Derby V Burton match day thread

[Tamworthram]

50 minutes ago, Gabby'sThighs said:

Exactly. I thought Elder was okay overall, he put that lovely cross in, but the mistake was awful. He's rusty, and it's unfortunate that his slip directly led to a goal. It also goes to show that, for all we slag off the standard of League One, a fraction-of-a-second brain fart like Elder's can be ruthlessly punished.

Interestingly, I haven't seen Nelson get any flak for the first goal, when he sat off Seddon and allowed him to shoot. I think this is because Nelson has been consistently very good all season he gets leeway (I think I'm right in saying he's played every minute of every game so far...), whereas Elder has been injured and struggled to get going. We need Elder to get match-fit and have to accept some wobbles.

It's frustrating to see the same old niggly complaints on here when we should be excited about being 1 point off top!

Nelson could perhaps have done better but Seddon was running in on goal and, to an extent, Nelson had to wait for him to arrive. Perhaps he could/should have tried to close him down but there would have been risk of committing himself too early. After all, he was the last man. I'd say, could have done a little better but not too much to be critical about.

[DRBee]

59 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I mean in the words of Roy Keane, that's his job. It wasn't a major contribution, just the minimum expectation really. People have fair criticisms of Max Bird more than just he "does nuffink".

Laughable. Not a major contribution   ... but it got us 2 points !! As with Bird the whoscored stats give a different view and Hourhane was our most highly rated player. 

[Gabby'sThighs]

16 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Nelson could perhaps have done better but Seddon was running in on goal and, to an extent, Nelson had to wait for him to arrive. Perhaps he could/should have tried to close him down but there would have been risk of committing himself too early. After all, he was the last man. I'd say, could have done a little better but not too much to be critical about.

I hear you, but watch the goal again. Cashin was next to him covering the central runner, Elder was running back at LB, and Kane Wilson was closing in on Seddon at speed, so I wouldn't say he was a stranded last man. If he'd stepped out earlier, he could have forced Seddon to shoot from further out or knock the ball out wide.

I'm not saying it was a terrible decision, just that a different player (Bradley, for example) would probably get slagged off for it.
Seddon's shot was basically perfect though, so maybe I'm arguing pointlessly!

[Anag Ram]

4 minutes ago, Gabby'sThighs said:

I hear you, but watch the goal again. Cashin was next to him covering the central runner, Elder was running back at LB, and Kane Wilson was closing in on Seddon at speed, so I wouldn't say he was a stranded last man. If he'd stepped out earlier, he could have forced Seddon to shoot from further out or knock the ball out wide.

I'm not saying it was a terrible decision, just that a different player (Bradley, for example) would probably get slagged off for it.
Seddon's shot was basically perfect though, so maybe I'm arguing pointlessly!

Think Vickers would have saved the shot but for a slight deflection 

[G STAR RAM]

13 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

What are you on about - 3 at the back? Did you actually watch the game?

Clearly not.

It shows that some people just have criticisms of Warne that they just keep on repeating regardless of what is actually happening. 

There's another post on here from last night on about 'Warneball' and loads of pointless hoofs over the midfield.

I actually feel sorry for these people because they will quite clearly never enjoy anything while Warne is here.

[sage]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

bit concerned that Elder has a significant confidence issue to deal with which won't be helped by last night

It won't be helped by being hauled off 2 minutes after a mistake

[DavesaRam]

So now the emotion has subsided - it was a great game of football for the neutrals, but I'm not a neutral! The opening exchanges got me thinking that we've got too much for Burton, and we SHOULD be comfortable! And we had yet another chance to make a statement by going second. So Derby County said "Hold my beer", so now we are third! It's the Derby way. Fact is we are joint second, one point behind top with a game in hand. So its good!

First half all that Burton had to offer was lots of running around, and a lot of thug football. The ref was like a woman's blouse on washday - all wet and floppy, and many in the South Stand could see right through him, which is another feature of wet shirts, even though that is not what they are supposed to do. By half time there should have been 5 or 6 yellow cards to Burton, and possibly a red. Ironically the first goal was scored by a player who shouldn't have been on the pitch. But the ref's thighs swish together when  he runs because he hasn't got any balls to keep them apart. Seddon should also have been yellow carded for diving into the box to try and fake a penalty, but although the ref played the advantage, he didn't then go back and do what ref's are supposed to do. Neither did he card Seddon for running away with the ball, which apparently isn't as bad as kicking the ball away. 

