Mel Morris fan club

[Crewton]

I suspect that Mel was far too "hands off" during the first two years of his ownership when, financially, the die was cast. When you employ a CEO on over £500 kpa, who has shown his worth in the first 2 years of his tenure, it's understandable that you trust him to get on with the job. We may never know who sanctioned what, but when you hear about things like Mrs Ince's alleged scouting report, it's not surprising that there was a falling out when chickens were spied coming home to roost. Certainly, if it had been my money and my business, I'd have kept a close eye on the direction of travel in respect of future liabilities but we can only speculate how closely Mel was monitoring the budgets over those years. In his role as CEO however, I do also have to question wtf Rush was doing in that respect. 

[RoyMac5]

40 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I suspect that Mel was far too "hands off" during the first two years of his ownership when, financially, the die was cast. When you employ a CEO on over £500 kpa, who has shown his worth in the first 2 years of his tenure, it's understandable that you trust him to get on with the job. We may never know who sanctioned what, but when you hear about things like Mrs Ince's alleged scouting report, it's not surprising that there was a falling out when chickens were spied coming home to roost. Certainly, if it had been my money and my business, I'd have kept a close eye on the direction of travel in respect of future liabilities but we can only speculate how closely Mel was monitoring the budgets over those years. In his role as CEO however, I do also have to question wtf Rush was doing in that respect. 

Who do you blame or how do you explain the spending after that - hardly modest!

[PistoldPete]

31 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who do you blame or how do you explain the spending after that - hardly modest!

 No but most of it was in wages for players on long term contracts arranged by rush. 
 

but hey Mel signed the cheques , the buck does stop with him. Just not all his fault not by a long way.

[Crewton]

48 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

 No but most of it was in wages for players on long term contracts arranged by rush. 
 

but hey Mel signed the cheques , the buck does stop with him. Just not all his fault not by a long way.

Pretty much what I was going to say. With players signed on 4 year contracts in 2015 & 2016, major contract costs were locked in until 2019 or 2020. Transfer spending was IIRC fairly neutral after the end of 2016/17, but with "star" players at the club on anything between 20 - 40K per week, it would have been hard to attract players by offering them significantly lower wages. Rowett left because he realised that the cost-cutting was going to get even deeper (the other day I came across the notes of a Supporters Group meeting attended by Morris and Rowett from shortly after GR's appointment where MM stated clearly that GR knew he'd have to oversee cost savings), so by the time Rush left, Morris was apparently aware of how reckless the spending had become and had started to try to pull things around, hampered by having expensive players on long contracts who no-one wanted to buy. During 2017/18, it must have been clear there was a looming crisis, hence the decisions to sell the Stadium and change the amortisation method were taken in an attempt to "smooth the curve". Covid completed the perfect storm that was started by reckless spending over 2 seasons and fed by ultimate failure and under-performance on the pitch.

So, if Mel was aware of the scale of future liabilities being racked up between 2015-2017, he has to take 100% responsibility. If he left  Rush, Vickers et al to manage the finances, he was perhaps lax, perhaps naive, but also let down by those he entrusted and they too must share some responsibility. Those players who came, took the money and gave not a FF will have to square that with their own consciences.

[Mucker1884]

11 hours ago, Rev said:

Frankly, I'd see my family on the streets before I left this football club in the state he has. 

Seriously?  Are you for real?

Even though it's a given, I was always under the impression that we were not meant to actually come out and admit this in public.  Like it was almost unacceptable or something?  And yet here you are blurting it out for the whole world to see!

What were you thinking, man!

[Turnstile]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

 No but most of it was in wages for players on long term contracts arranged by rush. 
 

but hey Mel signed the cheques , the buck does stop with him. Just not all his fault not by a long way.

Completely Morris’s fault 100% ,the buck stops with him.Ignorance to what was going on is no excuse.If he didn’t know what was going on with Rush he should have done.

