The Administration Thread

[Eatonram]

15 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Football is a different business to all other businesses.

not in terms of tax law I doubt.

[Eatonram]

31 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

It was stated in parliament that HMRC would not be the reason for the clubs demise so people automatically think they will accept 25%.

All HMRC have to do is offer a payment plan of 25% upfront with the remainder paid off in monthly instalments over 3 years. By the looks of things there is no way any interested party would agree to that so HMRC can then turn round and say they offered to help the club out by taking the outstanding monies owed in instalments but the new owners refused the plan.

And in such a scenario HMRC would therefore lose millions in revenue.

[RipleyRich]

48 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I’d think MSD does have reasonable security cover. Otherwise they wouldn’t have made a further working capital loan to the admins. It’s been suggested by various people they have a PG from MM, also that they have a £20m cash deposit from him  -  and that in addition to security over the club and stadium 

On HMRC: you repeatedly suggest the HMRC rule change was aimed at the football sector. It wasn’t, it applies generally. Q told us HMRC recognised the club as a community asset and were expected to play ball - why don’t you believe them?

Do you believe anything they say?

They also wrote "That" article.

TBH I don't know who I believe.

[atherstoneram]

3 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

not in terms of tax law I doubt.

No but there are not many other businesses that have people on Thousands of Pounds a week apart from those at or near the top.If clubs can afford to pay that they can afford the tax bill,anyway we will see what happens.

[atherstoneram]

2 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

And in such a scenario HMRC would therefore lose millions in revenue.

Might be millions to the likes of us but it is a pittance to HMRC.

[BramcoteRam84]

22 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

The administrators reputation would not be destroyed, if they can't get the parties to come to some sort of agreement there is nothing they can do.They can't force people to do something they are unwilling to do. It is the state of the finances which is the problem not the administrators,they are not miracle workers.

I get that but do you really think it will look good on them if Derby get liquidated, when you look at the comms, when you look at the level of interest, they will say they took the impossible job but they still took it on Mel’s/MSD terms (stadium not part of it) so will be tarnished by it.

Q won’t be the main losers I agree. The bidders will lose (they want the club) and Mel will lose along with all the creditors. The stadium is useless, I’m sure I read there is a covenant that it has to be used for football, therefore without a football club it’s worthless, not to mention Mel’s reputation being further shattered. 
 

There is too much at stake for the parties for a deal not to be done, no deal in this scenario would just be plain stupidity.

[Oldben]

If MA is only willing to pay 15p on the pound, then the Q cant accept that offer.

It doesn't look great for Derby.

If MSD and HMRC wont reduce their demands, and there's no way Q will find a better offer than the offers that have been made.

That doesn't look good for Derby.

[strawhillram]

To quote Debbie Harry and Blondie -  One way or another I think we are getting close to the end of this debacle. 
No idea what the end looks like though

[England Ram]

If you liquidate Derby you get relatively nothing.
What assets do we have?  
1) 5/6 player contracts that would be sold for relatively nothing to the EFL.  

2) A name of a football league club. Relative to whoever might want to buy it, if anything. Worth nothing in liquidation  

3) Football related sports equipment and gym equipment. Would struggle to reach 6 figures with everything from the training ground and stadium at liquidation rates  

4) Computer equipment and assorted office paraphernalia that we own and don’t rent. Maybe £200,000 at liquidation rates, probably much less. 
 

Can’t think of anything else we own as a club. 
Probably worth £500,000 to £1 million at the 20%-40% trade value at liquidation auctions. 
 

If it comes to that then the actual debt situation is way worth than we thought and most creditors get nothing as there’s literally nothing left. 

[Gaspode]

11 minutes ago, England Ram said:

If you liquidate Derby you get relatively nothing.
What assets do we have?  
1) 5/6 player contracts that would be sold for relatively nothing to the EFL.  

