Hypocrisy !

[Chris_Martin]

18 hours ago, Seaside Ram said:

It made me chuckle last night when after Sterling , Kane and Grealish had dived England into the Final they are described as clever or cute.

But if a Bloody Foreigner does it they are dirty cheats who need banning for 10 games.  When will a commentator or fan just say ' we got away with one there ! ' 

Ridiculous Hypocrisy in my eyes !!

stop finding things to moan about and just enjoy it!

if it was a blatant dive then VAR would've overturned the decision. For once England are playing clever like all the other nations have been for years. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

50 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

While I will support England as a team I revile England fans - they never fail to show everything that is bad about our country, remain tainted in right wing bias and overly 'Brexity' patriotism. Very little endearing about them, booing the national anthems being a good case in point. Remember standing outside a pub in London in the 80s (we were playing Brazil) and watching a group of England fans lobbing pint pots onto anyone black who walked through the underpass below. Sorry, but much of that way of thinking is still present in 'the' England fan and it is why nothing could convince me to actually go watch them live ever again.

Whilst we should avoid "tarring with the same brush" there is something of the uglyness that still attches itself to football in general and to the England support. However, this is an unusally likeable England team and manager and at tournaments the reach goes far beyond and does affect a great many pople.

Living in Scotland has been fantastic over the Euros, even marked by a midlands accent in glasgow, there's a lot of fun, banter and a great spirit.

 

[Leeds Ram]

2 hours ago, Coconut said:

Judging by the OTT, inescapable, unbearably smug, excessively saccharine media response to them finally not ducking up a semi final or earlier round at a major tournament I'd say the fear is very justified.

You'd think we were a country on the level of Estonia and it's some sort of miraculous achievement against all odds and expectations for us to even be in the competition. The hype is absolutely ducking unbelievable.

Then there's the whole patriotic overload, the insinuation that "the whole nation" was sat there a nervous wreck throughout the match and a blubbering mess after it, all waving their flags and singing along to "Sweet Caroline" (I mean ducking hell, really?) while they hug their mates; that they'll be marking it down on the calendar as the greatest day of their lives, or soon to be the second greatest day of their lives, all because England have finally done something they should have been able to do years ago and done repeatedly, but kept ducking it up.

I'm surprised there aren't calls for 7th July itself to be made a public holiday, never mind the 11th!

Supporting England feels the same to me as the idea of dancing at a wedding reception, or clapping along and raising lighters at a gig but only when the band says so; an audience swaying their arms on X-Factor because there's a light above stage telling the it's their time to do so... and everyone bloody does it. Probably in time to Sweet Caroline. Kill me.

A total cringefest of enforced togetherness and mandated enjoyment. "If you're not full of joyous emotion right now there's something wrong with you!I" - not said directly, but heavily implied when listening to Sam Matterface's overbearing commentary.  The last thing it did was make me feel involved, if anything it's pushed me further away.

Can't even have a little smirk of schadenfreude at England losing to an inferior team anymore, it's been written that they've already achieved greatness by getting to a final and, because it's against Italy in a sick twist of fate England are the underdog, and I've sworn to support the bloody underdog, haven't I? duck.

I can only imagine how bad it'll get, and for how long, if they actually win it. Maybe all channels broadcasting any content involving an English football fan will go off air as the sight of everyone disappearing up each other's arses is seen as obscene material? Oh poo, just remembered it'll be after the watershed so anything goes, and maybe everyone will just spontaneously combust so there's nobody to turn off the feed.

God it's going to be unwatchable.

It's been 55 years since we've been to a final and we've only ever reached one semi final before in a European championship. The English team are literally making history, it's not a regular occurrence (literally once in a lifetime for most of us) but yet the broadcasters and us are making too much of it? yes, the coverage has been overly sentimental but you're writing as if you're alien to the world of football- the entire emotional dynamic of football (all sport really) is centered around sentimentality creating an emotional resonance that is by definition overindulgent and simultaneously fleeting. 