[Leeds Ram]

8 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

You asked for reasons why we were in a mess, not reasons for why we spent recklessly. But yes if EFL had negotiated a fairer tV deal for clubs like Derby, Mel  perhaps wouldn't  have felt the need to spend his own money to compete with teams in receipt of parachute money. The whole set up is not designed for a fair competition, as even Rick Parry has admitted.  

 Which are you, Leeds or a Ram?  

The reason why we're in a mess is because we spent recklessly.... every other club in the EFL has the same tv arrangement as we do and they're not in administration with massive debts to pay. Face it, Mel is to blame for running the club into the ground and he needs to take some responsibility for it. 

Of course I'm a leeds fan for pinning the blame of our dire financial situation on the owner....  My name is because I'm at university in Leeds (now I travel in 3 days a week to teach and hold office hours for my undergrad students but live in derbyshire). 

[Red Ram]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

The reason why we're in a mess is because we spent recklessly.... every other club in the EFL has the same tv arrangement as we do and they're not in administration with massive debts to pay. Face it, Mel is to blame for running the club into the ground and he needs to take some responsibility for it. 

Of course I'm a leeds fan for pinning the blame of our dire financial situation on the owner....  My name is because I'm at university in Leeds (now I travel in 3 days a week to teach and hold office hours for my undergrad students but live in derbyshire). 

Mel tripled the wage bill between 2014 and 2018 to the point where the wage bill was 150% of turnover. There was only one way that story was ever going to end and we're living through it right now. The responsibility for the club's predicament is his and his alone. It's self evident. Blaming the EFL is like blaming the speed camera when you get a speeding fine. It's a well known phenomenon known as 'my side bias'.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0963721413480174

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/10/09/my-side-bias-makes-it-difficult-for-us-to-see-the-logic-in-arguments-we-disagree-with/

Accusing other forum members of not being real fans because they don't agree with you is out of order. Then again, my user name is Red Ram so maybe I'm a Forest fan?

 

 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

The reason why we're in a mess is because we spent recklessly.... every other club in the EFL has the same tv arrangement as we do and they're not in administration with massive debts to pay. Face it, Mel is to blame for running the club into the ground and he needs to take some responsibility for it. 

Of course I'm a leeds fan for pinning the blame of our dire financial situation on the owner....  My name is because I'm at university in Leeds (now I travel in 3 days a week to teach and hold office hours for my undergrad students but live in derbyshire). 

No other club lost £20 million revenue due to COVID . We would not be in administration if not for that. Wigan went into administration so we are not the first and we won’t be the last.

[PistoldPete]

15 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Mel tripled the wage bill between 2014 and 2018 to the point where the wage bill was 150% of turnover. There was only one way that story was ever going to end and we're living through it right now. The responsibility for the club's predicament is his and his alone. It's self evident. Blaming the EFL is like blaming the speed camera when you get a speeding fine. It's a well known phenomenon known as 'my side bias'.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0963721413480174

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/10/09/my-side-bias-makes-it-difficult-for-us-to-see-the-logic-in-arguments-we-disagree-with/

Accusing other forum members of not being real fans because they don't agree with you is out of order. Then again, my user name is Red Ram so maybe I'm a Forest fan?

 

 

The way it would end is that we had to reduce that spending as it was unsustainable. And that was happening…  net transfer spend negative since 2015/16. Wage bill trimmed dramatically.

 

but how it actually ended was administration .. and that was due to COVID.

if COVID hadn’t happened admin wouldn’t have happened .

As for Bias I’m the one with a balanced view .. you are the ones blaming Mel Morris for everything that has gone wrong .