2) A name of a football league club. Relative to whoever might want to buy it, if anything. Worth nothing in liquidation  

3) Football related sports equipment and gym equipment. Would struggle to reach 6 figures with everything from the training ground and stadium at liquidation rates  

4) Computer equipment and assorted office paraphernalia that we own and don’t rent. Maybe £200,000 at liquidation rates, probably much less. 
 

Can’t think of anything else we own as a club. 
Probably worth £500,000 to £1 million at the 20%-40% trade value at liquidation auctions. 
 

If it comes to that then the actual debt situation is way worth than we thought and most creditors get nothing as there’s literally nothing left. 

But if you turn that on it's head, thatt's pretty much all one of the bidders gets if they pay £30M+ - no wonder wer're struggling to get any proper interest.....

[Tyler Durden]

Is there a legal timescale on all of this? Not interested in the EFLs arbitrary measures.

When does a business get liquidated if there never is going to be any real prospect that a buyer will clear the debts to pay off the creditors? There must be some defined finite timescales.

Or in our case will it simply come to us folding as we don't have enough funds available to carry on trading as a going concern which will supercede the above?

Edited April 1, 2022 by Tyler Durden

[Ramarena]

1 hour ago, JfR said:

Might be a little something of interest over at Preston
Looks like the Kirchner bid has fallen through there, as well

 

What has become of the heroic saviour we allegedly ignorantly dismissed?

 

[scout's dad]

I see Kirchner's bid to own Preston North End has fallen through.

[Woodypecker]

Obviously, Kirchner is a lillywhite when it comes to buying The Lillywhites 

 

 

 

 

?

[strawhillram]

12 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

What has become of the heroic saviour we allegedly ignorantly dismissed?

 

I was hoping he’d buy them so we could judge him on how he ran them

[ilkleyram]

5 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

But if you turn that on it's head, thatt's pretty much all one of the bidders gets if they pay £30M+ - no wonder wer're struggling to get any proper interest.....

But that's not true.  If a bidder buys the club for (say) £30m then they get the club trading as a business - season ticket and other income, TV income, sponsorship income, goodwill and all the other things that go with a football club.  They buy one of the founders of the league (at the moment) well managed by one of England's all time great players, they get training facilities and an academy with Cat1 status and a fantastic reputation in this area, they get one of the biggest fanbases in the lowest 3 divisions.  They buy potential - a club that's always looking to go upwards even if the trajectory might be the opposite way and they buy opportunity. 

Never (I suspect in the history of English football) will an owner have had such an opportunity to balance the books, to create a business model that works - the player wages/contracts will be the lowest they've ever been, not only in pounds, shillings and pence but also as a % of income.  And they buy a staff and fan group pretty demoralised by the events of the last 6 months off the pitch. In short they can create a club almost from scratch and turn negativity into positivity almost overnight.

We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time.  And, relatively, cheap too - not necessarily in terms of how the deal stacks up as a deal but how much you might have to spend on a company giving you similar opportunities.  We can be profitable and we can be fun to own.

And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

[hintonsboots]

34 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

To quote Debbie Harry and Blondie -  One way or another I think we are getting close to the end of this debacle. 
No idea what the end looks like though

The problem is, Q are leaving too many bidders hanging on the telephone.

[RadioactiveWaste]

The thing to remember with brinkmanship is, if it goes wrong, you go over. If it's not at the brink yet, it's just posturing.

[strawhillram]

1 minute ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

The thing to remember with brinkmanship is, if it goes wrong, you go over. If it's not at the brink yet, it's just posturing.

The art of brinkmanship is very difficult to master. Brinkmen at the highest level have taken years to develop their skills. Brinkmanship in the hands of an untrained novice is dangerous and in some countries is actually illegal.

The best brinkmen in the world have gone on to do great things and change the world we live in.

 And then there is Mel Morris

[Abu Derby]

7 hours ago, Ramifications said:

Don't forget Stevie Nicks is 73 years old now. Puts things in perspective. 

Doesn’t look much over 60 to me. He’s had grey hair for a while now though