Yankee Doodle Derby

[IslandExile]

9 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9580807/Potential-Derby-County-buyers-WALKING-AWAY-discovering-debts-60MILLION.html

You'd have thought that would have been established very early in the negotiations though....

[DCFC1388]

Just now, IslandExile said:

You'd have thought that would have been established very early in the negotiations though....

You would have thought so

[DCFC1388]

Also, not sure why they say we wouldnt be worth 60m, wasnt that around the sort of price Mel was first looking at anyway so doesnt seem to have changed. Like in the Alonso deal it would be 5m a month for the first year

[IslandExile]

9 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

You'd have thought that would have been established very early in the negotiations though....

 

8 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

You would have thought so

I guess the negotiation has been revolving around how much Mel is prepared to 'stump up' himself.

What a very sorry state.

I'm starting to be very afraid now of the future of our club.

[DCFC1388]

2 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

 

I guess the negotiation has been revolving around how much Mel is prepared to 'stump up' himself.

What a very sorry state.

I'm starting to be very afraid now of the future of our club.

Dont see why the new owner should foot any outstanding HMRC bill whether its 20m of not. If it relates to the period Mel owns us its his cost to pay surely.

[Jourdan]

Debts and liabilities of up to £60 million?

The frightening thing is if we were to sell Bielik, Jozwiak, Knight, Sibley, Bird and Buchanan, would it even make a dent?

What a shocking state of affairs.

Just when you think this club and the people in charge couldn't shock you any more, they find a way.

[RammingStone66]

7 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Debts and liabilities of up to £60 million?

The frightening thing is if we were to sell Bielik, Jozwiak, Knight, Sibley, Bird and Buchanan, would it even make a dent?

What a shocking state of affairs.

Just when you think this club and the people in charge couldn't shock you any more, they find a way.

Amazing a year ago people were saying we shouldn't take less than 15mill for Sibley....would you get 15mill total for all of the youngsters together? Do we know what we actually got for Bogle and Lowe, some reports were like 11-14mill with incentives and others I saw were as low as 4 mill?

[kevinhectoring]

7 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

Dont see why the new owner should foot any outstanding HMRC bill whether its 20m of not. If it relates to the period Mel owns us its his cost to pay surely.

Wondered whether the tax related to a capital gain on the stadium sale. Anyone know how that works ?

[Curtains]

Not great but the last bit of the article puts it into perspective .

Just another case of the media having a go at us  IMO 

 

“Meanwhile, Morris has told Sportsmail that the £60m figure quoted is based on a ‘worst case scenario’. He also makes the point that the MSD loan equates roughly to the stadium mortgage he cleared after buying the club.

And with regards the HMRC debt, Morris says many Championship clubs have had to rely on a deferral of PAYE taxes to cope with the impact of Covid-19 and how it has decimated club revenues.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9580807/Potential-Derby-County-buyers-WALKING-AWAY-discovering-debts-60MILLION.html
 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Curtains
Altered

[jimtastic56]

It looks like somebody is going to get DCFC  for £1 and will have to take on all the debt.Players can walk away if they don’t get paid. I am sure the vultures are circling. Mel is leaving us in a sorry mess.

[BramcoteRam84]

We were living beyond our means pre-pandemic as nearly all football clubs do. No one plans for a global pandemic, what’s our revenue been in the last 12 months given we don’t have parachute payments? All our main revenue streams with exception of TV have disappeared. Where else is the cash going to come from except loans or Mel’s pocket?! I don’t know what people expect. Rolls-Royce lost £2bn last year, generated liquidity by a share issue and taking out loans and is taking other cost cutting measures.  It’s been mentioned that at least 10 other championship clubs are struggling, it’s just we’re the only ones under scrutiny due to FFP, trying to sell the club and the fact Wayne Rooney is also at the club - we are news.

Reality is probably not as bad as the Daily Mail reporter is making out (he is the guy Newcastle banned from press conferences by the way due to his brand of negative sensationalism and the fact he goes about it like a complete Bamford). I don’t get the £20m HMRC bit for a start, seems from Mel’s comments that due to extensions that many clubs have been granted. 

Nevertheless it isn’t good, key is whether Mel can or is willing to underwrite at least some of the debt.  I agree buyers are not going to want to take that on. 
 

I think he needs to start levelling with us about the future.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

We were living beyond our means pre-pandemic as nearly all football clubs do. No one plans for a global pandemic, what’s our revenue been in the last 12 months given we don’t have parachute payments? All our main revenue streams with exception of TV have disappeared. Where else is the cash going to come from except loans or Mel’s pocket?! I don’t know what people expect. Rolls-Royce lost £2bn last year, generated liquidity by a share issue and taking out loans and is taking other cost cutting measures.  It’s been mentioned that at least 10 other championship clubs are struggling, it’s just we’re the only ones under scrutiny due to FFP, trying to sell the club and the fact Wayne Rooney is also at the club - we are news.

Reality is probably not as bad as the Daily Mail reporter is making out (he is the guy Newcastle banned from press conferences by the way due to his brand of negative sensationalism and the fact he goes about it like a complete Bamford). I don’t get the £20m HMRC bit for a start, seems from Mel’s comments that due to extensions that many clubs have been granted. 

Nevertheless it isn’t good, key is whether Mel can or is willing to underwrite at least some of the debt.  I agree buyers are not going to want to take that on. 
 

