The Administration Thread

[Eatonram]

I just hope that no one in the football world forgets the unique factor in our current situation and that is the claims of two other EFL members......never done before and will probably never be done again because of rule changes.

 

We've taken our punishment and probably the longest embargo ever, all the less visible punishments have hurt us as much as the points deductions.

Have the EFL not noticed that media coverage has lost interest in the promotion race, and is now more interested in DCFC survival fight?? DCFC is the story and the EFL once again just dont get it.

I think we will survive, but I KNOW, we won't FORGET.

[I know nuffin]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

We could win the arbitration as their claims are  hilarious  which would mean we could go ahead with a takeover all parties agreeing.

Also there is a proviso to go to Civil Court which will scare the hell out of the EFL .

I wonder just wonder if the EFL might bottle this in the end and back down from arbitration 

Might have it wrong but I get the feeling the arbitration is to decide if it is a football debt or not. If it is not the administrators will use the cram down method and give them nothing. If it is football debt then it goes to court to get it thrown out as they have no standing

[atherstoneram]

1 minute ago, I know nuffin said:

Might have it wrong but I get the feeling the arbitration is to decide if it is a football debt or not. If it is not the administrators will use the cram down method and give them nothing. If it is football debt then it goes to court to get it thrown out as they have no standing

Does anyone know the process of arbitration, e.g. what is looked at to get to the result, it certainly isn't just a formality saying sorry you don't have a claim.

[Curtains]

31 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Might have it wrong but I get the feeling the arbitration is to decide if it is a football debt or not. If it is not the administrators will use the cram down method and give them nothing. If it is football debt then it goes to court to get it thrown out as they have no standing

Well we don’t know at this stage what they are arbitrating on .

 

[Curtains]

29 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Does anyone know the process of arbitration, e.g. what is looked at to get to the result, it certainly isn't just a formality saying sorry you don't have a claim.

I think it needs to be defined what exactly they are looking to arbitrate on. 
 

Maybe we won’t know until we get the outcome 

[Van der MoodHoover]

8 hours ago, i-Ram said:

They only have a 180 degree reach. The other half is full of fish.

Turn right and you quickly bump into Portsmouth. No love lost there. 

And there isn't any fish in Southampton water. A few inflatable boats tho.... 

[twelveincher]

1 hour ago, Eatonram said:

I just hope that no one in the football world forgets the unique factor in our current situation and that is the claims of two other EFL members......never done before and will probably never be done again because of rule changes.

 

We've taken our punishment and probably the longest embargo ever, all the less visible punishments have hurt us as much as the points deductions.

Have the EFL not noticed that media coverage has lost interest in the promotion race, and is now more interested in DCFC survival fight?? DCFC is the story and the EFL once again just dont get it.

I think we will survive, but I KNOW, we won't FORGET.

I won’t forget. I hope “**** the EFL” rings out around PP for years to come, I hope 10000 people from the football community March through Preston to the EFL HQ.

The Bury MP was right, nobody seems to be going out their way to come up with a solution, it’s all just sound bites

[uttoxram75]

Other clubs fans I talk to at work don't seem to realise that, whatever we did wrong, we have been punished for under the rules of the EFL. When you can explain face to face to them what has happened to DCFC in terms of the disciplinary process we have endured, you can see the light bulb flicker.

Points deductions, transfer embargo, wage caps, no covid money, its all been done (or ongoing). We have taken the full might of the ruling body's wrath for Morris' wrongdoings and are now in administration facing possible liquidation.

Gibson knows full well that the longer he forces his mate Parry to stop us being taken over, the more chance we will fold. Even though we have been punished. Its as if our survival would be seen as somehow we've gotten away with it.

There is no point talking to complete and utter morons on a Boro forum who have no idea and no interest in actually looking at the facts.

[Van der MoodHoover]

7 hours ago, i-Ram said:

He was rubbish wasn't he!! ?  I knew Matt quite well when I lived in Southampton back in 1995 (my then wife was good friends with his then wife). Really nice guy.

Lives round the back of us now. Still see him out and about walking the dog. He still turns up at the local primary school to run little training sessions with the kids. Top local guy. 

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, StrawHillRam said:

I think majority  means 2 out of the 3 appointed arbitrators who are supposed to be independent

..but when they're appointed / chosen by the club to represent them I don't really see how they can be totally independent.

They're still employed to put over 'their' side aren't they? You're not going to choose someone to represent you who isn't going to put across your side of the argument?

..so if Boro, Wycombe & the EFL get to choose their representative and we choose ours, effectively it's still 3 against 1? 

