walked the rest of the match he was on the field for. We built him up to be able to play for an hour, but there was a price, and that price is he's dropped off it the last several games and been totally ineffective, clearly exhausted physically and mentally. He needed a rest for maybe 2 or 3 weeks. It never came.

And then, this team that are pretty much the worst finishers in the division, saw Warne mainly play Sibley at left back and then when he finally had a sensible role in the team, always saw him hooked first, despite our often desperate need for that magic and inventiveness up front. Despite me reading that Warne said Sibley is "the best finisher at the club". 

So I understand your concerns and feel Warne can't have a blank cheque. And these two frustrations are what make me question his judgement more than anything. But, it's weird that all managers do stupid things. And Warne seems to do less than most. I would give him all of next season, when we're still under restrictions. Hopefully that works. Hopefully we're also building a fighting fund that we can't spend at the moment. But will be able to next summer. After that it becomes a major test of any manager, but the contract is simply too long to sack him now, and many performances have been decent enough to suggest we should stick with him. He is proven at this level, with this his worst season. And I feel the players have the ability, but bottled it and let him down. Overall, the manager has performed better than his charges.

[Raich Carter]

"And I feel the players have the ability, but bottled it and let him down. Overall, the manager has performed better than his charges."

That sums it up for me. From the way PW talks, he's quite a thinker. Of course he's not going to come out and say 'Sibs is a good player but just doesn't fit my system' or 'we're desperate for a RB but can't sign one so I'm sticking Knighty there when I'd much rather have him in midfield', etc, etc.

PW, for the benefit of the team, has to say positive things. Remember when Our Nige slated that lad he signed from Wigan (Polish striker - can't remember his name - began with a C - getting old is rubbish) on Radio Derby; saying something like 'he can go back to where he came from'. Whilst that might be his own feelings (and might be right), literally no good comes from saying it. Nor would there be any good coming from PW neg'ing (as they say) anything about the current squad in terms of balance or individuals - also, nothing could be done about it.

So yep, I think he did a good job all considered. 

[jimtastic56]

Lots of football “Experts” talk about playing out from the back , and the need for a midfield player that can go and press , being a supreme athlete, making tackles high up the pitch. Then he has to create or score a goal. ( We had one once called Craig Bryson) . Even at tier 3 , I think this should be the first player on Paul’s shopping list. And the place to look could be all the young players released by top clubs in the summer.

[May Contain Nuts]

19 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

"And I feel the players have the ability, but bottled it and let him down. Overall, the manager has performed better than his charges."

That sums it up for me. From the way PW talks, he's quite a thinker. Of course he's not going to come out and say 'Sibs is a good player but just doesn't fit my system' or 'we're desperate for a RB but can't sign one so I'm sticking Knighty there when I'd much rather have him in midfield', etc, etc.

PW, for the benefit of the team, has to say positive things. Remember when Our Nige slated that lad he signed from Wigan (Polish striker - can't remember his name - began with a C - getting old is rubbish) on Radio Derby; saying something like 'he can go back to where he came from'. Whilst that might be his own feelings (and might be right), literally no good comes from saying it. Nor would there be any good coming from PW neg'ing (as they say) anything about the current squad in terms of balance or individuals - also, nothing could be done about it.

So yep, I think he did a good job all considered. 

Hang on, you've just described the total opposite of the approach Warne takes to interviews.

It's one of the reasons some were so enamoured with him from the start, praising his openness, honesty, the way he says it as he sees it and the 'refreshing' lack of a generic-management-speak' filter. (Which I agree with)

Maybe not quite NC "he can go back where he came from" levels but there have been a few times during the season when he has said stuff that's stood out as a bit odd and counterintuitive.

[i-Ram]

I’m up for Warne having all of next season. Irrespective of contract length Clowes has to give him a further 12 months to objectively determine his performance, and our general direction of travel.

As much as we need a step up in team/squad depth and quality, we also need to see Warne make the step-up. He still seems like a Rotherham manager to me, both in terms of style and mentality. 