Combined with this is the easing of lockdown after a very long year and a half it's creating the perfect storm for a festival of 'cringeworthy joy' in your head I'm sure but for many of us it's an outburst of joy and sentimentality that football does bring in that 90 minutes (and for a few hours afterwards). Yes sweet caroline is an anodyne song on its own but when you have 70,000 people singing it at wembley or 200 in a crowded pub or 1,500 in a town centre at midnight it is not the song but the unity and collective joy that  it's emphasising and expressing giving it its power. 

 Have you not seen the tv viewing figures for all the games since the knockout rounds? The semi final was literally the most watched live event in UK tv history- pretty much the entire country was watching as the audience share was creeping around the 90% figure and I don't believe that even counts the pubs. I mean even newsnight were covering it for a good portion of their show. So, the 'insinuation' that the vast majority of the country were watching and invested was just stating the truth that we were. 

If you don't want to watch that's of course up to you and if you find the entire atmosphere cringe inducing then that's your opinion. Yes, people overstate the ability of football to bring people together (world cup 2018 for example) and yes it is overly sentimental that can be deemed as off putting akin to forced enjoyment. But when the vast majority of the country is watching and celebrating it's not unfair to point that fact out. Personally, I love tournament football precisely for moments like these where people generally let go of big differences for small periods of time, stop thinking about the more important stuff have some fun and enjoy one another's company. Actually, it's why I love football full stop! 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Leeds Ram

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, Coconut said:

Judging by the OTT, inescapable, unbearably smug, excessively saccharine media response to them finally not ducking up a semi final or earlier round at a major tournament I'd say the fear is very justified.

You'd think we were a country on the level of Estonia and it's some sort of miraculous achievement against all odds and expectations for us to even be in the competition. The hype is absolutely ducking unbelievable.

Then there's the whole patriotic overload, the insinuation that "the whole nation" was sat there a nervous wreck throughout the match and a blubbering mess after it, all waving their flags and singing along to "Sweet Caroline" (I mean ducking hell, really?) while they hug their mates; that they'll be marking it down on the calendar as the greatest day of their lives, or soon to be the second greatest day of their lives, all because England have finally done something they should have been able to do years ago and done repeatedly, but kept ducking it up.

I'm surprised there aren't calls for 7th July itself to be made a public holiday, never mind the 11th!

Supporting England feels the same to me as the idea of dancing at a wedding reception, or clapping along and raising lighters at a gig but only when the band says so; an audience swaying their arms on X-Factor because there's a light above stage telling the it's their time to do so... and everyone bloody does it. Probably in time to Sweet Caroline. Kill me.

A total cringefest of enforced togetherness and mandated enjoyment. "If you're not full of joyous emotion right now there's something wrong with you!I" - not said directly, but heavily implied when listening to Sam Matterface's overbearing commentary.  The last thing it did was make me feel involved, if anything it's pushed me further away.

Can't even have a little smirk of schadenfreude at England losing to an inferior team anymore, it's been written that they've already achieved greatness by getting to a final and, because it's against Italy in a sick twist of fate England are the underdog, and I've sworn to support the bloody underdog, haven't I? duck.

I can only imagine how bad it'll get, and for how long, if they actually win it. Maybe all channels broadcasting any content involving an English football fan will go off air as the sight of everyone disappearing up each other's arses is seen as obscene material? Oh poo, just remembered it'll be after the watershed so anything goes, and maybe everyone will just spontaneously combust so there's nobody to turn off the feed.

God it's going to be unwatchable.

I can't tell if you're English or not, but if you are and you're not enjoying it that's your choice, but it's making a lot of other people happy. Is it really that surprising that a broadcaster/newspaper is overselling something they're selling? 

and if you aren't enjoying it, why are you watching it? Patriot Games was on Channel 4 at the same time so you could have been watching Harrison Ford instead.

(I also agree with everything you said about ITV. I hate ITV and everything it stands for).

