Gee SCREAMER !! Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: You mentioned prosecco..........you should be ashamed. Sure some posters on here will remember when clubs(when Derby had some) like the Pink Coconut and Molly Magoos would send those birthday vouchers out for you and five friends with a free bottle of champagne on arrival. Well we all knew it was far from champagne and was actually White Lightning in a green bottle. That was Prosecco the only time I drank some . Grim stuff. Couldn't place the acrid flavour at first, Then my brain started bringing out 'Two can play that game' and 'show me love ' in an effort to clear my confusion and place it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 12 hours ago, TramRam said: I have to admit i'm with Dethorn on this, People today are very easily offended, The use of a faux pas as a reason to fight back, Maybe it's an age thing, I'm well into my 2nd half of life, Social media and the thought police have a vice like grip on life where the many can be offended, Where in days gone by a phttt would surfice or some good old fashioned Anglo Saxon language would be enough for the instigator to move along. I remember being de bagged at 16 years old at work, Today it would be sexual assault, Getting a quik feel from the girls at school at 14-15 years old again sexual assault, Being thumped, Slippered, Caned by the headmaster at school physical assault, Getting a back hander from the local OB for being cheeky...he would be sacked today, Scrumping and being chased by the owner and caught and thumped...a trip to the Police station and maybe a court case today...Plus many many more instances from yesteryear. We dont live in Orwellian times as of yet, We're on that slippery slope but not at the end yet, There will be tons of quotes, Quips, Misspokes, Faux Pas's that will be taken to the limit by those who may not have been brought up in the 60s 70s and find it their duty to report...all because they're offended, Or they will report because it may enhance their job description or just that they like to be the one who hopes to become the savior. As for Dethorns comments on football he's right imo, Todays game is going down the pan for lack of honesty and chicanery and where cheats do prosper. Don’t you remember Fab Franny Lee and others diving ? Some of Franny’s diving efforts were laughable but still sometimes given. The cheating was still there in the60’s , 70’s and 80’s. Did you not watch Leeds , Liverpool etc all it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said: Don’t you remember Fab Franny Lee and others diving ? Some of Franny’s diving efforts were laughable but still sometimes given. The cheating was still there in the60’s , 70’s and 80’s. Did you not watch Leeds , Liverpool etc all it Watching since 1966, Yes Lee was a diver, The incident with Hunter was from a dive and a penalty awarded, Which simmered until the pot lid blew off, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm getting at, The slightest touch and an ambulance is called, The time wasting, The theatrics to con the Ref in getting another player a red or yellow card, Yes they were there then...but it was honest cheating ? Uruguay and Chile were the definition of brutality back in the day, Italy were more cunning, Dirty Leeds brought a style of intimidation with talent something I admirered but hated. Where in the days of thuggery it was the "norm" and was accepted ? today it's the "norm" also, The game has changed today, Faster, More tactics involved, Bigger squads, Less atmosphere, Seating, VAR ?, I'm falling out of love with "the beautifull game". Off to work in a mo, I taped Jimmy Greaves from BT sport last night...looking forward to seeing crap pitches, Packed grounds, Players fighting, Fans going hell for leather at one another. It's a strange one for me, I have both BT and Sky, I watch as much football as I can on the box, I get involved in all the controversy during and after the game, Nothing I can do about the game today. Yep it's an age thing alright, I loved the 70s-80s, They were mad decades. All the best from a curmudgeonly old timer ☺️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Anag Ram said: I agree of course that the very serious incidents of the past of which you speak must be avoided at all costs. I think where TramRam might be heading is that we have a culture which loves to punish. No one gets a second chance. Education takes second place to the mob baying for blood. There are some instances where ignorance is mistaken for malignancy. I think in these cases we should help the perpetrators to understand why what they have said or done is wrong lest punishment serves only to harden their prejudices or behaviours. I think that is a superb eloquent succinct post, that superbly describes a lot of my feelings too. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desirelines Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 13 hours ago, Anag Ram said: think where TramRam might be heading is that we have a culture which loves to punish. No one gets a second chance. Education takes second place to the mob baying for blood. Have you read SO YOU’VE BEEN PUBLICLY SHAMED by Jon Ronson? A look at some examples of people making very public mistakes (of varying degrees of seriousness) and how they were subsequently treated by an online and offline public. Shame is a very powerful emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, desirelines said: Have you read SO YOU’VE BEEN PUBLICLY SHAMED by Jon Ronson? A look at some examples of people making very public mistakes (of varying degrees of seriousness) and how they were subsequently treated by an online and offline public. Shame is a very powerful emotion. A good book. Terrifying thing is that it's 5 years old now - things have got exponentially worse as more and more people come online The only hope is that we'll reach a point where the shaming of a mistake becomes so routine that people start to lose interest and the furore passes within a matter of days/hours The danger is that if we never let anyone apologise and move on, then what is the point of them even apologising? They might as well just double-down and carry on being as bigoted as they like. As long as none of them ever hold public office, we'll be