Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

No, the point is that if a once-in-a-hundred-years pandemic hadn't been allowed to take hold of the country by (arguably) government complacency and negligence, would DCFC have been in the position whereby it was no longer able to meet its obligations to creditors?

What you appear to be arguing is that the club should have been in a position to ride out any comparable storm, but since EFL rules don't require clubs to prove they can do that regardless of the force majeur event, I don't believe the appeal can simply be struck out on the basis that its finances should have been more robust, provided the club can demonstrate that its income was materially reduced as a result. 

We'll see when we get the outcome quite honestly I'm more concerned about the self fulfilling prophesy mentality that if we lose the appeal this will then further prove that the EFL has some kind of vendetta against us rather than accepting whatever judgement we get and then accepting the reasons behind it which may not be to do with Covid at all 

Anyway here's in hope that the appeal is successful.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

The reason for my post was asking a legitimate question not being on the forum for a number of weeks - is our appeal based on the assertion that we are in our current predicament due to Covid? I don't know the ins and outs of our appeal but if the content of it hasn't been disclosed fully then that's not something which can be shared on here.

Ultimately whether the appeal is valid or not is immaterial to me, whatever the outcome is that is what the outcome is and if it's a reduction in the points deduction then all well and good.

I just don't want the handwringing on here and cries of the world is against us if the appeal isn't successful.

I hope that the EFL will look at the merits of our case impartially and make an informed judgement but if the appeal isn't successful then people accept that the judgement on that basis.

Anyhows we'll see I guess 

From the Wigan appeal (para 62)

"We reject the submission of Mr Taylor QC that there were other, also effective, causes,
including the significant increase in the Club’s players’ wages and on transfers. That
these made the Club increasingly dependent on the owner’s continuing support is clearly
true. But so long as that support continued, the ship would have stayed afloat. It was
only when the owner pulled the plug that it sank."

In Derby's case as spending on transfer and wages has actually been decreasing for some years I would have thought the conclusion that wages and transfers were not the cause would have even stronger effect.

Whether it will be similar with Wigan it was all the owners fault for pulling the plug and not due to covid I think is less clear. Their owner only lasted a few days so not much sympathy for him from anyone.   We shall see. 

My main concern is not what an indepenent panel will decide it could go either way and must abide by that.

But what if there is another insolvency event and the holding company is liquidated. The fate of the club is then entirely in the hands of EFL. We could be expelled from the League.  

And yes, as I have said many times I do not trust EFL any further than they could be thrown.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by PistoldPete

[Woodley Ram]

49 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I hear where you're coming from but you attribute actions against the root cause of an incident not the immediate cause or the same thing will happen over and over again in the future as you've never got to the nub of the true reasons behind the issue happening.

Yes if we didn’t have debts we would have been ok I hope, and yes other clubs have bigger debts. If in a normal season we could pay our bills but due to COVID we cannot then that is the reason we re in administration.  

[i-Ram]

47 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

That’s what I assumed but it’s hardly a fair comparison. I’m sure if we reached a Wembley final now tickets would sell out just as quickly.

Same with pretty much every club, the casual fans suddenly appear when Wembley is involved.

[Van der MoodHoover]

40 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Yeah you should be ashamed. Even I stretch to a new antimacasser for my armchair when it's playoff final day.... ?

[B4ev6is]

7 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do they though? I'm not saying that to be contentious btw. I can't remember the last time I HAD to pay cash for anything, in fact I could have gone out just with my contactless card and not needed cash at all for anything at all.

There probably is a split with the younger generation favouring contactless payments over cash compared to the older generation but for me cash went out with square wheels.

I pay by cash and prefer too by cash as I think safer than card fruad now days.

[winktheram]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

No, the point is that if a once-in-a-hundred-years pandemic hadn't been allowed to take hold of the country by (arguably) government complacency and negligence, would DCFC have been in the position whereby it was no longer able to meet its obligations to creditors?

What you appear to be arguing is that the club should have been in a position to ride out any comparable storm, but since EFL rules don't require clubs to prove they can do that regardless of the force majeur event, I don't believe the appeal can simply be struck out on the basis that its finances should have been more robust, provided the club can demonstrate that its income was materially reduced as a result. 