[Mr Tibbs]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Hypocrisy is non-England fans trying to tell us we should be ashamed of it, or trying to devalue our victory when they think that Maradona's hand ball, Ronaldo's wink, Lampard's ghost goal, Simeone's theatrics are all hilarious.

Show me a football fan (club or international) that has never celebrated a win for their team off the back of a favourable decision and I'll show you a liar.

Summed up nicely. 

We know it was a horrifically soft penalty and we'd all be sick to go out to a decision like that. We have done in previous tournaments. But what are people actually expecting us to say? Forfeit the game? Give Denmark the win?

I''d rather Sterling not dive to win us games because I hate it. Just like I hate our fans boo'ing other nations anthems because I hate that too. Am I daft enough to think its just an English problem? Certainly not but because its us it gets blown out of proportion like everything else. 

 

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

2 hours ago, Coconut said:

Judging by the OTT, inescapable, unbearably smug, excessively saccharine media response to them finally not ducking up a semi final or earlier round at a major tournament I'd say the fear is very justified.

You'd think we were a country on the level of Estonia and it's some sort of miraculous achievement against all odds and expectations for us to even be in the competition. The hype is absolutely ducking unbelievable.

Then there's the whole patriotic overload, the insinuation that "the whole nation" was sat there a nervous wreck throughout the match and a blubbering mess after it, all waving their flags and singing along to "Sweet Caroline" (I mean ducking hell, really?) while they hug their mates; that they'll be marking it down on the calendar as the greatest day of their lives, or soon to be the second greatest day of their lives, all because England have finally done something they should have been able to do years ago and done repeatedly, but kept ducking it up.

I'm surprised there aren't calls for 7th July itself to be made a public holiday, never mind the 11th!

Supporting England feels the same to me as the idea of dancing at a wedding reception, or clapping along and raising lighters at a gig but only when the band says so; an audience swaying their arms on X-Factor because there's a light above stage telling the it's their time to do so... and everyone bloody does it. Probably in time to Sweet Caroline. Kill me.

A total cringefest of enforced togetherness and mandated enjoyment. "If you're not full of joyous emotion right now there's something wrong with you!I" - not said directly, but heavily implied when listening to Sam Matterface's overbearing commentary.  The last thing it did was make me feel involved, if anything it's pushed me further away.

Can't even have a little smirk of schadenfreude at England losing to an inferior team anymore, it's been written that they've already achieved greatness by getting to a final and, because it's against Italy in a sick twist of fate England are the underdog, and I've sworn to support the bloody underdog, haven't I? duck.

I can only imagine how bad it'll get, and for how long, if they actually win it. Maybe all channels broadcasting any content involving an English football fan will go off air as the sight of everyone disappearing up each other's arses is seen as obscene material? Oh poo, just remembered it'll be after the watershed so anything goes, and maybe everyone will just spontaneously combust so there's nobody to turn off the feed.

God it's going to be unwatchable.

I'll be honest, I disagree with almost every word of that.

[Leeds Ram]

35 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's been 55 years since we've been to a final and we've only ever reached one semi final before in a European championship. The English team are literally making history, it's not a regular occurrence (literally once in a lifetime for most of us) but yet the broadcasters and us are making too much of it? yes, the coverage has been overly sentimental but you're writing as if you're alien to the world of football- the entire emotional dynamic of football (all sport really) is centered around sentimentality creating an emotional resonance that is by definition overindulgent and simultaneously fleeting. 

Combined with this is the easing of lockdown after a very long year and a half it's creating the perfect storm for a festival of 'cringeworthy joy' in your head I'm sure but for many of us it's an outburst of joy and sentimentality that football does bring in that 90 minutes (and for a few hours afterwards). Yes sweet caroline is an anodyne song on its own but when you have 70,000 people singing it at wembley or 200 in a crowded pub or 1,500 in a town centre at midnight it is not the song but the unity and collective joy that  it's emphasising and expressing giving it its power. 

