Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[PistoldPete]

4 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Just because they teach on the same course at Liverpool uni doesn't mean you can claim they're best buds or share the same opinions. You've no idea if they even see each other (if they're visiting academics they'll likely just pop in and then out) or if they share the same views, it's just wild conjecture from someone thinking they're Inspector Morse or something. 

Maguire contacted EFL in 2018 about our amortisation policy. (which they knew about anyway as it was disclosed in 2016) They told him to contact our auditors if he had any concerns,which i think would have been the proper thing to suggest if he was genuinely concerned at a professional level.

Nothing happened until January 2020, when suddenly out of nowhere the amortisation charge against Derby appears. By that time Parry had taken over at the EFL and he is the only reason why the charges were raised..  EFL Financial drector thought everything was fine. .

[i-Ram]

33 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

So, according to you :

1. KM points out a demonstrable fact

2. the EFL tries to exploit it

3. the EFL then tries to rig the process

 

and yet you still blame him?

As for the rest of it, in my view separating off your main asset as a device to get round rules governing spending is not sensible, acceptable or anything other than an existential threat to the long term health of the club. And Mel Morris should be ashamed of himself for doing it. As an outsider, I find the fact that there isn't more anger about that very odd. I obviously need to stick around to improve my understanding. ?

I think you should be aware that, I would hazard a guess, that 98% of regular posters on here are opposed to what Morris has done, in particular putting us in to admin., taking us to the steps of league 1, and walking away with the stadium. We are yet to see whether he gives the latter back, or sells it at a deflated value.  There are still one or two Mel fanboys on here though who will blame the EFL for all this whatever the ultimate outcome.

[Leeds Ram]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Maguire contacted EFL in 2018 about our amortisation policy. (which they knew about anyway as it was disclosed in 2016) They told him to contact our auditors if he had any concerns,which i think would have been the proper thing to suggest if he was genuinely concerned at a professional level.

Nothing happened until January 2020, when suddenly out of nowhere the amortisation charge against Derby appears. By that time Parry had taken over at the EFL and he is the only reason why the charges were raised..  EFL Financial drector thought everything was fine. .

Again this is just all conjecture. Tbh, I love the fact that you think all our problems stem from a weird love in between Maguire and Parry (all predicated on the fact they're guest lecturers at liverpool uni)  rather than our own massive spending requiring all kinds of financial covering such as selling the stadium to ourselves or our unique amortisation policy. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, basilrobbie said:

The other way of looking at it is that he is relatively objective and professionally well placed to form judgements. How many fans can say the same?

I don't really understand the vitriol, given that through his Podcast he does rather more to inform you an your own club management has historically done. He's also better placed to perceive how your club are regarded than you are (understandably, it's not a criticism per se). Do you not think that there is a strong element of you not wanting to hear the message?

The guy is a charlatan.

He is no better placed to analyse a football clubs finances than anyone else who knows how to read a set of accounts.

Football finance expert is the most laughable title I have ever heard.

Fair play to him though, he is obviously making a decent living out of a role that he appears to have invented himself. 

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I get the annoyance, last time we were at wembley I saw plenty of people getting tickets that hadn't bothered with Derby in years and It did make me frustrated as i knew of genuine fans who missed out on the chance to go. But, I guess ultimately it's true of every club that when big events happen the fickle fans come out in their droves. 

Of course, I'm not saying we are any different to any other club.e

But if we go bust, the opportunity for another day out at Wembley with their half and half scarves is gone forever!

[Woodley Ram]

13 hours ago, winktheram said:

Interestingly, Maguire's latest podcast seems to suggest we could have reasonably forseen Covid, as SARS, Ebola and the like have been around so it was I inevitable that a global pandemic would hit and we should have been prepared. And Covid is not a force majure event. The man's a menace. 

 

Yes I heard that. He says that with the other infections we should have known another was around the corner. That is a stupid thing to say He takes a lot of things from ‘lawyers’ and other ‘experts’ he has spoken to and also mention insurance companies not paying out.

There are a few issues with his assumptions ( as that’s why they are). We are not claiming under an insurance policy so that isn’t really relevant, his lawyers etc do not have all the facts, in fact no more than us.

He shows a real lack of understanding and a real dislike for Derby.

[Mucker1884]

17 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

 

If this was an accident investigation then Covid would be the immediate cause...

If this was a homicide investigation, we'd all be typing in an American accent, and my real name would be Clint... or Elijah... or Henry... or Theodore... or Bill or George or Frank... Any damn thing but Sue! I still hate that name!