[Raich Carter]

7 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Hang on, you've just described the total opposite of the approach Warne takes to interviews.

It's one of the reasons some were so enamoured with him from the start, praising his openness, honesty, the way he says it as he sees it and the 'refreshing' lack of a generic-management-speak' filter. (Which I agree with)

Maybe not quite NC "he can go back where he came from" levels but there have been a few times during the season when he has said stuff that's stood out as a bit odd and counterintuitive.

Sorry, you're right - I wasn't clear. I think that behind the openness and accessibility, he's actually a thinker. He's very self deprecating  and almost always positive and talks a lot about others perspectives  but there's a few little comments he's made that makes me think he's spent some time on himself in terms of principles and philosophies. I watch / read quite a bit about performance management and he's definitely used some terms and approaches I've seen elsewhere but I think he's (rightly) careful to add a lot of humility/humanity to it.  

I'm not saying he's Aristotle, just that I think there's a bit more to him than comes across in his interviews.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Raich Carter

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Raich Carter said:

Remember when Our Nige slated that lad he signed from Wigan (Polish striker - can't remember his name - began with a C - getting old is rubbish)

Tomas Cywka ("Siff-ka")

[Raich Carter]

7 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Tomas Cywka ("Siff-ka")

That's him. Now 34 years old and playing as a CDM apparently!

[HorsforthRam]

A few comments saying PW is a small club manager and isn’t big enough for Derby. On a practical level, what is it that a “bigger” club manager brings to the table that Warne hasn’t at our current level?

[Ghost of Clough]

17 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

A few comments saying PW is a small club manager and isn’t big enough for Derby. On a practical level, what is it that a “bigger” club manager brings to the table that Warne hasn’t at our current level?

The most obvious points to me are:

1. Knowledge of a category 1 academy, including development of youngsters.
2. Tactical differences in how other teams face us (sit back and counter) vs how it is at smaller clubs such as Rotherham (push further up and play on the front foot)
3. Quality of facilities and staff capabilities which dwarf smaller clubs

[VulcanRam]

I think, broadly, we're about here with it all? (*edit: views taken from 165 pages of the thread!)

 

PROS: Great pedigree in getting promotion from league 1;

inherited a team that wasn't his and not necessarily suited to what he wants and got them to within a whisker of the play offs;

has got a tune out of an old players/young players/players who haven't had this much football/running in a game for a long time;

had a long unbeaten run which got us into the top 6;

popular at the club and in the dressing room;

comes across well with good honesty and ethos

 

CONS: Failed on the last day when a play off place was in our hands;

terrible run of form in February and March;

boring/dire/no brand of football that doesn't best suit his players;

tactically unable to respond to opposition changes, particularly in second halves of games;

too late or ineffective with substitutions/wrong substitutions;

unnecessary team changes, especially with players on form

 

So surely those who are pro Warne can see some areas he can improve on, while those anti-Warne can see there is plenty to praise him for. No need for polarised viewpoints.

There. Now we can all get along. 🐏

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by VulcanRam

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The most obvious points to me are:

1. Knowledge of a category 1 academy, including development of youngsters.
2. Tactical differences in how other teams face us (sit back and counter) vs how it is at smaller clubs such as Rotherham (push further up and play on the front foot)
3. Quality of facilities and staff capabilities which dwarf smaller clubs

I'm as concerned by having a manager who freely admits to not wanting to be a manager, how much has that changed and how much effort does he put into being a 'modern' manager rather than a dinosaur. I hope he wants to be innovative in his job. 

[Andicis]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm as concerned by having a manager who freely admits to not wanting to be a manager, how much has that changed and how much effort does he put into being a 'modern' manager rather than a dinosaur. I hope he wants to be innovative in his job. 

What is a modern manager Roy?

[i-Ram]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

What is a modern manager Roy?

One who wears trainers.

[Jubbs]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

What is a modern manager

Liam Rosenior.

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

What is a modern manager Roy?

Don't know Andicis just thought I'd see who I could catch.