EFL appeal

[Topram]

Didn’t macc get relegated after the season had finished? 

[Comrade 86]

57 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

So let's get this right.... Every man and his dog has decided we deserve and are going to get a points deduction for next season because we didn't clarify enough the fact that for three years we used, and the EFL signed off on, an acceptable but different amortisation policy to the other clubs.....if so it's nothing more that a witch hunt. 

That's about the sum of it, yes. Look at how keen some of our own fans are to lap up every unsubstantiated word and then the fact that those unconnected with the club do too hardly seems such a stretch.

By the same token, if many DCFC Fans Forum regulars still can't discern what's what and this despite huge threads examining every detail of the FFP process and our charges, how surprising is it that fans with no such access, nor any inclination to seek it, would be so easily led?

I mean really, how many threads and conversations around amortisation need to take place before some posters stop prattling on about possible point deductions arising from the stadium sale?

Edited May 10, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands

[MrPlinkett]

What i continue to not understand is that the EFL agreed to all of our processes. When challenged they even said take it up with Derby.

Only when Gibson got mardy did they do anything. Surely if we are in receipt of a punishment, they should be too for lack of competence in advising and guiding their members.

 

[kevinhectoring]

29 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

I know MM has a fair few things on his plate right now, so no blame if the Club ignores this, but I would call this chap out without question.

The club’s PR team seem to have dealt with the recent turmoil in a pretty savvy way. I think they will ignore it. Hope so 

[Ellafella]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

That article was spot on. Plenty of home truths that some are not ready, or willing, to hear. 

So, why is the Club a “basket case”? @Nuwtfly

[Tamworthram]

19 minutes ago, Oldben said:

The points deduction could be upto 12 points.

Sheffield wednesday had 12 points deducted and on appealing that this was reduced to 6 points.

The point is yes a points deduction can be appealed, that could mean something similar to Sheffield wednesday in a 6 points deduction.

If its a points deduction its added to next season.

This all assumes Derby lose the appeal.

It assumes Derby are deducted 12 points.

All these things are unknown.

To many unknowns in derbys current fate.

Efl could choose to deny Derby county the chance to be taken over by alonso meaning the ownership situation rumbles on, perhaps to next season, meaning Derby don't have funds to build a better team.

 

Are you sure on the final point or are you guessing?

I get that they could prevent the takeover if they considered Alonso not fit and proper (which I would imagine they’d have to justify) but I can’t see how they could prevent it based on their appeal over our accounting policy.

Also, the charge/punishment they are appealing is different to Sheffield Wednesday’s isn’t it? In which case, can you really equate the punishment they received to what we might get.

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

So, why is the Club a “basket case”? @Nuwtfly

Completely depends on your definition of what a "basket case" club is, @Ellafella?

I think a club that has cycled through as many managers as we have under Mel, been involved in so many controversies that we see the Corner Flag Tweet more than we see wins, numerous financial issues such as payers not being paid on time and transfer embargo(s), battles with the EFL over and over again (and still going!), drink driving dramas, captains being sacked, games called off for "snow", nearly selling the club to one, two, three different shady buyers...how many reasons do you need? 

If I'm honest, calling us a basket case club is probably going pretty lightly. 

[Jubbs]

38 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Tom Gibbs, so-called senior sports reporter, describes Derby County as a “basket-case Club” in the above article.

The article itself isn't too bad, like Nuwtfly said, some home throughs in there.

But surely they'd do a bit of research too? "Home defeat to Rotherham and Chorley" firstly. it was away to Chorley. Secondly, he wasn't even managing the game...

[cool_as_custard]

The argument that the EFL expressly agreed to our accounting treatment/policy towards amortization is the crux of this. They did sign the accounts off but we have been found guilty of not spelling out explicitly enough how our policy actually worked.

If you think the EFL should be competent enough to understand the accounts or at least raise queries then this shouldn't go any further. If you agree that we could have been clearer then perhaps we get a punishment. 

Worst case the remedy is probably a fine. Either way, if someone manages to legally exploit your organisations rules and you don't like it, change the rules don't prosecute the person who was cleverer than you.

If points deductions are mooted then we have every right to appeal the appeal but the parameters of this one were very tight

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

That article was spot on. Plenty of home truths that some are not ready, or willing, to hear. 

Have to agree with @EllafellaI'm afraid. Whilst I agree that it's all been a rather sorry tale of woe this last few years, no so-called Senior Sports Reporter should be using terms like 'basket-case' to describe us. It lacks class and professionalism and it something I'd expect from the Star, not a supposedly respected broadsheet.

[kevinhectoring]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So what?

The appeal is to do with 'describing' our accounting practice - a practice was allowed and signed off by the EFL, and isn't something that comes with a points deduction even if guilty.

There’s a breach of accounting standards, possibly a breach of the EFL regs and the companies act, and the EFL most likely suspects the notes to the accounts were intentionally misleading. And you say ‘so what?’  
By the way, did the EFL really sign off on the amortisation policy (as you say)? Or did they sign off on the accounting treatment of the stadium sale? I thought it was the latter 

[Nuwtfly]

Just now, 86 Hair Islands said:

Have to agree with @EllafellaI'm afraid. Whilst I agree that it's all been a rather sorry tale of woe this last few years, no so-called Senior Sports Reporter should be using terms like 'basket-case' to describe us. It lacks class and professionalism and it something I'd expect from the Star, not a supposedly respected broadsheet.

