Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, jono said:

Oddly, when everyone on both sides has finished strutting their stuff, that might be considered fair and reasonable. 
 

what really kills me is why on Earth can’t the EFL come clean. There can be absolutely nothing preventing them stating what penalty is incoming. The accounting investigations have been going on for years. 
 

What has the EFL actually said in the last 4 weeks except to apply the automatic deduction… absolutely nothing .. why ? And on what grounds ? There is supposed to be a set of rules which includes penalties and a means to appeal them. 
 

There really is only one conclusion .. they are waiting to see if we can beat the drop before revealing their hand. That is fundamentally dishonest and against the rules. 

We probably haven’t submitted accounts (P&S returns) yet for the points deduction to be calculated. Mel in his fond farewell suggested, perhaps £4m breach in 2018/19, but what about since? I don’t think the EFL can do anything until we (the Administrators) have filed accounts/returns that allow for the negotiations to begin. 9 points plus 3 suspended has only ever come from the media hasn’t it? Or have any of our Supporter Groups been given information by the Administrators that I have missed?

[Yani P]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do they though? I'm not saying that to be contentious btw. I can't remember the last time I HAD to pay cash for anything, in fact I could have gone out just with my contactless card and not needed cash at all for anything at all.

There probably is a split with the younger generation favouring contactless payments over cash compared to the older generation but for me cash went out with square wheels.

Its true - I mean I am older generation i guess but not used cash for anything in years..

[Tyler Durden]

Can't understand the basis of this appeal if we're saying that Covid was the reason we are in our current position.

If this was an accident investigation then Covid would be the immediate cause but the root cause would be financial mismanagement of the club.

[Crewton]

Please, no more analogies between our appeal and any other disaster scenario. Some people think the appeal has validity and others don't. It's happening, and further speculation is pointless until it's been concluded.

 

[PistoldPete]

22 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Can't understand the basis of this appeal if we're saying that Covid was the reason we are in our current position.

If this was an accident investigation then Covid would be the immediate cause but the root cause would be financial mismanagement of the club.

Did "financial mismanagement" cause covid? "Financial mismanagement" or making losses / failure to get promoted or whatever you want to call it were all contributory factors , not causes.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

Did "financial mismanagement" cause covid? "Financial mismanagement" or making losses / failure to get promoted or whatever you want to call it were all contributory factors , not causes.

Totally disagree with you. You don't look at the immediate cause when you're doing an investigation you look at the root cause and the root cause for us being in this mess isn't Covid. 

 

[Crewton]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Totally disagree with you. You don't look at the immediate cause when you're doing an investigation you look at the root cause and the root cause for us being in this mess isn't Covid. 

 

You also project what would have happened if the event hadn't occurred.

[jono]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

We probably haven’t submitted accounts (P&S returns) yet for the points deduction to be calculated. Mel in his fond farewell suggested, perhaps £4m breach in 2018/19, but what about since? I don’t think the EFL can do anything until we (the Administrators) have filed accounts/returns that allow for the negotiations to begin. 9 points plus 3 suspended has only ever come from the media hasn’t it? Or have any of our Supporter Groups been given information by the Administrators that I have missed?

Oh yes I see your point, but if they haven’t got the figures then why are they even discussing further deductions. What are the suspicions based on ? .. if they don’t know anything because they don’t have the accounts then they don’t know anything. So why this overbearing attitude and sense of a sword of damacles hanging over us. They had a case ongoing based on earlier accounts ? so why isn’t that out ? And the 18/19 figures .. is this  What they think might be in our accounts ? Eh ? Well Mrs Gibson at No 23 said it looked like he was driving very fast, so he must have been speeding ? 

 As of today (if the accounts submission is the issue ) then there isn’t a case to answer except an appeal over the 12 points.

 

[Tyler Durden]

The reason for my post was asking a legitimate question not being on the forum for a number of weeks - is our appeal based on the assertion that we are in our current predicament due to Covid? I don't know the ins and outs of our appeal but if the content of it hasn't been disclosed fully then that's not something which can be shared on here.

Ultimately whether the appeal is valid or not is immaterial to me, whatever the outcome is that is what the outcome is and if it's a reduction in the points deduction then all well and good.