 

 

...erm... but it isn't!

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, basilrobbie said:

Fair point. I actually think the EFL are as much to blame for this as anyone ; it seems to have been going on for ever and that is largely their fault because of the way they dither and because of their (very) shaky grasp of their own rules. But your club's reputation suffers at the same time because you also get "blamed".

I just think Maguire is the wrong target. He's far more objective than most.

 

Maguires the Pied Piper, He plays a tune that the not so bright follow, It's easy done, Make out that one of your members are "cheating" and a lot will follow, As they see their club being at a disadvantage.

We've been batling the football authorities for over 100 years for one thing or another, Non payment of taxes, Being paid in brown envelopes, Illegal signing on fees...someone somewhere wants that notch on their gun, We on this board know who that tool is.

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Your analysis is wrong logically and in law. If the answer to 1) is No then how could the EFL claim we were a basket case going into the pandemic? We may have been weak but we would have survived financially if the pandemic hadn't happened and that is the proper legal test.

It is not wrong logically at all.

Our appeal is based on COVID being the sole reason for going in to administration. If it can be argued that our poor business practices and poor financial state meant we were less resilient to external factors, then that means COVID was not the sole reason for us going in to administration.

COVID was one of the factors, probably even the biggest factor, but was it the only one? Of course not.

I hope we get the deduction reduced or overturned, but I rate the chances of it happening as much as I rate my chances of winning the lottery.

[PistoldPete]

12 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Again this is just all conjecture. Tbh, I love the fact that you think all our problems stem from a weird love in between Maguire and Parry (all predicated on the fact they're guest lecturers at liverpool uni)  rather than our own massive spending requiring all kinds of financial covering such as selling the stadium to ourselves or our unique amortisation policy. 

It isn't conjecture. It is a fact. The two have had shared vested interest in people signing up for their courses at the same  business school .  Maguire is not independent of EFL, he peddles their agenda all the time.

 

By no means are EFL the sole cause of our problems. And by no means has Mel Morris not made multiple errors.

But our ultimate fate our very existence as a club rests with the EFL (and to some extent the forbearance of mel Morris as a creditor). EFL  have within their power to banish us from the League.

If they succeed they will claim a weird distorred moral argument that they have to punish us (all of us every Rams fan, and sorry for questioning if you were Leeds but it wasn't clear)  for the allegedly self inflicted actions. to maintain their "integrity" of the League (no really).

And no I do no trust EFL  one bit, and unless he proves me wrong, i still trust Morris to save us now if he can.   So no I'm not keen to slag him off right now.

 

[Ram-Alf]

27 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Again this is just all conjecture. Tbh, I love the fact that you think all our problems stem from a weird love in between Maguire and Parry (all predicated on the fact they're guest lecturers at liverpool uni)  rather than our own massive spending requiring all kinds of financial covering such as selling the stadium to ourselves or our unique amortisation policy. 

There may well be or they may well not be, Untill they are caught in bed together by a Sun Journo we can all have our thoughts ?

[duncanjwitham]

30 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Again this is just all conjecture. Tbh, I love the fact that you think all our problems stem from a weird love in between Maguire and Parry (all predicated on the fact they're guest lecturers at liverpool uni)  rather than our own massive spending requiring all kinds of financial covering such as selling the stadium to ourselves or our unique amortisation policy. 

It's perfectly possible to simultaneously believe (as I do) that Mel Morris has run the club in a catastrophically awful way, that the EFL have handled their various interactions with us in a pathetically useless way, and that Maguire is an attention-seeking muppet that doesn't seem to know half as much as he thinks he does.

[hintonsboots]

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

And no I do no trust EFL  one bit, and unless he proves me wrong, i still trust Morris to save us now if he can.   So no I'm not keen to slag him off right now

Exactly. Until it’s all done and dusted I will not be completing my appraisal on Mel’s tenure. Apparently 98% of this Forum are Mel haters rather than Mel fan boys. I haven’t seen a poll ? 

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

It is not wrong logically at all.

Our appeal is based on COVID being the sole reason for going in to administration. If it can be argued that our poor business practices and poor financial state meant we were less resilient to external factors, then that means COVID was not the sole reason for us going in to administration.

COVID was one of the factors, probably even the biggest factor, but was it the only one? Of course not.

I hope we get the deduction reduced or overturned, but I rate the chances of it happening as much as I rate my chances of winning the lottery.

