Mel Morris fan club

[Tyler Durden]

On 19/10/2021 at 18:39, PistoldPete said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, it was another roll of the dice. Lampard's permanent signings were poo. Maybe Morris should have told Lampard to stick with the loan signings and get someone else to do recruitment. Easy to say now.  

But it really is no good blaming Morris for everything. We have been incredibly unlucky year after year. Losing four play off ties by a single goal each time. What if QPR hadn't cheated in 2014, injuries wrecked our run in 2015, Thorne breaking his leg just before play offs in 2016, Vydra not fit for the play offs in 2018 , no fully fit strikers for the 2019 play off final except for Mason Bennett.    

If the dice had rolled fairly for us then nobody would have been blaming Morris for anything.

 

 

 

Is that called gambling though? In the same way that Ridsdale got Leeds into their financial mess by gambling every year that their huge outlays on players transfers and wages would be covered by them qualifying for the Champions League and the season they didn't precipitated their financial ruin?

 

[PistoldPete]

41 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Is that called gambling though? In the same way that Ridsdale got Leeds into their financial mess by gambling every year that their huge outlays on players transfers and wages would be covered by them qualifying for the Champions League and the season they didn't precipitated their financial ruin?

 

Morris was gambling with his own money though, he wasn't a rogue like Ridsdale. He was spending money because he had spare cash.   I just do not see it at all likely that someone would just have carried on spending until one day he woke up and found he had somehow run out of money.

He would have seen it coming and reduced spending accordingly, and that is what he was doing.

So the problem in the end was not the spending, it was the sudden loss of revenue. 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldtimeram]

Morris was gambling with borrowed money

[RAM1966]

10 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

No that isn’t true. Wage bill is less than half what it was , we have been making net transfer profits since 2015/16 so the trend was towards profitability and sustainability and has been for some years.

This is laughable, so what of we made a transfer profit, its about the figure at the bottom RH Corner of the balance sheet that matter.  How much did we still lose that financial year.  All because of the ridiculous wage bill Morris allowed to be built up during his tenure!!!!  

[RAM1966]

24 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Morris was gambling with his own money though, he wasn't a rogue like Ridsdale. He was spending money because he had spare cash.   I just do not see it at all likely that someone would just have carried on spending until one day he woke up and found he had somehow run out of money.

He would have seen it coming and reduced spending accordingly, and that is what he was doing.

So the problem in the end was not the spending, it was the sudden loss of revenue. 

 

 

 

 

 

He wasn't gambling with his own money though, he's run up a poo load of debt.  He's gambled with the HMRCs money, he's gambled with the money owed to HMRC (income tax and employees & employers NI contributions) which may result in ex-employees state pensions being reduced.  He has gambled with dozens of peoples jobs and long standing servants of the club like Faye Nixon have lost their jobs.  I wonder how many can no longer pay their mortgages, maybe you should stand there face to face with these people and defend Mel and see what reaction you get!  

About time you took your Mel Morris appreciation society specs off.........!!!!!!! 

[Rev]

Until we see the overdue accounts, we've no way of knowing what's gone on with regard to funding.

 

[PistoldPete]

39 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

He wasn't gambling with his own money though, he's run up a poo load of debt.  He's gambled with the HMRCs money, he's gambled with the money owed to HMRC (income tax and employees & employers NI contributions) which may result in ex-employees state pensions being reduced.  He has gambled with dozens of peoples jobs and long standing servants of the club like Faye Nixon have lost their jobs.  I wonder how many can no longer pay their mortgages, maybe you should stand there face to face with these people and defend Mel and see what reaction you get!  

About time you took your Mel Morris appreciation society specs off.........!!!!!!! 

Sorry that is just absolute rubbish. Since when did HMRC lend Mel Morris money to spend on trying to get us promoted in 2015 or 2018? I think it was the other way around HMRC benefited hugely from the overspend in those years.

 

That was three years ago or more.

 

Mel Morris gambled his own money in those years. He gambled and lost.  He failed. Some of that was his fault. 

 

But that was years ago.

 

HMRC debt has built up due to covid.

 

We had to pay player wages (which have built up during the pandemic  but we had no revenue to pay either the wages or the tax that went with it).

 

If you choose to swallow the self rightoeus bilge peddled by EFL and their cronies that is up to you go ahead, but please do not go on a Rams forum with such propaganda.

And Perhaps you could stand there and face the people whose loved ones  have been ended or ruined by covid and tell them that was Mel Morris's fault too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, oldtimeram said:

Morris was gambling with borrowed money

When? When did he borrow money? To buy PPS? What... he didn't have £81 million just lying in cash? Whyever not? 

 

 

[Pearl Ram]

You’re firing blanks mate, actually, I’m embarrassed for you. 

[RAM1966]

13 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Sorry that is just absolute rubbish. Since when did HMRC lend Mel Morris money to spend on trying to get us promoted in 2015 or 2018? I think it was the other way around HMRC benefited hugely from the overspend in those years.

 

That was three years ago or more.

 

Mel Morris gambled his own money in those years. He gambled and lost.  He failed. Some of that was his fault. 

 

But that was years ago.

 

HMRC debt has built up due to covid.

 

We had to pay player wages (which have built up during the pandemic  but we had no revenue to pay either the wages or the tax that went with it).

 

If you choose to swallow the self rightoeus bilge peddled by EFL and their cronies that is up to you go ahead, but please do not go on a Rams forum with such propaganda.

And Perhaps you could stand there and face the people whose loved ones  have been ended or ruined by covid and tell them that was Mel Morris's fault too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crass and vile comments about people who've lost loved ones to Covid, there are some places you should not go to win an argument and you've gone there!!!!!!!  