I just don't want the handwringing on here and cries of the world is against us if the appeal isn't successful.

I hope that the EFL will look at the merits of our case impartially and make an informed judgement but if the appeal isn't successful then people accept that the judgement on that basis.

Anyhows we'll see I guess 

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

It will be the oldies staying away due to COVID so it will depend on age profile of the fan base.

I stopped going to away matches because of our idiots who liked to throw beer around on the concourse, then got in my face threatening violence in my direction when I remonstrated.

I stopped going to PPS because of the pandemic and the lockdown, and won't return for some time yet, I'm afraid. Approaching 70 and being on the 'extremely vulnerable' list, to return now would just be foolish.

 

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Yani P said:

Its true - I mean I am older generation i guess but not used cash for anything in years..

I've been to the cashpoint twice in 18 months. I like to have some cash around to pay the window cleaner every fortnight. Everything else for us now is via cashless transactions.

[Foreveram]

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The reason for my post was asking a legitimate question not being on the forum for a number of weeks - is our appeal based on the assertion that we are in our current predicament due to Covid? I don't know the ins and outs of our appeal but if the content of it hasn't been disclosed fully then that's not something which can be shared on here.

Ultimately whether the appeal is valid or not is immaterial to me, whatever the outcome is that is what the outcome is and if it's a reduction in the points deduction then all well and good.

I just don't want the handwringing on here and cries of the world is against us if the appeal isn't successful.

I hope that the EFL will look at the merits of our case impartially and make an informed judgement but if the appeal isn't successful then people accept that the judgement on that basis.

Anyhows we'll see I guess 

Impartial ,able to judge or consider something fairly without allowing your own interest to influence you. Good luck with that.

[Mostyn6]

50 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Totally disagree with you. You don't look at the immediate cause when you're doing an investigation you look at the root cause and the root cause for us being in this mess isn't Covid. 

 

The simple question is, “had the stadium been open to spectators and the turnover matched the average of the last few years, would Derby be in administration right now?”. 
 

if you think the answer is Yes, then the appeal is not valid, also youre a bit thick ?

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

The simple question is, “had the stadium been open to spectators and the turnover matched the average of the last few years, would Derby be in administration right now?”. 
 

if you think the answer is Yes, then the appeal is not valid, also youre a bit thick ?

That was the immediate cause though as I said earlier. Not the root cause.

You must be right I must be a bit thick then.

[Van der MoodHoover]

8 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Well I think it was a very silly idea of Mel to put that roof on the stadium. I for one am not attending until there is some fresh air allowed in and out of the stadium. It must be like a COVID Petri dish in that stand where they do all that singing and jumping.

We are talking Derby here aren't we? 

[Woodley Ram]

58 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Totally disagree with you. You don't look at the immediate cause when you're doing an investigation you look at the root cause and the root cause for us being in this mess isn't Covid. 

 

I understand where you are coming from but the issue here is did COVID cause us to go bust? 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, Woodley Ram said:

I understand where you are coming from but the issue here is did COVID cause us to go bust? 

I hear where you're coming from but you attribute actions against the root cause of an incident not the immediate cause or the same thing will happen over and over again in the future as you've never got to the nub of the true reasons behind the issue happening.

[Tamworthram]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He's referring to our visits to Wembley

That’s what I assumed but it’s hardly a fair comparison. I’m sure if we reached a Wembley final now tickets would sell out just as quickly.

Same with pretty much every club, the casual fans suddenly appear when Wembley is involved.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Tamworthram

[Yani P]

Will there be any issue with a concern that this might lead to the floodgates opening?

[Crewton]

24 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I hear where you're coming from but you attribute actions against the root cause of an incident not the immediate cause or the same thing will happen over and over again in the future as you've never got to the nub of the true reasons behind the issue happening.

No, the point is that if a once-in-a-hundred-years pandemic hadn't been allowed to take hold of the country by (arguably) government complacency and negligence, would DCFC have been in the position whereby it was no longer able to meet its obligations to creditors?

What you appear to be arguing is that the club should have been in a position to ride out any comparable storm, but since EFL rules don't require clubs to prove they can do that regardless of the force majeur event, I don't believe the appeal can simply be struck out on the basis that its finances should have been more robust, provided the club can demonstrate that its income was materially reduced as a result.