Christopher Hugh Martin Fan Club

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Are you suggesting it’s Martin’s fault we spent the majority of games passing the ball between Bird and Rooney on the halfway line?

There were lots of issues with the team’s toothlessness and they didn’t all directly correspond to Martin. It’s fair to say Martin offered us no pace up top but we didn’t have pace on the wings either.

Don’t think calling Jourdan silly is fair when you’ve got in a huff for suggesting our top goalscorer last season was an important  player ?

No, I'm not suggesting anything of the sort.

There were indeed many issues regarding out toothlessness, although that might be an indication of how 'important' a player Martin would be. Hands up who is ready to blame us not scoring in games next season on the absence of Martin, rather than any of the other issues.

I didn't call him silly and I'm not in a huff. 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Important in whose mind? The manager? Yours?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest a player who weighed in with 12 goals and 7 assists last season was important to us.

I am sure Cocu would feel more comfortable going into tomorrow’s game with both Martin and Marriott available, rather than just Marriott and a slew of untested and unproven youngsters.

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It's all getting a bit silly now. We looked pretty toothless with Martin in the team.

We did indeed. But this was typically against the stronger teams in the division. Our lack of quality in midfield and the wide positions also contributed to this.

Are you not concerned that now with our complete lack of options we might also look toothless against the more ordinary teams?

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

Can we afford a replacement? I don't know. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Rooney, Waghorn, Marriott and Hector-Ingram get the chance up top. Martin being here doesn't make us any less toothless IMO. 

How can losing a player who contributed to 19 goals last season not make a difference?

Waghorn is the only player we can rely on in that position and he is currently injured.

For me, losing Martin is not the most frustrating issue. It’s the evident lack of strategic planning at the club. 

I think even the most ardent of Martin fans would have moved on from his departure by now if there was evidence that the decision was part of a bigger picture and some effective forward planning.

The fact that we are going into the season with one fit senior player in Martin’s position  means that inevitably people are going to dwell on the decision not to extend Martin’s contract.

If 3 months from now Marriott and Waghorn are firing in the goals, who will care? But right now it’s an understandable concern that we look even weaker in attacking positions than before.

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

If we could afford to move heaven and earth to give Rooney an 18 month deal, it seems disappointing to me we couldn’t secure a new contract for a genuinely important player in Martin.

What worries me more is that we obviously allowed ourselves to walk away from negotiations without having a replacement for Martin lined up.

How foolish does that look now?

With Lawrence and Waghorn out and question marks remaining over Marriott, our attacking options look desperately thin.

Considering some fans actually expect us to kick on and aim for the top six, it is frustrating to see us effectively strengthen a direct rival.

Your not taking into account all factors , Rooney is a better player by miles , his wages are subsidised, he raises the profile of the club , raises tv appearance, raises crowds , raises sponsorship , shirt sales , effect on youngsters, the list goes on so not a comparable example

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

That’s all fine, but where is the forward planning from the club?

It’s OK to let Martin go and I think most people would easily come to terms with it if there was some semblance of preparedness from the club.

As it is, people will question the wisdom of that decision when we have left ourselves in a position where there is no sign of his replacement, we look toothless up front,  and the league campaign is days away from beginning.

So do the club just give Martin whatever he wants?

[Andicis]

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It's all getting a bit silly now. We looked pretty toothless with Martin in the team.

Which is not a reflection on Martin, our slow laborious playstyle and lack of creativity is to blame in that regard. Martin was by far our most clinical striker. Which of our good wins last season came without Chrissy? I think what's silly is people clamouring to get rid of our top goal scorer when we don't have a replacement, and we're left with 2 worse strikers. 

[nottingram]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

If we could afford to move heaven and earth to give Rooney an 18 month deal, it seems disappointing to me we couldn’t secure a new contract for a genuinely important player in Martin.

What worries me more is that we obviously allowed ourselves to walk away from negotiations without having a replacement for Martin lined up.

How foolish does that look now?

With Lawrence and Waghorn out and question marks remaining over Marriott, our attacking options look desperately thin.

Considering some fans actually expect us to kick on and aim for the top six, it is frustrating to see us effectively strengthen a direct rival.

Wonder if the circumstances between now and 12 months ago when we signed Rooney are a bit different? Anything happened in that time? I’m scratching my head but can’t for the life of me think of anything

[Ambitious]

19 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

How can losing a player who contributed to 19 goals last season not make a difference?