Things changed in the second half because Patterson noticed that our players had turned midfield into a no-man's land, switched his formation and then  spent the next 20 minutes or so charging through the gaping holes we so thoughtfully provided for them, and the two  bits of poor play were heavily punished. How Burton could punish us when so many other teams haven't been capable I don't know, because the Brewers are not a good team. I find it strange that NML is getting rave reviews for his pace and threat, yet he has only put away a single one-on-one, and fluffed the rest, yet two Burton players put theirs away as though that's all they do for a living. But in part it is because of how we play at times. Although we like to get the ball forwards as fast as possible, at times we will take our time, especially when the opposition park the bus, in order to draw them out of their own half and leave gaps to exploit. But last night we twice got drawn into Burton's half and we got hit on the break for both goals, because we had hardly anyone back. 

Also, re the vacant midfield spaces: Bird's perceived poor performances are aften because he has two or three players buzzing round him at all times, and when he does get the ball in space, there is  no-one to pass to because everyone is scurrying out wide as though the middle of the pitch is riddled with land mines. He actually played well last night, and as well as blocks and interceptions, he made a number of runs through the middle - I hope Warne wasn't watching! 

The eventual bolstering of midfield did the trick, but rather than Thompson being the key - and I really rate him and what he brings to the team - the real difference was Sibley who saw loads of the ball, took men on and put loads of crosses on, and our taking back control revolved around him being brought on to the pitch. Ironically if he had made the mistake which Elder did, there would be a second thread all to himself demand he be flogged or be given a flogging! The kid did really well last night!

But man of the match has to be Wilson, who to me is the best footballer we've had at the club for years and years. I don't think he put a foot wrong defensively, although I could be wrong, skinned his defenders for fun, and I think only put one poor cross in all night. A great player!

So we are sitting very well in the league right now, with the main threat being Bolton, if they can use the potential of their games in hand. If so, top spot is theirs. But  one of the top spots is ours. All we've got to do is fill it! COME ON YOU RAMS!

[sage]

34 minutes ago, Gabby'sThighs said:

I hear you, but watch the goal again. Cashin was next to him covering the central runner, Elder was running back at LB, and Kane Wilson was closing in on Seddon at speed, so I wouldn't say he was a stranded last man. If he'd stepped out earlier, he could have forced Seddon to shoot from further out or knock the ball out wide.

I'm not saying it was a terrible decision, just that a different player (Bradley, for example) would probably get slagged off for it.
Seddon's shot was basically perfect though, so maybe I'm arguing pointlessly!

The shot was deflected off Nelson. It ended being in a perfect pace.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, DRBee said:

Laughable. Not a major contribution   ... but it got us 2 points !! As with Bird the whoscored stats give a different view and Hourhane was our most highly rated player. 

He challenged a header, that's what he's supposed to do, him doing that is a minor part of the goal and I'd expect that from anyone. Who scored can give whatever ratings they like based on their metrics, my view is that both Bird and Hourihane did not play well.

[Wolfie20]

42 minutes ago, Sufferingfool said:

I can imagine, listening on the way back he was talking a load of tosh about JJ who I thought had a decent game especially first half and needs the ball passed to his feet. He’s a bit of a miserable bugger!

 

I listened to that on the way home - Gibson was just as poor as Steele and I don't think RD have made the best decision in bringing him back. As a pair I get the feeling they're almost becoming Ramage & Dawes Mk2 - heaven forbid!

As far as the match is concerned, bar the first and last 5 minutes, our 2nd half performance was nowhere near good enough but the praise given to Burton by Steele and Gibson was laughable. All our 2nd half problems were of our own making but despite that our keeper never had a difficult save to make. Burtons' sole attacking threat in the first half was to toss long throw-ins into our penalty box which for the most part we dealt with comfortably. Second half, our midfield collapse gave them more possession but what did they do with it - very little, apart from being gifted the 2 goals. In fact, the 2 best chances before we scored the winner fell to NML and Collins.

The only team  deserving of the 3 points was us but that 2nd half performance wasn't something we can get away with too often.

[Ellafella]

13 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

So now the emotion has subsided - it was a great game of football for the neutrals, but I'm not a neutral! The opening exchanges got me thinking that we've got too much for Burton, and we SHOULD be comfortable! And we had yet another chance to make a statement by going second. So Derby County said "Hold my beer", so now we are third! It's the Derby way. Fact is we are joint second, one point behind top with a game in hand. So its good!

First half all that Burton had to offer was lots of running around, and a lot of thug football. The ref was like a woman's blouse on washday - all wet and floppy, and many in the South Stand could see right through him, which is another feature of wet shirts, even though that is not what they are supposed to do. By half time there should have been 5 or 6 yellow cards to Burton, and possibly a red. Ironically the first goal was scored by a player who shouldn't have been on the pitch. But the ref's thighs swish together when  he runs because he hasn't got any balls to keep them apart. Seddon should also have been yellow carded for diving into the box to try and fake a penalty, but although the ref played the advantage, he didn't then go back and do what ref's are supposed to do. Neither did he card Seddon for running away with the ball, which apparently isn't as bad as kicking the ball away. 

