Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[i-Ram]

1 minute ago, Wolfie20 said:

That's your best post in ages - well done  ?

Thank you. Your encouragement and support is much appreciated.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Gibson's claim was over sale of PPS which was found to be totally legit.  So Gibson certainly did not have him over a barrel.

Morris desire to sell the club goes back to 2018-19 when Lampard was in charge, and  before any EFL action. Endless delay in what are you referring to? Selling the club? Not sure what point you are making. Obviosuly neither the EFL action nor COVID has helped in the sale of the club. Team's performances are not helping either.

 

 

 

 

I think Gibson has had a vendetta against MM which he’s conducted through his influence at the EFl board, as well as through legal action and threats. Gibson is I believe determined that Derby should be relegated and that MM should be squeezed for every penny. This is in part why it was taking so long for the EFl to resolve our dispute. (We contributed to the delay, through continued creative accounting). The dragging of EFl feet was referred to by MM in his RD valediction.   He also stated quite candidly that in his view so long as he was the owner, resolving the EFl dispute in a timely fashion was impossible. There was a suggestion in the first Quantuma interview that they had advised the same, when asked for input 3 weeks before admin. In Hoskins’ recent TS interview he implied that the EFL foot dragging had continued but that things were improving (he said something like: ‘they are NOW engaging with us’). Of course the Gibson faction hate our club as well as MM, so it’s naive to think the admins will get an easy ride  

The full time EFl brigade have connived in this vendetta to a degree, I think because they believe MM has been aggressive, discourteous and disingenuous with them. Which to a degree is true. 
 

By ‘Gibson had MM over a barrel’ I simply mean that the Gibson camp understood they had the power through foot dragging to prevent a sale by MM and in the meantime force MM to continue to bleed cash into the club. It’s quite possible MM was willing to continue to fund. But that the reason he pulled the plug was because he would not have Gibson force him to do so. It all got too personal and MM must share the blame for that.  
 

Sure he’s been willing to sell for years. But the need became pressing as covid losses mounted. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

59 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I think Gibson has had a vendetta against MM which he’s conducted through his influence at the EFl board, as well as through legal action and threats. Gibson is I believe determined that Derby should be relegated and that MM should be squeezed for every penny. This is in part why it was taking so long for the EFl to resolve our dispute. (We contributed to the delay, through continued creative accounting). The dragging of EFl feet was referred to by MM in his RD valediction.   He also stated quite candidly that in his view so long as he was the owner, resolving the EFl dispute in a timely fashion was impossible. There was a suggestion in the first Quantuma interview that they had advised the same, when asked for input 3 weeks before admin. In Hoskins’ recent TS interview he implied that the EFL foot dragging had continued but that things were improving (he said something like: ‘they are NOW engaging with us’). Of course the Gibson faction hate our club as well as MM, so it’s naive to think the admins will get an easy ride  

The full time EFl brigade have connived in this vendetta to a degree, I think because they believe MM has been aggressive, discourteous and disingenuous with them. Which to a degree is true. 
 

By ‘Gibson had MM over a barrel’ I simply mean that the Gibson camp understood they had the power through foot dragging to prevent a sale by MM and in the meantime force MM to continue to bleed cash into the club. It’s quite possible MM was willing to continue to fund. But that the reason he pulled the plug was because he would not have Gibson force him to do so. It all got too personal and MM must share the blame for that.  
 

Sure he’s been willing to sell for years. But the need became pressing as covid losses mounted. 

In essence Steve Gibson isn't very nice and the fact the EFL can have people elected to their board at the same time as having ongoing disputes with other member clubs is absolutely laughable.

[hintonsboots]

If ever a regulator needed regulating, it is the EFL. They come across as a vindictive body, who thrive on self regulation. They should be disbanded and moved on mass to govern a Country such as Uganda. I hope the IDC are fair and rigorous in their decision and make their views on both sides in this dispute, public.

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

If ever a regulator needed regulating, it is the EFL. They come across as a vindictive body, who thrive on self regulation. They should be disbanded and moved on mass to govern a Country such as Uganda. I hope the IDC are fair and rigorous in their decision and make their views on both sides in this dispute, public.

Well yes. The big hoo haa going on about the Government not accepting the results of an independent commission, and wanting to change the rules.

well the Efl didn’t accept the results of an independent valuation of PPS. No one else challenged it , not HMRC or anyone.  When they lost to an independent commission they changed the rules to stop stadia sales being allowed for.

the EFL didnt accept the results of an independent audit, so complained to an INdependent commission who also agreed with our auditors. So they complained to another panel , one without any accountants on it to get the answer they wanted.

but even then they couldn’t get what they wanted a points deduction. And couldn’t accept the results of that independent commission either, being disappointed with it.

 

now they are Said to be shocked we are appealing to another independent panel. And want to change the rules on that too to stop clubs doing that.

I mean really how sleazy can the EFL get before they get closed down?

 

[MuespachRam]

13 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Ther are a number of factors as to why Derby are where we are. I don't think there has been any "shenanigins", if anything the EFL are far more guilty of "shenanigins" in my view.

Mel Morris spent too much in players wages .. (although never more than about half the highest spenders in the EFL) had he not been  so silly with players wages he might have more in his pocket now when we needed someone to bail us out. But that was three years ago.

What has caused the current problem is COVID. 