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

38 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

When? When did he borrow money? To buy PPS? What... he didn't have £81 million just lying in cash? Whyever not? 

 

 

I think he just put that money from right to left pocket, then borrowed money against it.  The Saunders to Derby from Oxford type of stadium sale - exactly diddly.  By not paying HMRC he effectively found a way to reduce players wages by 40 per cent as the tax and NI is an automatic deduction. He deferred payers wages using HMRC to do it . When it came time to pay the piper he went walkies. 

[Rev]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Sorry that is just absolute rubbish. Since when did HMRC lend Mel Morris money to spend on trying to get us promoted in 2015 or 2018? I think it was the other way around HMRC benefited hugely from the overspend in those years.

 

That was three years ago or more.

 

Mel Morris gambled his own money in those years. He gambled and lost.  He failed. Some of that was his fault. 

 

But that was years ago.

 

HMRC debt has built up due to covid.

 

We had to pay player wages (which have built up during the pandemic  but we had no revenue to pay either the wages or the tax that went with it).

 

If you choose to swallow the self rightoeus bilge peddled by EFL and their cronies that is up to you go ahead, but please do not go on a Rams forum with such propaganda.

And Perhaps you could stand there and face the people whose loved ones  have been ended or ruined by covid and tell them that was Mel Morris's fault too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This may be the least informed club related post I've seen in the 7 years or so I've been on this forum.

That you then go and chastise others for peddling propaganda on this forum is unbelievable for its sheer chutzpah!

 

[Rich84]

13 hours ago, Chris_D said:

ok fair enough, but the LAP considered in detail the evidence he gave at the DC, point stands someone didn't agree, the EFL maybe thought an academic would give their view more credence than someone who gets paid to do what a client wants...

 

13 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

The IDc thought the opposite , and they had an accountant on their panel. So you had Derby’s CEO an accountant, Derby’s auditors ,  Efl’s finance director, an Icaew audit team, an accountant on the IDc all seeing nothing wrong . Yet a panel of lawyers found a breach of an accounting standard . Not exactly convincing .

As @PistoldPetesays, everyone apart from Prof Pope seems ok with what was done which suggests @Chris_Dthat maybe he's the one getting paid to say what a client wants.......

Surely, the only ones that matter in any case with compliance are those at Companies House? If it wasn't conforming to the requirements they would have been all over it.

It is clear that we exploited the poorly written rules and once Maguire highlighted it for what ever reason/agenda he had the EFL are saying it isn't correct to their 'hidden' interpretation, just because no one else has tried it that we know of.

They should take it on the chin and amend the rules if that's what they want it to be like in future,  not penalise retrospectively 

[PistoldPete]

11 hours ago, RAM1966 said:

Crass and vile comments about people who've lost loved ones to Covid, there are some places you should not go to win an argument and you've gone there!!!!!!!  

No it is crass and vile comments to downplay covid as not a force majeure (as per Maguire). Of course it is a force majeure , it has wrecked peoples lives including mine . 

 

[Crewton]

I can understand the point made by the LAP - that the EFL needed everyone to use the same amortisation method in order to get a fair comparison - but the fact that they didn't spell that out in the FFP rules should have disqualified their argument. To then force Derby to revise their P&S calculations for all subsequent years to reflect a method that wasn't mandated at the time is, imo, a perversion of natural justice. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Crewton

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I think he just put that money from right to left pocket, then borrowed money against it.  The Saunders to Derby from Oxford type of stadium sale - exactly diddly.  By not paying HMRC he effectively found a way to reduce players wages by 40 per cent as the tax and NI is an automatic deduction. He deferred payers wages using HMRC to do it . When it came time to pay the piper he went walkies. 

So what should he have done then when the pandemic struck? He had budgeted for £30 million revenue to pay players wages and then found he couldn't. as you say , HMRC were not asking for the money every month like the players were so he didn't pay that bill. So what should he have done? Filed for admin earlier maybe, that's a possible argument ? Borrowed money from wonga?   What are you saying he should have done then that he didn't do?   

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So what should he have done then when the pandemic struck? He had budgeted for £30 million revenue to pay players wages and then found he couldn't. as you say , HMRC were not asking for the money every month like the players were so he didn't pay that bill. So what should he have done? Filed for admin earlier maybe, that's a possible argument ? Borrowed money from wonga?   What are you saying he should have done then that he didn't do?   

Can I ask a question not meant to be loaded, I know that we can't know exactly the finances of other Championship clubs and there may be others extremely close to administration that we don't know about but the facts are that all those other clubs were also affected by Covid just like us but we are the only club who entered administration which is then being used as a defence.....so the question is why only us?

[Oldben]

17 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Can I ask a question not meant to be loaded, I know that we can't know exactly the finances of other Championship clubs and there may be others extremely close to administration that we don't know about but the facts are that all those other clubs were also affected by Covid just like us but we are the only club who entered administration which is then being used as a defence.....so the question is why only us?

The efl want to punish those it can make an example of. Derby are easy prey at the moment.

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Can I ask a question not meant to be loaded, I know that we can't know exactly the finances of other Championship clubs and there may be others extremely close to administration that we don't know about but the facts are that all those other clubs were also affected by Covid just like us but we are the only club who entered administration which is then being used as a defence.....so the question is why only us?

Well I don’t know, but as our non-parachute payment income was fairly high but mainly relying on fans attendances, then our budget would have been commensurate to that? And then we didn’t qualify for the Prem loan.

Edited October 22, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, Oldben said:

The efl want to punish those it can make an example of. Derby are easy prey at the moment.

Think you misunderstood my question so apologies for not making it clear, my question was that if Covid was the direct cause of us going into administration and Covid has presumably affected all other Championship clubs then why are we the only club to have had to do this.