 Have you not seen the tv viewing figures for all the games since the knockout rounds? The semi final was literally the most watched live event in UK tv history- pretty much the entire country was watching as the audience share was creeping around the 90% figure and I don't believe that even counts the pubs. I mean even newsnight were covering it for a good portion of their show. So, the 'insinuation' that the vast majority of the country were watching and invested was just stating the truth that we were. 

If you don't want to watch that's of course up to you and if you find the entire atmosphere cringe inducing then that's your opinion. Yes, people overstate the ability of football to bring people together (world cup 2018 for example) and yes it is overly sentimental that can be deemed as off putting akin to forced enjoyment. But when the vast majority of the country is watching and celebrating it's not unfair to point that fact out. Personally, I love tournament football precisely for moments like these where people generally let go of big differences for small periods of time, stop thinking about the more important stuff have some fun and enjoy one another's company. Actually, it's why I love football full stop! 

biggest live tv football audience* 

[May Contain Nuts]

9 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

you're writing as if you're alien to the world of football

Exactly, that's how national support makes me feel - alienated! I'm not asking others to agree with me or criticising people who do care and have expressed their delight, it's just a personal thing that requires a little rant sometimes! Maybe some others can relate though, so it's always worth posting.

My post was intentionally heightening reality, of course, not to be taken completely at face value.

I am alien to the world of supporting a national team just because it happens to be where you're born - while we're talking hypocrisy I know saying that and supporting Derby seems at odds, but it's about scale! Being a Derby supporter you're one of maybe 50,000 in a country of 56 million and although I don't necessarily see eye to eye with them all, they are still 'we', and we have something in common that goes against the norm.

Being an England supporter? Well you're just one of the masses in their millions, you're just 'the general public' really, no individuality. You're mainstream, you're basic. The years and years behind me of hating what the mainstream are supposed to like whilst it's forced down our throats has taken it's toll, but it's one of the reasons I can't get behind the national team! It may seem or be weird, but it is what it is.

I don't see people who were born in other countries as the enemy or feel any desire for 'us' to beat them. I'd genuinely rather someone see a smaller nation defy the odds and beat England than England stroll to another comfortable victory, because I know that England will always get another chance at the top table and the smaller nation might not. I don't even get upset when Derby lose to a lower league team in one of the cups tbh!

I can't start supporting a bunch of (mostly) Premier League players with scant connection to Derby (although I was very pleased for Mount & Powell) who I wouldn't otherwise give a toss about when wearing their club colours just because they're in an England shirt.  I don't all of a sudden start supporting Man Utd/Chelsea/Liverpool etc if they're in a Champions league game against a European team so for me it's exactly the same principle I apply to England.

Back to the topic of hypocrisy, I always find the sneering and condescending attitude towards Scotland/Wales/Ireland fans celebrating England's demise or when they overhype their own achievements massively hypocritical. Those teams are relative minnows, they're not really supposed to be competing with England. As if those no fan of a lesser club has ever laughed at Man Utd losing to Southampton and blaming it on a grey kit, or anything similar to that.

Anyway, that's probably as much as anyone needs to read on my thoughts for one major tournament! I'll shut up now and try to enjoy England's impending victory - I might just have to turn the TV off as soon as the final whistle goes and leave it off for 6 months.

[MuespachRam]

3 hours ago, Coconut said:

Judging by the OTT, inescapable, unbearably smug, excessively saccharine media response to them finally not ducking up a semi final or earlier round at a major tournament I'd say the fear is very justified.

You'd think we were a country on the level of Estonia and it's some sort of miraculous achievement against all odds and expectations for us to even be in the competition. The hype is absolutely ducking unbelievable.

Then there's the whole patriotic overload, the insinuation that "the whole nation" was sat there a nervous wreck throughout the match and a blubbering mess after it, all waving their flags and singing along to "Sweet Caroline" (I mean ducking hell, really?) while they hug their mates; that they'll be marking it down on the calendar as the greatest day of their lives, or soon to be the second greatest day of their lives, all because England have finally done something they should have been able to do years ago and done repeatedly, but kept ducking it up.