Sorry Juan my understanding of "basket case" has origins referring to   someone with dementia at end of life  reduced to weaving baskets in a care home. not a state anyone ever recovers from . So logically if EFL says we were a basket case going into pandemic they were saying we were already beyond hope.They may say that but you contradict them by saying admin wouldnt have happened if not for COVID.

Adminsitrators will say I think COVID was the only proximate cause. Everything else was a contributory factor, not the cause. I think they have a good case.   

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's perfectly possible to simultaneously believe (as I do) that Mel Morris has run the club in a catastrophically awful way, that the EFL have handled their various interactions with us in a pathetically useless way, and that Maguire is an attention-seeking muppet that doesn't seem to know half as much as he thinks he does.

Yes.  all true. But Mel is a Ram and the others are not.

[alexxxxx]

3 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

It is not wrong logically at all.

Our appeal is based on COVID being the sole reason for going in to administration. If it can be argued that our poor business practices and poor financial state meant we were less resilient to external factors, then that means COVID was not the sole reason for us going in to administration.

COVID was one of the factors, probably even the biggest factor, but was it the only one? Of course not.

I hope we get the deduction reduced or overturned, but I rate the chances of it happening as much as I rate my chances of winning the lottery.

Surely it's about at the time the club goes in to admin rather than what would have happened without covid. 

The reason we're in administration is because we can't service the debt (as Mel can't/won't do it). Maybe It could be proven that covid was the sole reason we went under because revenues due to covid were too low to be matched with mels cash to service the debt and operate the club. 

Its only on Derby to prove, not the efl to disprove, so it's not beyond the possibility that Derby could prove it. 

I also don't think the overall resilience of the club is that relevant to proving whether covid was the only reason it went under. It either went under due to covid or it didn't?

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Exactly. Until it’s all done and dusted I will not be completing my appraisal on Mel’s tenure. Apparently 98% of this Forum are Mel haters rather than Mel fan boys. I haven’t seen a poll ? 

[Leeds Ram]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

It isn't conjecture. It is a fact. The two have had shared vested interest in people signing up for their courses at the same  business school .  Maguire is not independent of EFL, he peddles their agenda all the time.

 

By no means are EFL the sole cause of our problems. And by no means has Mel Morris not made multiple errors.

But our ultimate fate our very existence as a club rests with the EFL (and to some extent the forbearance of mel Morris as a creditor). EFL  have within their power to banish us from the League.

If they succeed they will claim a weird distorred moral argument that they have to punish us (all of us every Rams fan, and sorry for questioning if you were Leeds but it wasn't clear)  for the allegedly self inflicted actions. to maintain their "integrity" of the League (no really).

And no I do no trust EFL  one bit, and unless he proves me wrong, i still trust Morris to save us now if he can.   So no I'm not keen to slag him off right now.

 

So you think that the two have cooked this up to get admissions to the business school?  Given that who cares about admissions is the university you should see if the uni of liverpool also have something to do with our demise. 

Yes the EFL have that power and they've always had that power. I don't think the EFL has anything against Derby county as a club at all. It's not about 'slagging mel off' it's about the fact that ultimately he's responsible for this, he's mismanaged the club and walked away and throughout this process he's failed to take responsibility. I think pretending that there's this elaborate conspiracy by the EFL, Parry, and Maguire to kill Derby county all  in the setting of a Uni of Liverpool business course is a view that is beyond the realm of sanity. 

[Leeds Ram]

16 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's perfectly possible to simultaneously believe (as I do) that Mel Morris has run the club in a catastrophically awful way, that the EFL have handled their various interactions with us in a pathetically useless way, and that Maguire is an attention-seeking muppet that doesn't seem to know half as much as he thinks he does.

It is perfectly possible to believe those things but that's not  what I was addressing. 

[Yani P]

4 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

So you think that the two have cooked this up to get admissions to the business school?  Given that who cares about admissions is the university you should see if the uni of liverpool also have something to do with our demise. 

Yes the EFL have that power and they've always had that power. I don't think the EFL has anything against Derby county as a club at all. It's not about 'slagging mel off' it's about the fact that ultimately he's responsible for this, he's mismanaged the club and walked away and throughout this process he's failed to take responsibility. I think pretending that there's this elaborate conspiracy by the EFL, Parry, and Maguire to kill Derby county all  in the setting of a Uni of Liverpool business course is a view that is beyond the realm of sanity. 

Just one more question..