Waghorn is the only player we can rely on in that position and he is currently injured.

For me, losing Martin is not the most frustrating issue. It’s the evident lack of strategic planning at the club. 

I think even the most ardent of Martin fans would have moved on from his departure by now if there was evidence that the decision was part of a bigger picture and some effective forward planning.

The fact that we are going into the season with one fit senior player in Martin’s position  means that inevitably people are going to dwell on the decision not to extend Martin’s contract.

If 3 months from now Marriott and Waghorn are firing in the goals, who will care? But right now it’s an understandable concern that we look even weaker in attacking positions than before.

As a club we've learnt to adapt to losing our top goalscorer from the season before, perhaps even multiple contributors as we did last season in Mount and Wilson, not to mention Marriott struggling to get anywhere close to his previous tally. We were only 7 goals off where we were and we finished the second half of the season as one of the top goalscorers. 

Can Hector-Ingram score 12 goals in the Championship, probably, I don't know. The thing we miss the most with Martin isn't his goals, but his creative play in the final third. We could do with two wingers with ability - I'm not in the slightest bothered about our centre forward position personally. The game moves to quick and I saw nothing to suggest Martin would be guaranteed 20 goals this coming season - far from it - so spending another couple of million on his wages over the next couple of years just strikes me as kicking the can down the road. I could be wrong and Martin may well be the top goalscorer this coming season, but I wouldn't put my money on it. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

15 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

I wonder what people were thinking when Clough signed him on loan in the 12/13 season, what was it 15 games 2 goals, and an absolutely awful haircut. Clough was playing him on the left hand side ??‍♂️

Who would’ve called it then that he’d go on to be the best striker we’ve had in 20 years!   I also agree with Leicester Ram in the type of players we have in the team and particularly the lack of pace in the team means he’s no longer the best option. Clearly we’ve offered him what we felt we could and he’s found a better deal elsewhere and in going to Bristol he’s going to a club at the same level. Fair play to him and hope it works out.  I’m not going to criticise Derby either - we’ve got to do what is best for the club, and they feel they can’t accommodate him for anything more than what we offered.

It is a sad day and it is very much the end of an era, with only Fozzy left now from that McClaren team. However players come and go - I wanted to watch Eranio Baiano Stimac Wanchope Poom and Sturridge forever. It can’t happen unfortunately.

However I’m looking forward to the new era under Cocu, with Bird Bogle Lowe Knight Sibley Holmes Lawrence and Marriott - with hopefully a polish wing wizard to follow. Who is to say this era won’t eclipse the clough/mcclaren team and get over the line?

But all the best Chrissy. You will always be a Rams legend and eclipse most of the strikers we’ve had in my lifetime for the impact you’ve had on the club, probably only behind likes of Davison, Saunders, Goddard, Sturridge, Baiano, Wanchope but ahead of Gabbiadini Johnson Kitson Strupar (only due to injury) Christie, Rasiak, Howard - that ain’t bad!!

Good post, although Wisdom was also part of that McClaren team.

[Mostyn6]

One question, Who has ever seen Hector Ingram play professional competitive football? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

16 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Which is not a reflection on Martin, our slow laborious playstyle and lack of creativity is to blame in that regard. Martin was by far our most clinical striker. Which of our good wins last season came without Chrissy? I think what's silly is people clamouring to get rid of our top goal scorer when we don't have a replacement, and we're left with 2 worse strikers. 

Indeed it is not a reflection on Martin. Just an observation that predicting that we'll be toothless next season because of the absence of Martin is not would not really be that much of a change.

Not sure how you define 'good' wins (as opposed to bad wins?). How many of our defeats occurred without Martin? It's just as valid a question.

Not sure understanding why the club didn't over him more on a longer contract equals 'clamouring to get rid' of him.

How many goals did Waghorn score last season?

[Jourdan]

32 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Wonder if the circumstances between now and 12 months ago when we signed Rooney are a bit different? Anything happened in that time? I’m scratching my head but can’t for the life of me think of anything

Our financial position was terrible then and it’s terrible now.

If Martin’s contract extension was a luxury we couldn’t afford, then we have to view Rooney’s deal in the same way.

If the finances are as bad as suggested, we should be looking for a way out of that Rooney deal and cut our cloth accordingly. But we are not.

Personally I’d give up watching Rooney every week if it meant we had the financial flexibility to bring in or keep the players we actually need.