I'm surprised there aren't calls for 7th July itself to be made a public holiday, never mind the 11th!

Supporting England feels the same to me as the idea of dancing at a wedding reception, or clapping along and raising lighters at a gig but only when the band says so; an audience swaying their arms on X-Factor because there's a light above stage telling the it's their time to do so... and everyone bloody does it. Probably in time to Sweet Caroline. Kill me.

A total cringefest of enforced togetherness and mandated enjoyment. "If you're not full of joyous emotion right now there's something wrong with you!I" - not said directly, but heavily implied when listening to Sam Matterface's overbearing commentary.  The last thing it did was make me feel involved, if anything it's pushed me further away.

Can't even have a little smirk of schadenfreude at England losing to an inferior team anymore, it's been written that they've already achieved greatness by getting to a final and, because it's against Italy in a sick twist of fate England are the underdog, and I've sworn to support the bloody underdog, haven't I? duck.

I can only imagine how bad it'll get, and for how long, if they actually win it. Maybe all channels broadcasting any content involving an English football fan will go off air as the sight of everyone disappearing up each other's arses is seen as obscene material? Oh poo, just remembered it'll be after the watershed so anything goes, and maybe everyone will just spontaneously combust so there's nobody to turn off the feed.

God it's going to be unwatchable.

Wow….must be a barrel of laughs at your house over Christmas….

 

is It Sunday yet….?

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

Henry Winter said in The Times says England are learning to be "streetwise", that's just ballocks. Michael Owen only needed to be touched by a feather to go down. Typically, English players don't roll around, screaming blue murder and  looking like they've been shot, that I (Johnny Foreigner) agree, to say they don't dive is talking merde/merda/sheize (take your pick swear filter).

Enjoy the game and beat the Italians at their own game, go and get a dodgy pen from a blatant dive!

 

 

[Leeds Ram]

22 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Exactly, that's how national support makes me feel - alienated! I'm not asking others to agree with me or criticising people who do care and have expressed their delight, it's just a personal thing that requires a little rant sometimes! Maybe some others can relate though, so it's always worth posting.

My post was intentionally heightening reality, of course, not to be taken completely at face value.

I am alien to the world of supporting a national team just because it happens to be where you're born - while we're talking hypocrisy I know saying that and supporting Derby seems at odds, but it's about scale! Being a Derby supporter you're one of maybe 50,000 in a country of 56 million and although I don't necessarily see eye to eye with them all, they are still 'we', and we have something in common that goes against the norm.

Being an England supporter? Well you're just one of the masses in their millions, you're just 'the general public' really, no individuality. You're mainstream, you're basic. The years and years behind me of hating what the mainstream are supposed to like whilst it's forced down our throats has taken it's toll, but it's one of the reasons I can't get behind the national team! It may seem or be weird, but it is what it is.

I don't see people who were born in other countries as the enemy or feel any desire for 'us' to beat them. I'd genuinely rather someone see a smaller nation defy the odds and beat England than England stroll to another comfortable victory, because I know that England will always get another chance at the top table and the smaller nation might not. I don't even get upset when Derby lose to a lower league team in one of the cups tbh!

I can't start supporting a bunch of (mostly) Premier League players with scant connection to Derby (although I was very pleased for Mount & Powell) who I wouldn't otherwise give a toss about when wearing their club colours just because they're in an England shirt.  I don't all of a sudden start supporting Man Utd/Chelsea/Liverpool etc if they're in a Champions league game against a European team so for me it's exactly the same principle I apply to England.

Back to the topic of hypocrisy, I always find the sneering and condescending attitude towards Scotland/Wales/Ireland fans celebrating England's demise or when they overhype their own achievements massively hypocritical. Those teams are relative minnows, they're not really supposed to be competing with England. As if those no fan of a lesser club has ever laughed at Man Utd losing to Southampton and blaming it on a grey kit, or anything similar to that.