fine....oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksRam Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Lurked on this thread for nearly 40 pages without commenting. Why? Because in today's society almost anything you say on race, religion, sex, disability or any number of things can be miss-construed or judged. We all have views and opinions based on our own race, colour, creed, upbringing, age or social class It's a precipice. I hadn't commented as I was worried about being judged. How mad is that really? Was CR right in saying what he did? No. Was he being consciously racist? IMO no. What he said however, WAS wrong as it created an unconscious bias and race stereotype. I was accused of being a racist 2 years ago at a Twickenham RFU bar by a black girl, just for challenging the cost of drinks on the basis of "are you saying black people can't add up". Utter madness (we were overcharged but she refused to apologise). My mate had a similar experience politely asking a woman to turn her phone off speaker in Nandos as it was full volume for ages and was affecting his family's meal time. The manager was scared to ask! She accused him of being a racist. Another school teacher mate is currently suspended undergoing safeguarding checks because he's twice had crying students in his office asking for support but had his door unknowingly closed. A female teacher has done similar but nothing's been said about that. He's now borderline depression as a result with the view that regardless he will give up the job he loves because of how he's been viewed. He feels he's being badged a groomer / paedophile. Where am I going with this? No idea really. Racism, sexism and most other -isms are a real thing and are very serious but there is still a long way to go yet to get rid of the huge grey area between society's perceptions of an innocent situation (my 3 examples), ignorance through something innocently said or done which does rightly cause offence (where CR falls into I think) and genuine racist or sexist comments aka monkey chants etc. which need to be dealt with as strongly as possible. Sorry for the long piece. Said my bit now. Let's just focus on the football, getting behind our great club and team regardless of their colour, nationality or sexual orientation. They pull on that shirt, they're a Ram, that's all there is to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 40 minutes ago, BucksRam said: Lurked on this thread for nearly 40 pages without commenting. Why? Because in today's society almost anything you say on race, religion, sex, disability or any number of things can be miss-construed or judged. We all have views and opinions based on our own race, colour, creed, upbringing, age or social class It's a precipice. I hadn't commented as I was worried about being judged. How mad is that really? Was CR right in saying what he did? No. Was he being consciously racist? IMO no. What he said however, WAS wrong as it created an unconscious bias and race stereotype. I was accused of being a racist 2 years ago at a Twickenham RFU bar by a black girl, just for challenging the cost of drinks on the basis of "are you saying black people can't add up". Utter madness (we were overcharged but she refused to apologise). My mate had a similar experience politely asking a woman to turn her phone off speaker in Nandos as it was full volume for ages and was affecting his family's meal time. The manager was scared to ask! She accused him of being a racist. Another school teacher mate is currently suspended undergoing safeguarding checks because he's twice had crying students in his office asking for support but had his door unknowingly closed. A female teacher has done similar but nothing's been said about that. He's now borderline depression as a result with the view that regardless he will give up the job he loves because of how he's been viewed. He feels he's being badged a groomer / paedophile. Where am I going with this? No idea really. Racism, sexism and most other -isms are a real thing and are very serious but there is still a long way to go yet to get rid of the huge grey area between society's perceptions of an innocent situation (my 3 examples), ignorance through something innocently said or done which does rightly cause offence (where CR falls into I think) and genuine racist or sexist comments aka monkey chants etc. which need to be dealt with as strongly as possible. Sorry for the long piece. Said my bit now. Let's just focus on the football, getting behind our great club and team regardless of their colour, nationality or sexual orientation. They pull on that shirt, they're a Ram, that's all there is to it. Cracking post Bucks. If I knew how to upload a youtube clip I would, Here's the thing, It's in a USA colledge, An African-American female asked all the white students to leave the class as the African-American students felt uncomfortable...Segregation ? Here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bloomer's Washing Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 FWIW, and forgive the multiple posting, but we had our say on this topic in the latest SBW podcast: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desirelines Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Steve Bloomer's Washing said: FWIW, and forgive the multiple posting, but we had our say on this topic in the latest SBW podcast I thought you both put forward your points in a very thoughtful, sensitive, and eloquent fashion. