Comrade 86 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bigfella said: Sad that a serious subject has degenerated into a fight between the usual protagonists. 3 minutes ago, LazloW said: I know certain people are having a lot of ‘fun’ on this thread, but I wonder if it is time for the mods to draw a line under it and/or move it to the politics thread? It seems like it has gone well beyond the original discussion about what a Radio Derby presenter said about Derby players, into something far wider. Considering the subject matter, this isn’t surprising, but it’s gone a long way past football (where I for one keep my focus on this forum). Just a thought. Apologies gents. Emotive subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 16 hours ago, TommyPowell said: Therefore if Ramage had said all/most young players need taking down a peg or two it would have been ok Disagree but cause it isn't true at all. It is ageist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raich Carter Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said: Hopkins seems to regularly cross the line between free speech and inciting hatred. Until 20 years ago, Free Speech meant you could say any old rubbish to your small group of mates down the pub. If you could find lots of people interested in your extreme views, you might be able to get a book printed or a column in the paper, but this output was regulated as to not incite hatred or violence (although Mein Kampf still got released...3 cheers for free speech). The internet has now made it possible to reach anyone in the world. Some gun nut in the USA can read Hopkins and be inspired to go and shoot up a mosque. Or a wannabe terrorist in Saudi can read what she says and decide to slit a westerners throat in revenge. Or how many people will have read a few lines about Cummings weirdo been forced to resign and decide he was a victim for raising the scientific "fact" that white people are more intelligent than black. Allowing people to spread lies, hate and mis-information is not free speech. I agree that the internet has had a massive impact on extremists visibility/voice and totally agree that it's potentially (perhaps even likely!) damaging but I think it is what it is. It's not Twitter that's the cesspit, it's the people who spout off on it that are the problem - i.e. it's society, not technology. With regard to free speech and inciting hatred - what about the extremist religious groups? They fight for their right to air their views, their campaigns, etc and they don't think they're evil. They have their beliefs and who are we to tell them that they're wrong? What some may consider to be evil or wrong to them is their core belief and they fight (in every way) for their rights. Some people see the West as their enemy (let's face it, we probably have done some pretty vile things over the years) so for them, their hate is quite correct. Perspectives... I'm not a lefty but I do think it's a really difficult area - if we start editing what people can say, regardless of how stupid/hurtful/damaging then when do we stop and who gets to decide what is evil? I strongly believe governments across the world would love it if free speech was banned but where would that lead us...? North Korea, China, etc who we largely lambast for such measures have tried. Mein Kampf is long and dull. And stupid. But it was right for it to be published as it showed what a complete Bamford he was. As if we needed further proof... Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you - I'm a relatively sane individual and reading some of the stuff that gets published now is pretty terrifying but I do think we need to spin it on it's head a bit to see the other side's view. Even if we disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Sorry who do I discriminate against? Lol. I was wrong clearly you are not able to discriminate well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Lol. I was wrong clearly you are not able to discriminate well. Can you please link me to the posts where I have discriminated against anyone and I will make an apology on the forum. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: Can you please link me to the posts where I have discriminated against anyone and I will make an apology on the forum. Thank you. Look up the meaning of 'to discriminate'(verb 1.recognize a distinction; differentiate.). The point I made, that you seem unable to see, was that in the case of the stuff spouted by Hopkins that not everyone could discriminate as well as you. Unfortunately you have just made that point too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 This is all very tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Hopkins seems to regularly cross the line between free speech and inciting hatred. Until 20 years ago, Free Speech meant you could say any old rubbish to your small group of mates down the pub. If you could find lots of people interested in your extreme views, you might be able to get a book printed or a column in the paper, but this output was regulated as to not incite hatred or violence (although Mein Kampf still got released...3 cheers for free speech). The internet has now made it possible to reach anyone in the world. Some gun nut in the USA can read Hopkins and be inspired to go and shoot up a mosque. Or a wannabe terrorist in Saudi can read what she says and decide to slit a westerners throat in revenge. Or how many people will have read a few lines about Cummings weirdo been forced to resign and decide he was a victim for raising the scientific "fact" that white people are more intelligent than black. Allowing people to spread lies, hate and mis-information is not free speech. Inciting hatred is a crime isnt it and should be investigated by the police? That is unless she hasnt incited hatred and you've just perceived that yourself? Not really sure how you can judge that someone has incited hatred unless it is you that has been incited? Can you give any examples of other people that have incited hatred and led to you speaking out against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Look up the meaning of 'to discriminate'(verb 1.recognize a distinction; differentiate.). The point I made, that you seem unable to see, was that in the case of the stuff spouted by Hopkins that not everyone could discriminate as well as you. Unfortunately you have just made that point too well. I may be able to see it if your post made any sense...have another go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robster1 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Whatever you think of Ramage as a football pundit his heart is Derby through and through. We all know that he sometimes says the wrong thing at the wrong time, that is one of his endearing qualities, but having listened to him over the years I would never consider him to be racist. I ran his comments past my (black) wife to get here view. She agreed with me - you can't ( and shouldn't) say what he said, but if you took the word black out of his comments then everything else he said was correct. I feel that he should have been given the chance to apologise, in public and directly to the players effected, but he should not have lost his job and been cast as a racist for ever. I hope his radio Derby colleagues support him now and in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 No. He deserved everything he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, robster1 said: Whatever you think of Ramage as a football pundit his heart is Derby through and through. We all know that he sometimes says the wrong thing at the wrong time, that is one of his endearing qualities, but having listened to him over the years I would never consider him to be racist. I ran his comments past my (black) wife to get here view. She agreed with me - you can't ( and shouldn't) say what he said, but if you took the word black out of his comments then everything else he said was correct. I feel that he should have been given the chance to apologise, in public and directly to the players effected, but he should not have lost his job and been cast as a racist for ever. I hope his radio Derby colleagues support him now and in the future. Given all this is about racial stereotyping then it's stating the obvious that if he hadn't said "black" non of this would have happened. Also, do we really need another thread on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 "if you took the word black out of his comments..." sums up the vast majority of racist commentary. He was, rightfully, called out on it by Derby County players and staff; and then the BBC made the decision to stop working with him. The disciplinary decision is nothing to do with Derby County football club and while I recognise he was on the commentary team for the BBC covering Derby games we should avoid continuous discussions at length on the Derby County section of the forum regarding the nature of his disciplinary action. That same discussion saw the actual thread regarding the topic descend into politics thread 2.0 back and forth yesterday (which is why it was locked). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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