Anyway, that's probably as much as anyone needs to read on my thoughts for one major tournament! I'll shut up now and try to enjoy England's impending victory - I might just have to turn the TV off as soon as the final whistle goes and leave it off for 6 months.

This comes across better than your previous post tbh. I still don't agree as those things you attach yourself to Derby are also connected with national identity on a bigger scale using different tools such as language but similar fundamental necessities- it's essentially the basis of Benedict Anderson's work 'imagined communities' that defines how a lot of scholars see national identity. Unless you think we're connected by our difference to the norm which I would suggest is not what connects Derby fans but rather our connection is the fostering of our own norms and identity that binds us together. 

The argument of going against the norm somehow being a prime basis for being a Derby supporter also doesn't make a lot of sense to me, are you saying if Derby made it big and became massive across the globe suddenly you'd lose your attachment to the club? This odd feeling of individuality by defying norms just means you're putting yourself into another category of anti-mainstream culture because it's mainstream which is also surprisingly common amongst a lot of younger people around university age. So you're not really fostering individuality but rather buying into a collective counter culture which ultimately defeats its very purpose. 

No, I don't suddenly start supporting Chelsea etc. in a champions league final because they're not fundamentally representing me, they're representing their club. England players are literally representing us so it's not the same principle really. I also don't think you need to attach a high level of enmity to our opponents in national football just as in club football. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Leeds Ram

[May Contain Nuts]

29 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

The argument of going against the norm somehow being a prime basis for being a Derby supporter also doesn't make a lot of sense to me, are you saying if Derby made it big and became massive across the globe suddenly you'd lose your attachment to the club? This odd feeling of individuality by defying norms just means you're putting yourself into another category of anti-mainstream culture because it's mainstream which is also surprisingly common amongst a lot of younger people around university age. So you're not really fostering individuality but rather buying into a collective counter culture which ultimately defeats its very purpose. 

There's a difference between supporting / enjoying something that becomes big and doing so because it is big.

You could be perusing a few small music review websites and come across a band you've never heard of, give them a listen and then check their Facebook page, only 500 likes. You get really into them and within 5 years they've blown up...  no, you don't stop being a fan because they've become 'mainstream'.

You could be looking at a different website, listen to a band's album, check the internet to find they've got 15 million likes, played all over the radio, been on TV chat shows, everything... but you haven't seen any of that, and you like the album. You don't then say... "but I refuse listen to them because they're mainstream"

It's often about how you've come to find what it is you're supporting, the same way a football fan might have identified an Academy player they thought was set for stardom back when they were 14, they'll take more of an interest watching them rise through the ranks than they will in a player the club with a worldwide reputation who's just signed for £50m.

...but this is going so far off topic I don't see any real point in expanding further.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Coconut

[Alph]

4 hours ago, Coconut said:

Judging by the OTT, inescapable, unbearably smug, excessively saccharine media response to them finally not ducking up a semi final or earlier round at a major tournament I'd say the fear is very justified.

You'd think we were a country on the level of Estonia and it's some sort of miraculous achievement against all odds and expectations for us to even be in the competition. The hype is absolutely ducking unbelievable.

Then there's the whole patriotic overload, the insinuation that "the whole nation" was sat there a nervous wreck throughout the match and a blubbering mess after it, all waving their flags and singing along to "Sweet Caroline" (I mean ducking hell, really?) while they hug their mates; that they'll be marking it down on the calendar as the greatest day of their lives, or soon to be the second greatest day of their lives, all because England have finally done something they should have been able to do years ago and done repeatedly, but kept ducking it up.

I'm surprised there aren't calls for 7th July itself to be made a public holiday, never mind the 11th!

Supporting England feels the same to me as the idea of dancing at a wedding reception, or clapping along and raising lighters at a gig but only when the band says so; an audience swaying their arms on X-Factor because there's a light above stage telling the it's their time to do so... and everyone bloody does it. Probably in time to Sweet Caroline. Kill me.