I think he needs to start levelling with us about the future.

I think he has to sell us for 1 pound and halve the debt himself and walk away .

Either that or stay on and run the club. 
 

Admin / Liquidation I dare say is the worst case scenario .

[kevinhectoring]

57 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think he has to sell us for 1 pound and halve the debt himself and walk away .

Either that or stay on and run the club. 
 

Admin / Liquidation I dare say is the worst case scenario .

Mel seems trapped. He wants to stop the cash drain. His loyalties mean he can’t contemplate administration. But with Covid variants now threatening next season’s revenues, it must be incredibly hard to agree a sale price. Any sensible purchaser would just drag their feet as he continues to pour cash into the abyss. 
 

[Sparkle]

Hard to sell anything football related when there is a pandemic going on for any club - whilst our troubles are being enflamed by the national media other clubs must be in similar positions but any potential owner would think ( mistakenly) that they could sell 28-30,000 tickets to us lot.

there is a major football reset occurring this summer with so many players being released who will not get other jobs because the money simply will not be coming in and no club can guarantee selling players anymore as well as being unable to afford loan fees.

the parachute clubs will be be so far away from the rest this season it will be staggering 

[Asanovic70]

I'm not a fan of Sam Rush, but it may be that GSW, previously GSE, & Andy Appleby, (alongside Rush) are one of the few viable options available if they were one of the parties rumored to be interested in taking us over (again). Morris may have to swallow his pride and work with them. Our finances are complicated (understatement), as they are probably for many sides especially in light of the last 18 months.

We may need a period where Morris works alongside someone like GSW, who assume responsibility for the day-to-day running of the club as it tries to become more solvent and gradually addresses all the outstanding issues like the MSD loan (akin to ABC, parallel). Morris may have to take a hit, agreeing to hand over the club for nothing or defer any possible repayment (a set amount), should the club become more solvent. I think al-Hasawi came to a similar arrangement with the new Forest owner. Matters are further complicated as Morris retains ownership of the stadium. There are echoes of Peter Gadsby, I think, whose company built Pride Park and the outstanding mortgage repayments we had to pay him.

I'm not a financial expert, there are probably posters on this site who are financial professionals or run their own businesses. I'm just posting as a lay-person trying to proffer a solution.

Our situation perhaps illustrates why it isn't always good to come under the control of one individual though we've had the LoG & things fell apart there and having a number of owners can lead to in-fighting. So there is no ideal situation. Our biggest failing has been a lack of an overall strategy. Just as there are number of ways to play football (direct, physical to passing) so there are ways to run a club. I think I saw an article on the DET about the relative wealth of owners in our division and Brentford's Matthew Benham has a fortune of around £60m. 

Perhaps what we need in the short-term, is somebody who can manage the off-field finances & day to day running of the club as a going concern, assuming future liabilities and  to extricate us from the financial mess in which we find ourselves. It's probably similar to 2006, ,and then later how we were committed to using half of our PL revenue money to paying off outstanding debts (£50m+ in 2006). Our young players have regressed, but if we do find ourselves in the position of selling an asset for a good price, part of the fee goes to some to the playing budget and a significant chunk to repaying Mr Morris (servicing debt).

[desirelines]

We really need the complete package right now. We need ownership who are good at business AND establishing a footballing identity which will lead to progress on the pitch. Considering our financial plight, and the fact that those kind of owners are rare (and likely looking elsewhere), I struggle to see how any takeover of the club will lead to any short-term prosperity. It's gonna be a long, slow trudge before we see Derby resembling anything like a well-run football club. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by desirelines

[Anag Ram]

So, Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney were inspired by the Wrexham story and are investing in the hope of a major film deal. 

Surely we should be touting our story around Hollywood, though Americans may find it too far-fetched! 

 

[SamUltraRam]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

Hard to sell anything football related when there is a pandemic going on for any club - whilst our troubles are being enflamed by the national media other clubs must be in similar positions but any potential owner would think ( mistakenly) that they could sell 28-30,000 tickets to us lot.

there is a major football reset occurring this summer with so many players being released who will not get other jobs because the money simply will not be coming in and no club can guarantee selling players anymore as well as being unable to afford loan fees.

the parachute clubs will be be so far away from the rest this season it will be staggering 

Yes, I expect pretty much all EFL clubs are in for a shock season regarding ticket sales

There will always be the die hard fans who'd turn up to watch any game of football but there are also fans who :

1) Aren't die hard

2) Have got used to not attending and happy just watching it on TV

3) May have suffered financially during the pandemic & simply can't afford match tickets

4) Consider themselves vulnerable and will not feel comfortable attending

I'm fortunate & I'd still go just to watch paint dry, let's hope most fans are like me

 

[SamUltraRam]

Regarding Mel Morris, I wonder if he does have health problems whether he'd be prepared to still fund the club but take a step back and appoint a person/team to manage the off field business side ?

In the meantime, they could still search for a legitimate new owner

I'm clutching at straws but i'm desperate for some kind of resolution here

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said:

Regarding Mel Morris, I wonder if he does have health problems whether he'd be prepared to still fund the club but take a step back and appoint a person/team to manage the off field business side ?

In the meantime, they could still search for a legitimate new owner

I'm clutching at straws but i'm desperate for some kind of resolution here

Well unless he’s desperate then that’s the answer.