Max Lowe Racial Stereotyping

[europia]

6 hours ago, OohMartWright said:

Ramage made a statement that was clearly wrong.

He has apologised for it, twice in fact.

He has been sacked from a job he obviously loved and will now be left to think long and hard about what he said and why he should not have done so.

That should be the end of the matter.

That this thread is now being used by some to "stick the knife in" and by others to demonstrate their overwhelming virtue is both tedious and regrettable.

Yes well put.

I've thought for a while, that at some point Ramage would go too far and upset someone at RD or DCFC. It's kind of been building up. Craig Ramage isn't everyones cup of tea and was prone to on air gaffe's, but he is a passionate Derby supporter and wasn't afraid of speaking his mind. I guess that was the reason he was the regular pundit, he stirred up a bit of controversy, and radio stations need listeners. Anyhow he was never going to survive this, and he will be kicking himself for the bizarre and unacceptable comment that he made. 

Regarding posters who have suggested that Dawes and Chris Coles should be sacked. Well, that sounds a bit harsh. As far as I am aware, neither were complicit in the regrettable event. 

[ariotofmyown]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So which papers do you read and which news channels?

Surprised with your whataboutery.* I expected a genuine defence of why you use the Sun.**

*I'm not

**I didn't

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said:

Surprised with your whataboutery.* I expected a genuine defence of why you use the Sun.**

*I'm not

**I didn't

Defence of The Sun? I get it to read the football and horse racing, I have no interest in the news.

Surprised that you havent answered my question, must be news outlets that report very little that use?

[ramsbottom]

5 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

I do wonder how many of the people giving it the "I don't condone what he said, but something something not racist" are really just dealing with their own sub-conscious and realising that it could quite easily be something they'd say themselves in the company of friends? Not like they owe anything to Ramage in defending him..

edit: see above

 

Not sure if that’s saying I’m a closet racist or not ?

[Steve How Hard?]

9 hours ago, bigbadbob said:

Mods working like beavers tonight

[IlsonDerby]

15 hours ago, Jayram said:

Do you really think armed police 'hold people at gunpoint' on their way home from a night out because they are Asian? That is absolute BS; either your mates are lying or they are the wrong sort of people to be hanging around with. Take it from someone who knows - no armed response officer is going to draw their weapon without there being a genuine threat to the lives of either themselves or the public. 

Don’t talk about things you know nothing off. He’s a maths teacher so hardly ‘wrong sort of bloke to be knocking around with’ and he has no reason to lie about it. Stop protecting this country’s reputation at all costs man it’s embarrassing. 
 

we get a lot right over here but also a lot wrong. 

[IlsonDerby]

12 hours ago, Archied said:

ALL media coverage ???? ALL the public?? ,,,, no mate there’s been lots of positive stuff re sterling on media and massive support of him from the public regards the idiot at Chelsea ,, the majority have stood up and supported him and fully supported his stance ,,,

so yes I see your generalisation of media and public( normal people) as the exact same blinkered ignorant behaviour as bigots and racists ,the problem is you think your a crusading hero fighting a cause and that makes you blind to  your own behaviour, views and words 

Someone suggesting the media were woeful towards Sterling = someone saying something racist. 
 

Yeah - read that again, that’s what you’ve just said... and I’m blind to my own behaviour ?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Do the mods get paid overtime when something like this happens?

[Woodley Ram]

14 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think you've said what I have been saying in this thread and I've mainly been responded to with abuse! 

Even had one poster send me a private expletive laden message!

A private message, that’s bad if they cannot say it on an open forum then they shouldn’t say it and if it’s discriminatory then they should go elsewhere.  You don’t deserve that or a yo for that matter 

[Ghost of Clough]

8 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Do the mods get paid overtime when something like this happens?

It's the advertising money from extra views.

Here's live footage from @David's bedroom:

[Woodley Ram]

16 hours ago, Jayram said:

Do you really think armed police 'hold people at gunpoint' on their way home from a night out because they are Asian? That is absolute BS; either your mates are lying or they are the wrong sort of people to be hanging around with. Take it from someone who knows - no armed response officer is going to draw their weapon without there being a genuine threat to the lives of either themselves or the public. 

