Mel Morris fan club

[PistoldPete]

37 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Can I ask a question not meant to be loaded, I know that we can't know exactly the finances of other Championship clubs and there may be others extremely close to administration that we don't know about but the facts are that all those other clubs were also affected by Covid just like us but we are the only club who entered administration which is then being used as a defence.....so the question is why only us?

I think this quetsion has been asked a few times. Morris answered it on radio Derby. First off,  no other club in the EFL has lost such an amount of revenue , amounting to two thirds of our revenue.  That's due to the size of our fanbase and also the fact that we do not get parachute money which income was largely unaffected by COVID/ lockdown.

 

Other clubs got loans arranged by EFL (which Derby were deemed inelgible for). 

 

And of course some other clubs like Stoke have much wealthier owners. We are not the first club in administration nor the first to use COVID as a defence (Wigan did both).  Their defence (which lost) was less worthy in my view.  

There is no doubt that Derby's historic over spending was a factor of course if Mel had been saving more for a rainy day this may never have happened. But as i've said many times, that is a contributory factor not a cause.

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by PistoldPete

[Tyler Durden]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think this quetsion has been asked a few times. Morris answered it on radio Derby. First off,  no other club in the EFL has lost such an amount of revenue , amounting to two thirds of our revenue.  That's due to the size of our fanbase and also the fact that we do not get parachute money which income was largely unaffected by COVID/ lockdown.

 

Other clubs got loans arranged by EFL (which Derby were deemed inelgible for). 

 

And of course some other clubs like Stoke have much wealthier owners. We are not the first club in administration nor the first to use COVID as a defence (Wigan did both).  Their defence (which lost) was less worthy in my view.  

There is no doubt that Derby's historic over spending was a factor of course if Mel had been saving more for a rainy day this may never have happened. But as i've said many times, that is a contributory factor not a cause.

 

 

 

Surely though if you take Forest for example their attendances must be of the same magnitude compared to ours over the last couple of seasons and they also haven't had parachute payments? They aren't in administration though.

[Reggie Greenwood]

19 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Surely though if you take Forest for example their attendances must be of the same magnitude compared to ours over the last couple of seasons and they also haven't had parachute payments? They aren't in administration though.

Yet 

[PistoldPete]

44 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Surely though if you take Forest for example their attendances must be of the same magnitude compared to ours over the last couple of seasons and they also haven't had parachute payments? They aren't in administration though.

Did they get the £8 million COVID loan? Is their owner richer than ours? I think it's not just attendances I think our coroprate hospitality and events etc was a big loss. I mean there are many factors. But covid tipped us over the edge and i don't think we would have gone under without it. 

[Leeds Ram]

On 21/10/2021 at 09:21, PistoldPete said:

Mel was looking to sell , and was reducing his spending because he knew his money would run out. 
 

the pandemic made it impossible to sell , and made his money run out.

If mel was looking to sell because his cash was running out then you can't claim from 2015-2016 we were on the path to sustainability and profitability....  You can't have your cake and eat it.

Mel hasn't just gambled his money he's gambled this club's future existence which is utterly inexcusable. He's not only completely mismanaged the club to a degree rarely seen in english football but he's walked away after claiming he can no longer fit the bill and publically declared none of it is his fault, instead it's entirely to do with covid... It's so mind-bogglingly arrogant and stupid of him to make such claims I can't believe anyone has fallen for it. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Leeds Ram

[Oldben]

7 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Think you misunderstood my question so apologies for not making it clear, my question was that if Covid was the direct cause of us going into administration and Covid has presumably affected all other Championship clubs then why are we the only club to have had to do this. 

covid isnt the only cause, but with one of the largest gates in the championship, in my opinion most people with a legal understanding of the circumstances would say that it played a big part in derbys financial woes.

 

[PistoldPete]

6 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

If mel was looking to sell because his cash was running out then you can't claim from 2015-2016 we were on the path to sustainability and profitability....  You can't have your cake and eat it.