Could I ask how you find the quality of Ryan Conway's articles then?

He uses a lot worse language than the term "basket case" on a regular basis and seems to be heralded as the best thing since sliced bread by many on here.

I have no problem with a journalist saying it as it is - be it positive or negative!

And I have to say, I think far, far too many in the media this season, from newspapers to The Athletic to local media, have given Wayne Rooney a way too easy a ride!

[EdinRam]

6 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Completely depends on your definition of what a "basket case" club is, @Ellafella?

I think a club that has cycled through as many managers as we have under Mel, been involved in so many controversies that we see the Corner Flag Tweet more than we see wins, numerous financial issues such as payers not being paid on time and transfer embargo(s), battles with the EFL over and over again (and still going!), drink driving dramas, captains being sacked, games called off for "snow", nearly selling the club to one, two, three different shady buyers...how many reasons do you need? 

If I'm honest, calling us a basket case club is probably going pretty lightly. 

I have tried getting over my points very similar to yours but you articulate a lot better than I do. The club is an absolute shambles and we will have to pay the piper eventually.

[Nuwtfly]

Just now, EdinRam said:

I have tried getting over my points very similar to yours but you articulate a lot better than I do. The club is an absolute shambles and we will have to pay the piper eventually.

You are absolutely right, @EdinRam - it is a shambles. It has been a shambles behind the scenes for a number of years, and that has played out fully on the pitch this season.

It's one of the main reasons why I, and many others on here, are hoping for a fresh start come the start of the next season.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Financial stuff seems pretty basket case, players not paid, not one but two shady takeovers not complete, loans taken out by Mel against assets....form an outside view it'd be pretty easy to say and not too wild.

The EFL stuff at the moment just appears to be everyone in the game deciding we're guilty and getting our dues (regardless the actual evidence and decision)

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, ShoreRam said:

You'd do yourself a great favour if you went and read the decision - It articulates the methodology for calculating the value of the ground. That methodology is not disputed rather the values (cost per seat if I recall correctly) that are input to the calculation. The club arrived at a total of £80m from that methodology, the EFL (from memory) £30+m using those calcs, 1967Rams came up wtih '5-10 million quid tops' using the fag packet method, the only calculator used was a casio to spell out 'boobies'.

You can also write 'Shell oil' - which means that we're back in shaky sheikh territory.

[EdinRam]

2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Financial stuff seems pretty basket case, players not paid, not one but two shady takeovers not complete, loans taken out by Mel against assets....form an outside view it'd be pretty easy to say and not too wild.

The EFL stuff at the moment just appears to be everyone in the game deciding we're guilty and getting our dues (regardless the actual evidence and decision)

Am I right in thinking whatever decision is brought is final?

[RadioactiveWaste]

5 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

There’s a breach of accounting standards, possibly a breach of the EFL regs and the companies act, and the EFL most likely suspects the notes to the accounts were intentionally misleading. And you say ‘so what?’  
By the way, did the EFL really sign off on the amortisation policy (as you say)? Or did they sign off on the accounting treatment of the stadium sale? I thought it was the latter 

Oh they signed off all our accounts at the time. Derby argued this at the first hearing but the panel dismissed it and said they were going to review the whole charge. Found in our favour on everything but the notes.

The stadium stuff is settled in our favour and not being appealed

I think a complete reversal of the finding is a bit unlikely but we'll probably have some punishment.

[Rev]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Completely depends on your definition of what a "basket case" club is, @Ellafella?

I think a club that has cycled through as many managers as we have under Mel, been involved in so many controversies that we see the Corner Flag Tweet more than we see wins, numerous financial issues such as payers not being paid on time and transfer embargo(s), battles with the EFL over and over again (and still going!), drink driving dramas, captains being sacked, games called off for "snow", nearly selling the club to one, two, three different shady buyers...how many reasons do you need? 

If I'm honest, calling us a basket case club is probably going pretty lightly. 

Add to that paying a players mother for scouting services.

Extending players contracts for another season, only to release them a month later.

Unfairly dismissing members of staff, launching a civil case against the ex CEO, relishing a day in court only to quietly settle later.

Telling fans the we were close enough to FFP limits that stadium food sales could make a difference, whilst knowing you've already cleared those hurdles by selling the stadium to the owner.

 

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, Rev said:

Add to that paying a players mother for scouting services.

Extending players contracts for another season, only to release them a month later.

Unfairly dismissing members of staff, launching a civil case against the ex CEO, relishing a day in court only to quietly settle later.

Telling fans the we were close enough to FFP limits that stadium food sales could make a difference, whilst knowing you've already cleared those hurdles by selling the stadium to the owner.

 

In the days post-Saturday, I find myself seeing more and more why Nick -  @therams69 - was urging us to pull our heads out of the sand.

Some are very firmly buried.