I agree with you here, pulling a gun is a last resort and only when there is a potential threat to life. 
 

if this happened then it is more likely to have been a taser and even then there would have to be a reason. 

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

A private message, that’s bad if they cannot say it on an open forum then they shouldn’t say it and if it’s discriminatory then they should go elsewhere.  You don’t deserve that or a yo for that matter 

Water of a ducks back!

Actually found it quite funny that they thought they were being really abusive but the forum filter still appears to work on private messages!

Dont think their aggressive content was truly conveyed by calling me a ducking racist Bamford ?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, IlsonDerby said:

Don’t talk about things you know nothing off. He’s a maths teacher so hardly ‘wrong sort of bloke to be knocking around with’ and he has no reason to lie about it. Stop protecting this country’s reputation at all costs man it’s embarrassing. 
 

we get a lot right over here but also a lot wrong. 

So your mate was just walking home doing nothing and the police pulled a gun on him just because he was Asian?

Sorry but I'm going to have to join the camp that believes that bits of the story are missing here.

Just wouldnt happen.

[ramsbottom]

15 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think you've said what I have been saying in this thread and I've mainly been responded to with abuse! 

Even had one poster send me a private expletive laden message!

We've had some back & forths for sure, but you shouldn't have to put up with that...

[Key clubber]

13 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

Here's a little hypothetical "Spot the difference" competition for you... no clues...

 

1/  "My new neighbours, who happen to be Indian, are not very amiable"

2/  "My new neighbours, who happen to be Indian, are not very amiable, but then you could say that about all Indians"

 

Answers on page 136

Can any of them play fullback ?

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Key clubber said:

Can any of them play fullback ?

From what little I've seen of them, maybe the grandmother, but certainly none of the others!

[Archied]

4 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Someone suggesting the media were woeful towards Sterling = someone saying something racist. 
 

Yeah - read that again, that’s what you’ve just said... and I’m blind to my own behaviour ?

No just shout your views then tell everyone END OF 

still won’t hide the FACT that you generalise ALL media and ALL public ,, do you not understand somehow that that is the basis and underpinning principle of bigotry and racism?   Really?

forget it , it will be lost on you ?

[HorsforthRam]

It’s a shame that Radio Derby haven’t used this incident to actually educate. What CR said is racist. For those that think “it was just a slip of the tongue; there’s no way he’s racist; you can’t say anything nowadays” etc.. maybe they should spend some time to actually study why people throw around racial stereotypes and why the black players at Derby are hurt by the comment made. 

[Dethorn]

This entire thread saddens me.

Is it sad that Craig Ramage has said what he has said  ? Yes

Is it sad that he has lost his job ? Yes

Is it sad that some Derby Players have been offended by what he has said ? Yes

Is it sad that you cannot call someone big, short, fat, old, young, black ..........  the list goes on and on; even if it is with nothing more than descriptive intent ? Yes

Is it sad that Max Lowe feels he has to get involved with this ? Yes

Is it sad that Max's feels he has to speak out for the young black footballers at Derby ? Yes

Is it sad that noone is speaking out for the young footballers who are not black ?  Yes ( I think Max Bird was criticised too)

A lot of the replies on here sadden me,

 

But things in general (apart from but related too this thread) are saddening me.

This happened to me today

I needed to speak to "Sarah" (name changed in case any offence would be caused) in the next office at work. I was unsure as to who "Sarah" was - so I asked  "Is she the tiny one?" I was thinking of the girl/woman/female (sorry genuinely unsure which to use there) who is about 4'10" and not over or under weight in my opinion. The look I got was one that could kill - I said "I am sorry - was that offensive? It was not meant to be - I am just trying to work out who you mean"  The response I got was "probably not but it should be!"  IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE I WAS BEING DESCRIPTIVE !!

This happened a couple of years ago

I needed to reprimand someone who reported to me for not producing the quantity of work that they should have been. This is after three attempts to see if there is anything that can be done to help. I explained that he/she were not keeping up and that we knew full well that the task we were asking to be completed was definitely not more than one person could achieve in normal working hours. Within 20 minutes I had a complaint lodged against me for bullying, It did not take long for it to be completely quashed, as I had made notes luckily.