Interestingly, Maguire's latest podcast seems to suggest we could have reasonably forseen Covid, as SARS, Ebola and the like have been around so it was I inevitable that a global pandemic would hit and we should have been prepared. And Covid is not a force majure event. The man's a menace. 

8 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by winktheram

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

I pay by cash and prefer too by cash as I think safer than card fruad now days.

Yes hear what you're saying I was just querying your initial remark about most people prefer to pay by cash rather than card nowadays.

Would be interested what the split actually is.

[Yani P]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yes hear what you're saying I was just querying your initial remark about most people prefer to pay by cash rather than card nowadays.

Would be interested what the split actually is.

99-1

[B4ev6is]

6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yes hear what you're saying I was just querying your initial remark about most people prefer to pay by cash rather than card nowadays.

Would be interested what the split actually is.

Also people prefer pay by cash with small amounts and also notice concourse less people seem not want buy stuff in pp since it went cashless.

[rynny]

9 minutes ago, winktheram said:

Interestingly, Maguire's latest podcast seems to suggest we could have reasonably forseen Covid, as SARS, Ebola and the like have been around so it was I inevitable that a global pandemic would hit and we should have been prepared. And Covid is not a force majure event. The man's a menace. 

 

[winktheram]

3 minutes ago, rynny said:

And quoting insurance companies not paying out on covid as a force majure event. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

15 minutes ago, winktheram said:

Interestingly, Maguire's latest podcast seems to suggest we could have reasonably forseen Covid, as SARS, Ebola and the like have been around so it was I inevitable that a global pandemic would hit and we should have been prepared. And Covid is not a force majure event. The man's a menace. 

 

Well the government didn't seem too prepared so how can a football club be expected to plan for a global pandemic.

If anything the EFL should factor in extra allowable losses in the event of a global pandemic.

The last 18 months showed the EFL hadn't the foggiest what to do, so they clearly hadn't planned for it either.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

17 minutes ago, winktheram said:

Interestingly, Maguire's latest podcast seems to suggest we could have reasonably forseen Covid, as SARS, Ebola and the like have been around so it was I inevitable that a global pandemic would hit and we should have been prepared. And Covid is not a force majure event. The man's a menace. 

 

He should have told the Chinese, the WHO and the rest of the world first before telling Derby County. He likes the sound of his own voice.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Just now, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

He should have told the Chinese, the WHO and the rest of the world first before telling Derby County. He likes the sound of his own voice.

Ain't that the truth.

Making a living off the back of our predicament, some of which he was very keen to see us charged for.

He shouldn't be given the air time by our fans, radio stations and podcasts and we certainly shouldn't buy any books, in my opinion.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

4 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Ain't that the truth.

Making a living off the back of our predicament, some of which he was very keen to see us charged for.

He shouldn't be given the air time by our fans, radio stations and podcasts and we certainly shouldn't buy any books, in my opinion.

As far as I am aware only the war and Covid stopped football matches being played. During the war the pubs stayed open but Covid shut them down. I mean, come on when people say unprecedented, it is exactly that. This being said, i still think we'll get nowhere and will have spunked 300k down the drain.

[Foreveram]

24 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

He should have told the Chinese, the WHO and the rest of the world first before telling Derby County. He likes the sound of his own voice.

Well we won’t get fooled again.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Foreveram

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

From the Wigan appeal (para 62)

"We reject the submission of Mr Taylor QC that there were other, also effective, causes,
including the significant increase in the Club’s players’ wages and on transfers. That
these made the Club increasingly dependent on the owner’s continuing support is clearly
true. But so long as that support continued, the ship would have stayed afloat. It was
only when the owner pulled the plug that it sank."

A bit worrying, this extract. How is our position different ? 

[RadioactiveWaste]

28 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

As far as I am aware only the war and Covid stopped football matches being played. During the war the pubs stayed open but Covid shut them down. I mean, come on when people say unprecedented, it is exactly that. This being said, i still think we'll get nowhere and will have spunked 300k down the drain.

This is what I think as well.

[Crewton]

14 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

A bit worrying, this extract. How is our position different ? 

Wigan went into Administration only 3 months into lockdown. Spot the difference.