 

 

 

Because covid famously only happened in Derby…..?

[RoyMac5]

49 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

Because covid famously only happened in Derby…..?

Because our situation wasn't the same as other clubs. What is so difficult to understand?

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

Because covid famously only happened in Derby…..?

Some clubs have survived COVID some .. Derby and Wigan haven’t . Same as most people have survived COVID so far 99.8%. Doesn’t mean that COVID wasn’t cause of death for the other 0.2%

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Some clubs have survived COVID some .. Derby and Wigan haven’t . Same as most people have survived COVID so far 99.8%. Doesn’t mean that COVID wasn’t cause of death for the other 0.2%

Not really sure Wigan is a comparable case. They were absolutely shafted by someone who had just taken over the club (having passed the EFL's fit and proper person test I might add). It certainly wasn't much to do with COVID.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Some clubs have survived COVID some .. Derby and Wigan haven’t . Same as most people have survived COVID so far 99.8%. Doesn’t mean that COVID wasn’t cause of death for the other 0.2%

Absolutely.

Same in the world of business outside of football. Some businesses have folded due to the impact of Covid but others have survived.

Those that have gone may have been flying a bit too close to the sun but, none the less, they may well still be around if it hadn't been for the pandemic.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

3 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Because covid famously only happened in Derby…..?

You must be a delight to live with. 

[alram]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Some clubs have survived COVID some .. Derby and Wigan haven’t . Same as most people have survived COVID so far 99.8%. Doesn’t mean that COVID wasn’t cause of death for the other 0.2%

you really need to pull your head out the sand if you GENUINELY believe we are in this situation because of covid. absolute and utter delusion.

[sage]

1 minute ago, alram said:

you really need to pull your head out the sand if you GENUINELY believe we are in this situation because of covid. absolute and utter delusion.

Do you think we would be in administration now if Covid hadn't happened?

[PistoldPete]

50 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Not really sure Wigan is a comparable case. They were absolutely shafted by someone who had just taken over the club (having passed the EFL's fit and proper person test I might add). It certainly wasn't much to do with COVID.

True. And yet Wigan appealed … did people make a fuss about that even though Wigan’s force majeure appeal had far less merit than ours? I don’t remember that anyone did. Was maguire saying no no it’s nothing to do with COVID they’re taking the proverbial? I don’t recall that he was.

[alram]

19 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

A lot of this comes down to how much of Mel's personal wealth your think he should put towards the club to keep it afloat.

There's also a difference between blaming Mel for our poor P&S position and blaming him for administration. 
After all, if the future projections don't show the club being self-sustainable if it wasn't for Covid, then the administrators wouldn't have appealed. The reason being, if the projections don't show that, then administration was inevitable and the appeal is quickly dismissed.

There is also very little chance the administrators will give us away to a "crook or conman". Already we have 1 credible (albeit not relatively wealthy) bidder, with a few others watching eagerly. The admin team will pick the best candidate.

If you get a club in a terrible situation due to your wreckless and careless spending, you should be putting the money up to keep it in exsistence. If a man and club genuinely run out of money that is a completely different conversation.

Mel put us in admin completely volenterely. The crook or conman comments is based on not them being criminals, it was a flippant comment, they may pass all the tests required but does that make them a suitable owner? that is my point, clubs in admin attract poor owners as a rule because they know they can get a club easily.

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, alram said:

you really need to pull your head out the sand if you GENUINELY believe we are in this situation because of covid. absolute and utter delusion.

So why do you think the administrators are appealing? Are they delusional? They strike me as very impressive and very switched on to me.

[Ambitious]

53 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Not really sure Wigan is a comparable case. They were absolutely shafted by someone who had just taken over the club (having passed the EFL's fit and proper person test I might add). It certainly wasn't much to do with COVID.

I think Wigan's case was a couple of months after Covid so it was always unlike.y 

I do agree that 'well other clubs managed it...' doesn't stand up too well. Jeff Bezos managed to keep his business going through COVID where hundreds of thousands around the world couldn't. 

I just don't see how an independent panel will want to open up this door. The force majeure was written into the rules for this exact reason, but I'm fairly confident that it still doesn't mean anything. I honestly don't think there was any point putting it in the rules in the first place.  

 

[alram]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

Do you think we would be in administration now if Covid hadn't happened?

YES! We absolutely would be. We were losing MORE money prior to covid happening, Mel has had enough. It is NOTHING to do with covid.

[alram]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

So why do you think the administrators are appealing? Are they delusional? They strike me as very impressive and very switched on to me.

Because what have they got to lose? They don't care about spending the clubs money, if it works they get a pat on the back, if it doesn't it just adds onto the already huge costs anyway. THAT is why they are appealing, NOT because they somehow have some grand plan that we have been hard done by.

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, alram said:

If you get a club in a terrible situation due to your wreckless and careless spending, you should be putting the money up to keep it in exsistence. If a man and club genuinely run out of money that is a completely different conversation.

Mel put us in admin completely volenterely. The crook or conman comments is based on not them being criminals, it was a flippant comment, they may pass all the tests required but does that make them a suitable owner? that is my point, clubs in admin attract poor owners as a rule because they know they can get a club easily.

Look there is an appeal. The appeal will then publish its findings. They may find Mel had pots of money and could easily have avoided administration . Or they may not.

Let’s wait and see shall we?