Things changed in the second half because Patterson noticed that our players had turned midfield into a no-man's land, switched his formation and then  spent the next 20 minutes or so charging through the gaping holes we so thoughtfully provided for them, and the two  bits of poor play were heavily punished. How Burton could punish us when so many other teams haven't been capable I don't know, because the Brewers are not a good team. I find it strange that NML is getting rave reviews for his pace and threat, yet he has only put away a single one-on-one, and fluffed the rest, yet two Burton players put theirs away as though that's all they do for a living. But in part it is because of how we play at times. Although we like to get the ball forwards as fast as possible, at times we will take our time, especially when the opposition park the bus, in order to draw them out of their own half and leave gaps to exploit. But last night we twice got drawn into Burton's half and we got hit on the break for both goals, because we had hardly anyone back. 

Also, re the vacant midfield spaces: Bird's perceived poor performances are aften because he has two or three players buzzing round him at all times, and when he does get the ball in space, there is  no-one to pass to because everyone is scurrying out wide as though the middle of the pitch is riddled with land mines. He actually played well last night, and as well as blocks and interceptions, he made a number of runs through the middle - I hope Warne wasn't watching! 

The eventual bolstering of midfield did the trick, but rather than Thompson being the key - and I really rate him and what he brings to the team - the real difference was Sibley who saw loads of the ball, took men on and put loads of crosses on, and our taking back control revolved around him being brought on to the pitch. Ironically if he had made the mistake which Elder did, there would be a second thread all to himself demand he be flogged or be given a flogging! The kid did really well last night!

But man of the match has to be Wilson, who to me is the best footballer we've had at the club for years and years. I don't think he put a foot wrong defensively, although I could be wrong, skinned his defenders for fun, and I think only put one poor cross in all night. A great player!

So we are sitting very well in the league right now, with the main threat being Bolton, if they can use the potential of their games in hand. If so, top spot is theirs. But  one of the top spots is ours. All we've got to do is fill it! COME ON YOU RAMS!

Spot on @DavesaRamabout midfield and Sibley & Wilson. 

[i-Ram]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

The character shown by management and players alike is exemplary. They really are a gutsy bunch of shoestring-budget journeymen and kids - and for the moment, that's enough for me.

After our shaky start to the season, some seemed to be suggesting a struggle at t'other end of the table would be our likely outcome.

Blimey Eddie - you seem to be comparing our team with some untrained Second World War heroes who took on the Nazi's with a spade and a fork.

I accept the team are gutsy and of great character. Management too. However, when you describe them as a bunch of shoestring-budget journeymen and kids you lose me.  We are in League 1, which consists almost entirely of shoestring-budget journeymen and kids.  In my opinion our bunch (squad) of shoestring-budget journeymen and kids are the strongest in the league. I can't personally think of another squad I would swap with. Peterboro or Bolton perhaps, but I really doubt it.

I said at the start of the season that with our squad, in what is a weak league, we should and must finish top two. I also said that in spite of Warne we should achieve it. I still think we will, but I really can't say the team has improved much in terms of playing controlled football this season.  I opt to watch less these days, and my last 3 watches have been Stevenage, Peterborough and Burton. In none of those games have we shown any decent game management. We just seem so open at times in a desire to go toe to toe. It'll probably work if we pick up a couple of decent players this window, but will we get them? Of the 12(?) players we bought in the summer how many have been useful, and improved the team and its footballing quality. Nelson, Nyambe and perhaps Wilson. 

Overall I am happy we have another 3 points, and I can't wait for promotion, which I will celebrate like everyone. But lets not think we are achieving results as some plucky underdog. We are better than that, and Warne needs to cut out the mistakes he is making - see @Caerphilly Ram's viewpoint on his weaknesses above. He should also ensure he buys/prioritises a good midfielder to support Bird and Hourihane.

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, Ram-Alf said:

Elder has been out for some time, Patrice(Burton)made it hard for him, Their 2nd wasn't solely down to him...imo, He's left on his own while every one in chasing the 3rd goal, A cracking through ball a slight slip and the lads through on goal.

Just like JJ...Elder has to build up match fitness...It'll come with game time, But when Forsyth gets fit he's our number 3 👍

I agree with that, I didn’t last night think it was all Elder’s fault and I still feel the same today. He’s made an error, for sure, however I don’t know why we needed to leave him as the only man back when we were in the lead at that point. It’s a moot point now I guess, I just don’t think he’s as bad as some make out. His cross played a part in the second goal we scored, his clearing header led to the counter in which NML nearly scored then he made up the ground to get on the rebound and hit the target himself with a defender or the keeper blocking it on the line. I’m happy to give him more time.