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: A good book. Terrifying thing is that it's 5 years old now - things have got exponentially worse as more and more people come online The only hope is that we'll reach a point where the shaming of a mistake becomes so routine that people start to lose interest and the furore passes within a matter of days/hours The danger is that if we never let anyone apologise and move on, then what is the point of them even apologising? They might as well just double-down and carry on being as bigoted as they like. As long as none of them ever hold public office, we'll be fine....oh Quality post , apart from a minority people learn and grow from life experiences , mistakes and also the good stuff and the truth is we have moved massively forward and continue to do so in terms of bigotry being educated out and not being accepted , I feel a bit sorry for ramage, not because he’s lost his job or the consequences he faced but more so that he’s been lacking in either life experience and understanding enough to have made the comment or unarticulate enough to fudge it up ,,, he’s made a right arse of himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Steve Bloomer's Washing said: FWIW, and forgive the multiple posting, but we had our say on this topic in the latest SBW podcast: Cant you give use the times in the podcast when you mention it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, DRBee said: Cant you give use the times in the podcast when you mention it? Or they want to get everyone listening to the whole thing? Nothing wrong with that. The best DCFC podcast there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 6 hours ago, BucksRam said: Lurked on this thread for nearly 40 pages without commenting. Why? Because in today's society almost anything you say on race, religion, sex, disability or any number of things can be miss-construed or judged. We all have views and opinions based on our own race, colour, creed, upbringing, age or social class It's a precipice. I hadn't commented as I was worried about being judged. How mad is that really? Was CR right in saying what he did? No. Was he being consciously racist? IMO no. What he said however, WAS wrong as it created an unconscious bias and race stereotype. I was accused of being a racist 2 years ago at a Twickenham RFU bar by a black girl, just for challenging the cost of drinks on the basis of "are you saying black people can't add up". Utter madness (we were overcharged but she refused to apologise). My mate had a similar experience politely asking a woman to turn her phone off speaker in Nandos as it was full volume for ages and was affecting his family's meal time. The manager was scared to ask! She accused him of being a racist. Another school teacher mate is currently suspended undergoing safeguarding checks because he's twice had crying students in his office asking for support but had his door unknowingly closed. A female teacher has done similar but nothing's been said about that. He's now borderline depression as a result with the view that regardless he will give up the job he loves because of how he's been viewed. He feels he's being badged a groomer / paedophile. Where am I going with this? No idea really. Racism, sexism and most other -isms are a real thing and are very serious but there is still a long way to go yet to get rid of the huge grey area between society's perceptions of an innocent situation (my 3 examples), ignorance through something innocently said or done which does rightly cause offence (where CR falls into I think) and genuine racist or sexist comments aka monkey chants etc. which need to be dealt with as strongly as possible. Sorry for the long piece. Said my bit now. Let's just focus on the football, getting behind our great club and team regardless of their colour, nationality or sexual orientation. They pull on that shirt, they're a Ram, that's all there is to it. you have set the line yourself for example Theres nothing wrong in challenging her ability to add up correctly but would be wrong to say all Black girls cant add up.Therefore if Ramage had said all/most young players need taking down a peg or two it would have been ok But to single out black players was utterly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 17/02/2020 at 17:08, IlsonDerby said: I have to say no... judging people for reading a newspaper that’s done the stuff the sun has done after knowing that they’ve done that stuff is quite telling. Don’t get me wrong nowt against the back pages but their front pages are absolute sewage. Racial stereotypes are not actually based on anything other than ignorance. The other part? I know Asian friends that have been held at gunpoint by armed police on their way homes from a night out. I know that black people are much more likely to be stopped by the police in a car than someone who looks like me. On 31/01/2020 at 10:35, A Ram for All Seasons said: I once made the mistake of going to Trafalgar Square on New Year's Eve with my mate Olu from Reading (whose parents hail from Nigeria). That is the night when people drape themselves in the Union Jack and throw themselves into the fountains. I have never encountered such vile, nasty, aggressive, in your face racism as on that night. Ducking n-word was quite tame compared to the other insults he had to endure. Please do yourselves a favour and keep away from people draped in the Union Jack. I avoid them like the plague. I think @IlsonDerby and @A Ram for All Seasons are sharing the same gluepot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambam Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, TommyPowell said: you have set the line yourself for example Theres nothing wrong in challenging her ability to add up correctly but would be wrong to say all Black girls cant add up.Therefore if Ramage had said all/most young players need taking down a peg or two it would have been ok But to single out black players was utterly wrong. ‘All or most’ is still a disgusting slur. He can’t be serious, or if he is, he has severe jealousy issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desirelines Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 To anyone still keen to fight Ramage's corner. Are you sure? Are you really sure now? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, desirelines said: To anyone still keen to fight Ramage's corner. Are you sure? Are you really sure now? ? So you are saying he should be judged on what somebody else says and not on what he says ?????? Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desirelines Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Archied said: So you are saying he should be judged on what somebody else says and not on what he says ?????? Wow Only joking pal. Don't mess your knickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, desirelines said: Only joking pal. Don't mess your knickers. Sorry ,thought you were being serious and in fairness there are lots that would see it the way you jokingly did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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