I suppose that's similar to a court of law where your solicitor doesn't necessarily have to believe you're totally innocent but will defend you in legal terms to the best of their ability? But then this isn't a court of law.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

..but when they're appointed / chosen by the club to represent them I don't really see how they can be totally independent.

They're still employed to put over 'their' side aren't they? You're not going to choose someone to represent you who isn't going to put across your side of the argument?

..so if Boro, Wycombe & the EFL get to choose their representative and we choose ours, essentially it's still 3 against one?

I suppose that's similar to a court of law where your solicitor doesn't necessarily have to believe you're totally innocent but will defend you in legal terms? But then this isn't a court of law.

I believe...

1. prosecuting side choose one person

2. defending side choose one person

3. The two chosen barristers choose someone between them

Edited February 1, 2022 by Ghost of Clough

[Oldben]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I believe...

1. prosecuting side choose person

2. defending side choose one person

3. The two chosen barristers choose someone between them

I'm concerned that according to the rules, when a general decision can't be reached, a majority vote carries the day.

There's no opportunity for appeal.

There's no jury.

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, Oldben said:

I'm concerned that according to the rules, when a general decision can't be reached, a majority vote carries the day.

There's no opportunity for appeal.

There's no jury.

Imagine a situation where 3 people on a disciplinary panel decide one way only for their decision to be overturned by majority on an arbitration panel.

4 people voting 1 way, 2 voting another, then it's the voice of the 2 which stands with no right to appeal...

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Didn't the EFL say L2 is a possibility in those circumstances? ?

That was Nixon 

[Tamworthram]

29 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I believe...

1. prosecuting side choose one person

2. defending side choose one person

3. The two chosen barristers choose someone between them

According to my reading of EFL rule 98.3, the EFL appoint the third arbitrator and that person will be the chair person.

The arbitrators must be either a solicitor or barrister of at least 10 years standing.

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, Alty_Ram said:

That response to RT is pathetic but sadly predictable. The EFL seem genuinely perplexed as to why we have such a low opinion of them.

There has been much shouting and stamping of feet in our cause recently and a really good high profile media and political awareness campaign but the two speculative claims of such a magnitude that I can't see any arbitration bringing about an acceptable compromise. Even if we agreed to or were brow beaten into paying them something, a compromise on a hell of a large number liek Boro are demanding is still a hell of a large number. It just isn't going to happen.

If we’re were forced to make any payment then it’s a free for all - ludicrous situation 

[Tamworthram]

54 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

..but when they're appointed / chosen by the club to represent them I don't really see how they can be totally independent.

They're still employed to put over 'their' side aren't they? You're not going to choose someone to represent you who isn't going to put across your side of the argument?

..so if Boro, Wycombe & the EFL get to choose their representative and we choose ours, effectively it's still 3 against 1? 

I suppose that's similar to a court of law where your solicitor doesn't necessarily have to believe you're totally innocent but will defend you in legal terms to the best of their ability? But then this isn't a court of law.

There will only be three arbitrators according to EFL rules. They should all, in theory, be independent but can’t help be more sympathetic and understanding to the case of the party that selected them. I would imagine the administrators will select one of the QC’s they have already sought legal advice from for example.

Whilst they’re hardly our allies, I’m not convinced the EFL will really be in the Wycombe/Middlesbrough camp on this one. Given all the noise maybe they would prefer for this to go away.

[Elwood P Dowd]

23 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

If we’re were forced to make any payment then it’s a free for all - ludicrous situation 

 

25 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

According to my reading of EFL rule 98.3, the EFL appoint the third arbitrator and that person will be the chair person.

The arbitrators must be either a solicitor or barrister of at least 10 years standing.

If there was ever a chance for the EFL to show how open and fair their processes are this is it but instead Rams trust get that arrogant reply to their request.

I don’t trust EFL and have no faith in their ability to deliver a fair process.

I see people are posting that if we lost  the arbitration we could seek redress in a civil court, by the time we got the issue to a civil court I suspect Derby County would be long gone?????

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Elwood P Dowd

[europia]

21 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

Surely if the EFL are saying they are football creditors it is up to us to go down the legal route.

They are not creditors, football or non football. The definition of a creditor is a person or company to whom money is owing. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by europia

[davenportram]

2 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I think he was refering to the new from scrath clubs that fans formed and started way down the non-league pyramid.

Ahh but they’re both different to a club whose parent company is liquidated and the club is then run by a new company. 
 

bury and Wimbledon are Phoenix clubs - not the original clubs with a new company in charge