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Indeed it is not a reflection on Martin. Just an observation that predicting that we'll be toothless next season because of the absence of Martin is not would not really be that much of a change.

Not sure how you define 'good' wins (as opposed to bad wins?). How many of our defeats occurred without Martin? It's just as valid a question.

Not sure understanding why the club didn't over him more on a longer contract equals 'clamouring to get rid' of him.

How many goals did Waghorn score last season?

Scraping a 1-0 vs Wigan with a Shinnie ranger in injury time is a win, but it's a bad win. The good wins were the ones in which we looked comfortable and dominant, such as Sheffield Wednesday away. It's subjective for sure, but there is definitely a distinction.

The clamouring comment was less aimed at you, and more at other posters tbf. 

11, same as Martin, though pretty sure there were more penalties in there. Goals to minutes ratio is pretty clear cut though.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

6 hours ago, Archied said:

I have respect for Martin and his time with us kash , he had just become a bit of an albatross around the neck of the club and any manager we had ,it’s actually a bit of a shame the timing of cocu and Martin reaching the last ish contract stage as I believe cocu would have been able to use him the right way re style and playing time whilst keeping the matinites relatively on board but that’s football,Derby had a view on his role and worth ,Martin wanted better ,no hard feelings and wish him well, it’s just the unbalanced view of him by some I struggle with especially when it means putting down other players at he club

As I said tho,I don't know why you keep dropping into threads dedicated to him,just to argue with die hard fans.

Just seems pointless mate...

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

As I said tho,I don't know why you keep dropping into threads dedicated to him,just to argue with die hard fans.

Just seems pointless mate...

Believe it or not, this is not a thread dedicated to Chris Martin.

[nottingram]

15 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Our financial position was terrible then and it’s terrible now.

If Martin’s contract extension was a luxury we couldn’t afford, then we have to view Rooney’s deal in the same way.

If the finances are as bad as suggested, we should be looking for a way out of that Rooney deal and cut our cloth accordingly. But we are not.

Personally I’d give up watching Rooney every week if it meant we had the financial flexibility to bring in or keep the players we actually need.

Think there’s been a global pandemic in the meantime that has drastically affected revenue streams everywhere, which potentially affects our ability to give out new contracts. 

We might have been able to afford Martins contract but we might not have been willing to give him a THREE YEAR DEAL given that in a years time we might have a new manager that doesn’t rate him, although fingers crossed that wouldn’t be the case. 

It might be that if Mel had foreseen this pandemic he mightn’t have committed to Rooney but ultimately no one knows the answer to that and no one saw this coming.

If only it was as simple as ripping contracts up. Unfortunately it quite clearly isn’t that easy. It might well be that the sponsorship income Rooney brings in is absolutely key currently, and Rooney is more important to the team than Martin is, in my opinion. 

I don’t understand why people can’t grasp that he wasn’t let go. He was offered a contract the club felt was fair. For far too long we have been held to ransom by players so I don’t understand why it is such a bad thing that we aren’t willing to bend over backwards anymore.

He has been and is a good player but goodness me, he is not Derby County Football Club. 

[AutoWindscreens]

4 hours ago, Srg said:

There-in lies several massive assumptions.

Did he even want to stay? Did we want to give him the 2+1 year deal he got? Does Cocu see him as a "genuinely important player"? How much is he getting paid now?

All of which, the answer lies whether you're in the Martin Man Love Club, or not.

And the assumption that we don't have good ideas about who could replace him.

[AutoWindscreens]

6 hours ago, David said:

 

I will never leave you Angie ☺️

Ruined by that loo roll perched on the top corner of the radiator.

[Anon]

20 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

I feel sick that he has joined Bristol City.

As a Bristol man this is like your wife leaving you for your mortal enemy.

On the plus side I might run into him!

If you do he'll go down like a sack of spuds.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Believe it or not, this is not a thread dedicated to Chris Martin.

 

[Archied]

5 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

As I said tho,I don't know why you keep dropping into threads dedicated to him,just to argue with die hard fans.

Just seems pointless mate...

Not just die hard s though there are differing opinions and it’s good to put different points of view , early days with the Martin stuff it was your posts that made me realise I was a bit unbalanced with my posts regards him and not giving him the credit he deserved  by being more wrapped up in the posts that were far to critical of other players and the club , 

we could debate the Martin subject till the cows come home ,I think some are wrong about him ( over the top) and they think I’m wrong but I don’t see that as a problem it’s the back and forth of Derby fans debating Derby and our players?