Positive discrimination saddens me - just get the best people in to do the job, do not patronise someone from a minority because it ticks a box.

Things going too far and not being equal sadden me; for example

Alex Scott is frequently on MOTD or general Men's Football programmes because it has to be seen that there is at least one female on the panel. I can live with this, I even understand it a little but because of my fews on positive discrimination above I do not totally agree with it.  I flicked on a women's football match the other day and it was being presented by Gabby Logan (Who I think is possibly the best sports presenter on TV) with 3 more females on the panel and no men. Now is that fair ?

 

Not related to this thread but to football more generally

Feigning injury, diving, trying to con the ref, VAR, VAR, VAR,

I am watching more and more Rugby and less and less Football,

Luckily I am in the second half of my life and I am already looking forward to going to watch a Brian Clough team again !!

Sorry for ranting, it was either that or quit the forum and generally I enjoy this forum.

 

 

[Tamworthram]

13 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

This entire thread saddens me.

Is it sad that Craig Ramage has said what he has said  ? Yes

Is it sad that he has lost his job ? Yes

Is it sad that some Derby Players have been offended by what he has said ? Yes

Is it sad that you cannot call someone big, short, fat, old, young, black ..........  the list goes on and on; even if it is with nothing more than descriptive intent ? Yes

Is it sad that Max Lowe feels he has to get involved with this ? Yes

Is it sad that Max's feels he has to speak out for the young black footballers at Derby ? Yes

Is it sad that noone is speaking out for the young footballers who are not black ?  Yes ( I think Max Bird was criticised too)

A lot of the replies on here sadden me,

 

But things in general (apart from but related too this thread) are saddening me.

This happened to me today

I needed to speak to "Sarah" (name changed in case any offence would be caused) in the next office at work. I was unsure as to who "Sarah" was - so I asked  "Is she the tiny one?" I was thinking of the girl/woman/female (sorry genuinely unsure which to use there) who is about 4'10" and not over or under weight in my opinion. The look I got was one that could kill - I said "I am sorry - was that offensive? It was not meant to be - I am just trying to work out who you mean"  The response I got was "probably not but it should be!"  IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE I WAS BEING DESCRIPTIVE !!

This happened a couple of years ago

I needed to reprimand someone who reported to me for not producing the quantity of work that they should have been. This is after three attempts to see if there is anything that can be done to help. I explained that he/she were not keeping up and that we knew full well that the task we were asking to be completed was definitely not more than one person could achieve in normal working hours. Within 20 minutes I had a complaint lodged against me for bullying, It did not take long for it to be completely quashed, as I had made notes luckily.

Positive discrimination saddens me - just get the best people in to do the job, do not patronise someone from a minority because it ticks a box.

Things going too far and not being equal sadden me; for example

Alex Scott is frequently on MOTD or general Men's Football programmes because it has to be seen that there is at least one female on the panel. I can live with this, I even understand it a little but because of my fews on positive discrimination above I do not totally agree with it.  I flicked on a women's football match the other day and it was being presented by Gabby Logan (Who I think is possibly the best sports presenter on TV) with 3 more females on the panel and no men. Now is that fair ?

 

Not related to this thread but to football more generally

Feigning injury, diving, trying to con the ref, VAR, VAR, VAR,

I am watching more and more Rugby and less and less Football,

Luckily I am in the second half of my life and I am already looking forward to going to watch a Brian Clough team again !!

Sorry for ranting, it was either that or quit the forum and generally I enjoy this forum.

 

 

Generally a good post except for the two in bold.

1) The issue isn't that he used the colour of a players skin to describe or refer to him (although that would have been similarly unsuitable as it would be unnecessary. Unlike the example you have used, we all know the players, he wouldn't need to describe them). The issue is that he appears to have used inappropriate stereotyping. 

2) Why would anybody need to speak out for the young players that are not black? He didn't say "all young white players have an attitude problem" or something similar. It's not the criticism of players where the issue lies but the fact that he implied the problem related to the colour of their skin.