Mel hasn't just gambled his money he's gambled this club's future existence which is utterly inexcusable. He's not only completely mismanaged the club to a degree rarely seen in english football but he's walked away after claiming he can no longer fit the bill and publically declared none of it is his fault, instead it's entirely to do with covid... It's so mind-bogglingly arrogant and stupid of him to make such claims I can't believe anyone has fallen for it. 

We were a long way from profitability or sutanainability in 2015-16. Just saying we have made net transfer profits since then. Wages were still a problem for years after that,and debts were piling up , so we owed loads of money.. to Mel Morris. But his "soft loans" are not the problem. It's the debt to MSD and to HMRC that are the problems and they have accrued since lockdown. 

 

[RAM1966]

4 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

We were a long way from profitability or sutanainability in 2015-16. Just saying we have made net transfer profits since then. Wages were still a problem for years after that,and debts were piling up , so we owed loads of money.. to Mel Morris. But his "soft loans" are not the problem. It's the debt to MSD and to HMRC that are the problems and they have accrued since lockdown. 

 

 

You say Mel gambled, yes he did recklessly and to point of risking our future and very existence.

One mans vanity project complete gone wrong!!!!!

Ask yourself the question, if we did go under, would you still be blaming covid and not the man himself?   

Edited October 22, 2021 by RAM1966

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

14 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

So what should he have done then when the pandemic struck? He had budgeted for £30 million revenue to pay players wages and then found he couldn't. as you say , HMRC were not asking for the money every month like the players were so he didn't pay that bill. So what should he have done? Filed for admin earlier maybe, that's a possible argument ? Borrowed money from wonga?   What are you saying he should have done then that he didn't do?   

HMRC do expect that money every month though. PAYE tax and N.I is due as salary is paid.  He had no need for admin.  He could have paid the money owed to HMRC in instalments as long as all accounts related to the club were up to date, or, just paid it in full.  They would prefer 100% of what's owed so would take it over 24 months.  The clubs sponsors were still paying what was required of them and that accounts for a huge percentage of club revenue, so there was never a 30 million black hole.   I would imagine a bloke with over 500 million in fixed and liquid assets has little need for payday loan sharks.   

[kevinhectoring]

On 21/10/2021 at 17:20, PistoldPete said:

Why they didn’t choose a practising auditor I don’t know ,

I think because if a practising auditor comes across a difficult technical issue,  he or she consults their technical committee   

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

HMRC do expect that money every month though. PAYE tax and N.I is due as salary is paid.  He had no need for admin.  He could have paid the money owed to HMRC in instalments as long as all accounts related to the club were up to date, or, just paid it in full.  They would prefer 100% of what's owed so would take it over 24 months.  The clubs sponsors were still paying what was required of them and that accounts for a huge percentage of club revenue, so there was never a 30 million black hole.   I would imagine a bloke with over 500 million in fixed and liquid assets has little need for payday loan sharks.   

Ok thanks for the answer . In short you say he can afford to pay from his own pocket and so he should. If you are right on that I would agree with you.

but others have said he has borrowed heavily and gambled with our future. If he has so much money why would he need to borrow?

the truth is right now we do not know. Which is why I am reserving judgement . I think the truth will be out there very soon. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by PistoldPete

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, RAM1966 said:

 

You say Mel gambled, yes he did recklessly and to point of risking our future and very existence.

One mans vanity project complete gone wrong!!!!!

Ask yourself the question, if we did go under, would you still be blaming covid and not the man himself?   

Let us see how things play out. If we go under we should in my view even if the Corporate entity is liquidated we should Still be entitled to trade as a club. If we are also banished from the League then I would blame EFL for that. Because Whether our problems are due to Mel or to COVID or both there is no reason for the fans to suffer the extinction of their club through no fault of their own. On that I hope we can agree.