A total cringefest of enforced togetherness and mandated enjoyment. "If you're not full of joyous emotion right now there's something wrong with you!I" - not said directly, but heavily implied when listening to Sam Matterface's overbearing commentary.  The last thing it did was make me feel involved, if anything it's pushed me further away.

Can't even have a little smirk of schadenfreude at England losing to an inferior team anymore, it's been written that they've already achieved greatness by getting to a final and, because it's against Italy in a sick twist of fate England are the underdog, and I've sworn to support the bloody underdog, haven't I? duck.

I can only imagine how bad it'll get, and for how long, if they actually win it. Maybe all channels broadcasting any content involving an English football fan will go off air as the sight of everyone disappearing up each other's arses is seen as obscene material? Oh poo, just remembered it'll be after the watershed so anything goes, and maybe everyone will just spontaneously combust so there's nobody to turn off the feed.

God it's going to be unwatchable.

Sounds good to me. 

The England team isn't ongoing. This group has no past, no failure to live up to the hype. That's why they're different. 

You sound pretty unhappy about the idea of English people being happy about England making a major final with a new and refreshingly humble bunch. 

I mean Derby have threatened to be promoted a lot recently but should that be seen as a negative if they actually achieve it? 

The attitude that you have towards England is one I would expect from a Scotland fan. Its the attitude I'd expect from a Forest fan in the Derby context. 

People have had a poo time recently. Football/sport being back is quite a big deal. Add that to the fact England have made the final and I can see why there are happy people.

I just don't get why some English people are determined to hate on it. This England team hasn't done anything to let anyone down. This manager has done nothing to disappoint anyone. 

And I know if England were knocked out in the group people would say "same old England. Not good enough".

Those same people if England win on Sunday will be saying how lucky they were, how it just shows how bad they've been in the past etc etc. 

No offence but I hope the cringey love in is still bothering you from Monday onwards. 

I certainly don't think you'll see this positivity around Derby this season so there's that to enjoy

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Bloody hell lighten up everyone.

Will be the best day of my life (so far) if we win on Sunday. Won't make any apologies for that.

[BucksRam]

40 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Exactly, that's how national support makes me feel - alienated! I'm not asking others to agree with me or criticising people who do care and have expressed their delight, it's just a personal thing that requires a little rant sometimes! Maybe some others can relate though, so it's always worth posting.

My post was intentionally heightening reality, of course, not to be taken completely at face value.

I am alien to the world of supporting a national team just because it happens to be where you're born - while we're talking hypocrisy I know saying that and supporting Derby seems at odds, but it's about scale! Being a Derby supporter you're one of maybe 50,000 in a country of 56 million and although I don't necessarily see eye to eye with them all, they are still 'we', and we have something in common that goes against the norm.

Being an England supporter? Well you're just one of the masses in their millions, you're just 'the general public' really, no individuality. You're mainstream, you're basic. The years and years behind me of hating what the mainstream are supposed to like whilst it's forced down our throats has taken it's toll, but it's one of the reasons I can't get behind the national team! It may seem or be weird, but it is what it is.

I don't see people who were born in other countries as the enemy or feel any desire for 'us' to beat them. I'd genuinely rather someone see a smaller nation defy the odds and beat England than England stroll to another comfortable victory, because I know that England will always get another chance at the top table and the smaller nation might not. I don't even get upset when Derby lose to a lower league team in one of the cups tbh!

I can't start supporting a bunch of (mostly) Premier League players with scant connection to Derby (although I was very pleased for Mount & Powell) who I wouldn't otherwise give a toss about when wearing their club colours just because they're in an England shirt.  I don't all of a sudden start supporting Man Utd/Chelsea/Liverpool etc if they're in a Champions league game against a European team so for me it's exactly the same principle I apply to England.