Edited October 19, 2021 by PistoldPete

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

I suspect that Mel was far too "hands off" during the first two years of his ownership when, financially, the die was cast. When you employ a CEO on over £500 kpa, who has shown his worth in the first 2 years of his tenure, it's understandable that you trust him to get on with the job. We may never know who sanctioned what, but when you hear about things like Mrs Ince's alleged scouting report, it's not surprising that there was a falling out when chickens were spied coming home to roost. Certainly, if it had been my money and my business, I'd have kept a close eye on the direction of travel in respect of future liabilities but we can only speculate how closely Mel was monitoring the budgets over those years. In his role as CEO however, I do also have to question wtf Rush was doing in that respect. 

If Morris knew what Rush was up to and let him do it, then Morris is incompetent and this mess his fault. If Morris did not know what Rush was doing, then he should have done, therefore is incompetent and this mess is still his fault.

[Angry Ram]

This thread has moved to surreal.. 

[i-Ram]

18 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

This thread has moved to surreal.. 

Very surreal. Even after Morris got rid of Rush in May 2017 and realised how out of control spending and wages were, he still went and paid big fees and/or wages on Tom Lawrence, Andre Wisdom, Tom Huddlestone, Cameron Jerome, Curtis Davies, Martyn Waghorn, Jack Marriott, Florian Jozefzoon, Duane Holmes, Scott Malone, George Evans, Krystal’s Bielik and Kamil Jozwiak. Oh and a significant chunk on loan signings too. Maybe Rush hypnotised Morris. That might explain it.

[Angry Ram]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Very surreal. Even after Morris got rid of Rush in May 2017 and realised how out of control spending and wages were, he still went and paid big fees and/or wages on Tom Lawrence, Andre Wisdom, Tom Huddlestone, Cameron Jerome, Curtis Davies, Martyn Waghorn, Jack Marriott, Florian Jozefzoon, Duane Holmes, Scott Malone, George Evans, Krystal’s Bielik and Kamil Jozwiak. Oh and a significant chunk on loan signings too. Maybe Rush hypnotised Morris. That might explain it.

Exactly but it was all Rush's fault.. Shakes head.

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Very surreal. Even after Morris got rid of Rush in May 2017 and realised how out of control spending and wages were, he still went and paid big fees and/or wages on Tom Lawrence, Andre Wisdom, Tom Huddlestone, Cameron Jerome, Curtis Davies, Martyn Waghorn, Jack Marriott, Florian Jozefzoon, Duane Holmes, Scott Malone, George Evans, Krystal’s Bielik and Kamil Jozwiak. Oh and a significant chunk on loan signings too. Maybe Rush hypnotised Morris. That might explain it.

All those were more than funded  by sales … Hendrick, Hughes, Ince , Vydra, bogle and Lowe … and we still got to two more play offs . Would Morris have got all the credit if we had beaten villa or dare I suggest super Frankie might have got the credit instead? 

[i-Ram]

15 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

All those were more than funded  by sales … Hendrick, Hughes, Ince , Vydra, bogle and Lowe … and we still got to two more play offs . Would Morris have got all the credit if we had beaten villa or dare I suggest super Frankie might have got the credit instead? 

They were funded by sales - Hendrick from memory financed other purchases - but the sales did give some opportunity for Mel to consider some rebalancing of the finances. He chose not to, and gave the wheel another spin or three. Didn’t get a great return on investment from the round of spend post Rush. 
I am not sure who would have got the credit if we had won a playoff final but I can think of one bloke who would have been all over TV, Radio, social media and printed press if it had of happened.

Edited October 19, 2021 by i-Ram

[Comrade 86]

[Rampage]

1 minute ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Who is this, dude.

[Rev]

30 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

They were funded by sales - Hendrick from memory financed other purchases - but the sales did give some opportunity for Mel to consider some rebalancing of the finances. He chose not to, and gave the wheel another spin or three. Didn’t get a great return on investment from the round of spend post Rush. 
I am not sure who would have got the credit if we had won a playoff final but I can think of one bloke who would have been all over TV, Radio, social media and printed press if it had of happened.

The name's Morris.

Jody Morris.

[oomarkwright]

10 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Who is this, dude.

Jeff Bridges.