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Blimey Eddie - you seem to be comparing our team with some untrained Second World War heroes who took on the Nazi's with a spade and a fork.

I accept the team are gutsy and of great character. Management too. However, when you describe them as a bunch of shoestring-budget journeymen and kids you lose me.  We are in League 1, which consists almost entirely of shoestring-budget journeymen and kids.  In my opinion our bunch (squad) of shoestring-budget journeymen and kids are the strongest in the league. I can't personally think of another squad I would swap with. Peterboro or Bolton perhaps, but I really doubt it.

I said at the start of the season that with our squad, in what is a weak league, we should and must finish top two. I also said that in spite of Warne we should achieve it. I still think we will, but I really can't say the team has improved much in terms of playing controlled football this season.  I opt to watch less these days, and my last 3 watches have been Stevenage, Peterborough and Burton. In none of those games have we shown any decent game management. We just seem so open at times in a desire to go toe to toe. It'll probably work if we pick up a couple of decent players this window, but will we get them? Of the 12(?) players we bought in the summer how many have been useful, and improved the team and its footballing quality. Nelson, Nyambe and perhaps Wilson. 

Overall I am happy we have another 3 points, and I can't wait for promotion, which I will celebrate like everyone. But lets not think we are achieving results as some plucky underdog. We are better than that, and Warne needs to cut out the mistakes he is making - see @Caerphilly Ram's viewpoint on his weaknesses above. He should also ensure he buys/prioritises a good midfielder to support Bird and Hourihane.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but when you're openly admitting to not watching very much and, correct me if I'm wrong, not really watching any other League One football, then your views are always open to challenge.

Personally, the more and more I've seen of League One, the more it's abundantly clear that the liquid football and control of games you speak of is rare. It happens for spells in games, maybe a whole game if you're lucky, but certainly not week to week. And that goes for every single team, not just us. It's the nature of the League and the quality/talent within it.

[NOTSA74]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m really not keen on these “never wear the Derby shirt again” type comments. I’d be nervous the next time he’s picked at right back but it wouldn’t be the first time a player has had a shaky start to his career at Derby (or any club come to think of it) but then gone on to perform well. He was good going forward but there were some serious flaws in his defensive performance last night that need to be eliminated (or at least reduced significantly -no player is perfect) pretty damn quickly.

I think Chris Powell had a bit of a shaky start for us. I only really remember that because I was working in the office at the Baseball Ground on Matchdays and I took a call from someone at Southend United who assured me that he was going to be a really good player for us and  asked me to pass on a message to him. 

For the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying Elder is the next Chris Powell but I think we need to see more before we completely write him off.

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, Srg said:

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but when you're openly admitting to not watching very much and, correct me if I'm wrong, not really watching any other League One football, then your views are always open to challenge.

Personally, the more and more I've seen of League One, the more it's abundantly clear that the liquid football and control of games you speak of is rare. It happens for spells in games, maybe a whole game if you're lucky, but certainly not week to week. And that goes for every single team, not just us. It's the nature of the League and the quality/talent within it.

All fair points. However, I really don't expect liquid football. I just feel we could be doing a lot more basic stuff right with the players at our disposal. Up the Rams!

[May Contain Nuts]

Not sure where this idea that people don't understand that there are 11 opposition players on the pitch comes from, that it's inevitable the other team will have a good spell / throw everything at you when you're in the lead, and that there's nothing you can do to stop it.

I've watched Derby put out pee poor performances too many times to count over the years, seen many matches where we've been dominated from first whistle to last without looking like we could lay a glove on the opposition, read countless posts to that effect from people complaining that we were toothless, offered no threat in games, were lacking effort etc. People said it plenty under Cocu.

Yet when the shoe's on the other foot...

[jimtastic56]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Steele usually talks a load of tosh IMO. I’ve started mentally turning off when he talks.

Yep , we don’t want the honest opinions of somebody with 5 promotions and has coached at Man C and Man Utd . Let’s have a “Happy Clapper” that can tell us how amazing things are all the time .

[Srg]

Just now, jimtastic56 said:

Yep , we don’t want the honest opinions of somebody with 5 promotions and has coached at Man C and Man Utd . Let’s have a “Happy Clapper” that can tell us how amazing things are all the time .

This is the opinion which gives us crap pundits on TV constantly. Just because someone has played or even coached/managed, doesn't mean they're good at talking about it to an audience, and in some cases, have a better opinion than anyone else.

[On the Ram Page]

4 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

The obvious one last night is completely failing to react to them making a double-sub and changing shape.  

Just watched the game back, they just made 2 like for like substitutions, there was no change of shape. We just made 2 clangers from which they scored.