Back to the topic of hypocrisy, I always find the sneering and condescending attitude towards Scotland/Wales/Ireland fans celebrating England's demise or when they overhype their own achievements massively hypocritical. Those teams are relative minnows, they're not really supposed to be competing with England. As if those no fan of a lesser club has ever laughed at Man Utd losing to Southampton and blaming it on a grey kit, or anything similar to that.

Anyway, that's probably as much as anyone needs to read on my thoughts for one major tournament! I'll shut up now and try to enjoy England's impending victory - I might just have to turn the TV off as soon as the final whistle goes and leave it off for 6 months.

Well worded and comes across much more informatively than your original post that I must admit had my eyebrows rising all of their own accord.  I get you, I really do.  I don't support the Premier League players either (maybe Mount a bit as he was with us) but I do support the England national team as I'm English; it has nothing to do with following the masses or not being an individual.  Those who know me well know me as someone who never follows the herd unless I decide I want to and not because someone thinks I should.  I've alienated myself in the past because of this but that's a rule I've lived by since I was a kid.  

Do I like the attitude of a large number of England supporters? No.  Years of arrogance and aggressiveness remain and will take quite some time yet to disappear.  Am I happy to see one of the other home nations fail? If it's to our benefit, then yeah.  If it's Wales, Scotland etc against someone else, and we're not impacted, then yeah, I'd want them to do well since, being English I am part of the UK.  I have a Scottish friend who I asked if they'd support England since the bonnie Scots were out.  Simple answer No. But then I also have a Welsh friend who I asked the same question to, and he answered Absolutely.  And there's the root of the problem with the home nations.  But that feeling of, dare I say hatred, against England goes back 100s of years and will take probably the same again to change.  One of my other best mates hates football. Really, really hates it - calls all players overpaid, pre Madonna pu55ies.  He is rugby through and through.  BUT he is also English and will be watching the final as "Well it's England isn't it, although I hate football, we're in a major final and I want to see England win". To many this will be a once in a lifetime experience. 

And as for being a Derby supporter, well I'm not even from Derby, I'm over 100 miles away.  Pretty sure if I joined many on here for a beer in the pub I'd stand out like a sore thumb due to my southern accent.  But I love this club, have supported it for nigh on 45 years, and regardless of whether we're Championship, League 1 or Premier League, I will continue to support it as it's my team, as England also is my team.

Please do enjoy the game Sunday, raise a beer to the masses when (not if!) we win then by all means turn off the TV and read a book. I for one will be watching the TV, hopefully reliving every moment and just for a while forgetting about the utterly shi7 last 18 months I've personally had before I go back to the reality of work on Monday.  ? 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

The semi final was literally the most watched live event in UK tv history

Excellent post but I'll pick you up on this one tiny detail...

it was the highest peaking sporting event on a single channel in UK history. Just behind the 1970 FA Cup Final replay (BBC and ITV) and a bout 5m behind the 66 WC Final (also BBC and ITV)

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Excellent post but I'll pick you up on this one tiny detail...

it was the highest peaking sporting event on a single channel in UK history. Just behind the 1970 FA Cup Final replay (BBC and ITV) and a bout 5m behind the 66 WC Final (also BBC and ITV)

 my bad and thanks for the correction! ? I wonder if we'll beat the record on sunday :) 

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

 my bad and thanks for the correction! ? I wonder if we'll beat the record on sunday ?

It's hard to imagine we won't beat it

[hintonsboots]

It was a soft penalty and I’d have been disappointed if given against us. But nice to have a decision go our way, we’ve had cheating Argentinians pull the wool over the refs eyes before now, and Ronaldo winking his way to victory.

The sooner VAR is rebranded as the TMO, and is allowed to help the ref manage the game, the better. 

Time to reform the offside rule an all, with daylight needed between attacker and last defender, fans want to see goals.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Can I just say that yes, Maradona handled the first goal against England back in 86. But we were miles behind them and barely had a sniff. It was hardly a game changing moment, I was watching the game and it was very much a case of when, not if, for the Argentina team.