[Grumpy Git]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Ok thanks for the answer . In short you say he can afford to pay from his own pocket and so he should. If you are right on that I would agree with you.

but others have said he has borrowed heavily and gambled with our future. If he has so much money why would he need to borrow?

the truth is right now we do not know. Which is why I am reserving judgement . I think the truth will be out there very soon. 

I think you'll find a lot of wealthy businessmen are good at gambling with other people's money.

In our case, MM loaned the club money from his own and other sources, so at that point it's DCFC who take on the risk, ...... and here we are!

DCFC are broke, but MM owns a stadium and shiny training ground.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Grumpy Git

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

I think you'll find a lot of wealthy businessmen are good at gambling with other people's money.

In our case, MM loaned the club money from his own and other sources, so at that point it's DCFC who take on the risk, ...... and here we are!

DCFC are broke, but MM owns a stadium and shiny training ground.

Well as I've said elsewhere let's see how that plays out with negotiations to sell the club. . if Morris owns the stadium and doesn't throw that in with a deal that could rescue the club then that is a very different matter. But he does also have loans with MSD against the stadium, so I m not sure how much money he really has. We will see.   

[G STAR RAM]

On 21/10/2021 at 19:22, RAM1966 said:

He wasn't gambling with his own money though, he's run up a poo load of debt.  He's gambled with the HMRCs money, he's gambled with the money owed to HMRC (income tax and employees & employers NI contributions) which may result in ex-employees state pensions being reduced.  He has gambled with dozens of peoples jobs and long standing servants of the club like Faye Nixon have lost their jobs.  I wonder how many can no longer pay their mortgages, maybe you should stand there face to face with these people and defend Mel and see what reaction you get!  

About time you took your Mel Morris appreciation society specs off.........!!!!!!! 

Sorry, what?!?!?

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

I think you'll find a lot of wealthy businessmen are good at gambling with other people's money.

In our case, MM loaned the club money from his own and other sources, so at that point it's DCFC who take on the risk, ...... and here we are!

DCFC are broke, but MM owns a stadium and shiny training ground.

No he doesnt own the training ground and never has. 

[G STAR RAM]

On 21/10/2021 at 21:34, Rev said:

This may be the least informed club related post I've seen in the 7 years or so I've been on this forum.

That you then go and chastise others for peddling propaganda on this forum is unbelievable for its sheer chutzpah!

Interested to know what you think @PistoldPetehas said that is factually incorrect?

I've read the post and it seems pretty correct to me.

[G STAR RAM]

On 22/10/2021 at 08:22, Tyler Durden said:

Can I ask a question not meant to be loaded, I know that we can't know exactly the finances of other Championship clubs and there may be others extremely close to administration that we don't know about but the facts are that all those other clubs were also affected by Covid just like us but we are the only club who entered administration which is then being used as a defence.....so the question is why only us?

1 - Our situation was more precarious than others and more susceptible to a downturn

2 - Our income took a bigger hit than other clubs

3 - We were not given a bail out loan by the EFL

[The Key Club King]

Though I hope that our legal case will be successful in our claim that Covid has driven us toward administration, the losses through Covid are smaller than the reduction in the wage bill during the same period. We could claim we were going to reduce the wage bill anyway but I would guess that we have probably lost less money in the past 18 months than we did in the previous 18 months to that. 

I would also point out that I had absolutely no problem with the overspending by Mel (however wasteful) when I'd assumed that he was personally paying for it. Putting in on the clubs tab was never mentioned.

[Pearl Ram]

1 hour ago, The Key Club King said:

 

I would also point out that I had absolutely no problem with the overspending by Mel (however wasteful) when I'd assumed that he was personally paying for it. Putting in on the clubs tab was never mentioned.

Neither did I, I thought it was marvellous. But then I also thought he was an astute and responsible businessman and owner who would do nothing to jeopardise the very existence of the club. 

Morris really did hoodwink me, I never liked Rush, or Rowett, come to that, and posted to that effect from very early in their tenures with us so, there I was, congratulating myself on being able to spot a wrong ‘un a mile off and Morris actually reminds me, in fact, I’m not all that after all.