Derby V Burton match day thread

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Personally, I didn't hear a single call for a change after our second goal, that's probably because at that point we were absolutely cruising and Burton had hardly had a kick.

I think you're completely rewriting history here with the benefit of hindsight.

I was certainly discussing it at half time with the guys I sit with - maybe get Sibley or Thompson on for TJJ because he was barely contributing, and we needed an extra body in midfield.  I can understand why you wouldn't make that change then though.  What I don't understand is how they go from 2-0 down to 2-2 without us changing anything. In fact, it's another 7 minutes before we make our first sub, and that's basically a like-for-like change getting Sibley on for Elder.

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

This was exactly my thoughts. 

What they did was push Hugill up much higher than Bennett was playing, so he was almost a second striker.  It wasn't a massive change of formation or anything, but it was enough to start causing us problems.

[Norman]

24 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I was certainly discussing it at half time with the guys I sit with - maybe get Sibley or Thompson on for TJJ because he was barely contributing, and we needed an extra body in midfield.  I can understand why you wouldn't make that change then though.  What I don't understand is how they go from 2-0 down to 2-2 without us changing anything. In fact, it's another 7 minutes before we make our first sub, and that's basically a like-for-like change getting Sibley on for Elder.

What they did was push Hugill up much higher than Bennett was playing, so he was almost a second striker.  It wasn't a massive change of formation or anything, but it was enough to start causing us problems.

Yeah, they started pressing our defenders with 2 up front. The last 15 mins including injury time, they reverted back to 1. Wasn't technically a formation change, but a tweak that was causing us problems.

[Sed]

Agree with most on here about having a less than mobile midfield,having Cash and Nelson in such good form has papered over it slightly….VERY happy to win the game tho,mainly as my name is Steve Seddon!!

[Gabby'sThighs]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

Oh, for goodness sake, don't say that. You will totally shatter the illusions of the Warne-haters who would otherwise continually maintain that every goal we concede is the fault of the management being continually out-thought by the opposition boss, whose 'cunning plan' would have inevitably resulted in failure if only Clowes had only had the foresight to have given the job to one of our Championship Manager 01/02 experts.

I can't see how you would possibly know that I have an unhealthy addiction to Championship Manager 01/02, but here we are....
If my 10,000 hours of hard virtual graft have taught me one thing, it's that you should probably sub your most tired player at 60 minutes, regardless of the score. And sign Taribo West on a free.

In all seriousness though, Elder and JJ have played very little this season, and I was definitely shouting at the telly to use the bench, particularly when Burton double-subbed at 62 mins. Not to change formation or whatever, just to freshen things up and keep Burton thinking.

We have a strong bench so why wait so late to use it? But we won the game, so what do I know?

[Walkley Ram]

5 minutes ago, Sed said:

Agree with most on here about having a less than mobile midfield,having Cash and Nelson in such good form has papered over it slightly….VERY happy to win the game tho,mainly as my name is Steve Seddon!!

You shouldn't have stayed on the pitch pal

 

[VulcanRam]

Dare I say, in the mad rush to apportion blame for everything, Burton's second goal was an absolute belter. When our cross went into their area Hugill was on the edge of his own box and was about the furthest forward Burton player. We had at least three players directly between him and the half way line.

If you look at the Burton player who comes away with the ball - he's facing and running towards (broadly) the west stand. As soon as he gets it Hugill is off in another direction - more towards the centre spot. 

Elder, as the last man, is following the trajectory of the man with the ball and looking to cover that area, not realising at that stage that Hugill is running on his blind side and approaching his territory. As the ball is being played, he has to change direction, change his body shape, and try to get across to the ball. Plenty of times he might have managed that, but for two things. 

Firstly it was an outstanding ball from the Burton player to Hugill, absolutely pinpoint and virtually the only spot he could have put it to allow Hugill a straight run on goal. Secondly, look at Hugill's first touch, it was sublime. Any element of close control, stopping it, scuffing it and Elder is on him, but his first touch takes it out of his feet and directly towards goal, giving him the run on Elder. Also, he started that run from the edge of his area as soon as possession was turned over. Brilliant play. 

Yes we can ask questions about Elder (I thought he had a decent game tbf), and maybe Hourihane's positioning and movement if we want, but I just thought it was an outstanding bit of play by Burton. Good finish too.

  

[Crewton]

It was a fair result - in fact, 4-2 would have been fairer overall. Burton had a good spell of maybe 20 minutes, but there's no evidence other than perception to say that we got lucky, or their manager "had our manager's pants down" at any stage.

https://www.sportinglife.com/football/live/162934/stats

[oomarkwright]

For the people at the game, would you swap elder for Seddon at the end of the season? 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, oomarkwright said:

For the people at the game, would you swap elder for Seddon at the end of the season? 

I'd swap Elder for a bag of balls and a packet of Revels, but I wasn't at the game. 👍

[Brammie Steve]

Not having been at the match I had to follow on BBC Sport.

Paterson is right to be proud of his team. He was not afraid to use subs and struck me as a manager with strategy plans A and B. He did not stick rigidly to a plan that was clearly not threatening the mighty Rams and led to a world class equaliser!

He also makes brilliant shortbread BTW!

[Tamworthram]

7 minutes ago, oomarkwright said:

For the people at the game, would you swap elder for Seddon at the end of the season? 

Based on that single game (I didn't really notice him when we played them at their place)? possibly although I'm not sure Seddon was that strong or faultless defensively. Would Seddon have dealt with the situation better if he'd been exposed like Elder was for one of their goals? We'll never know.

In reality though, I think Elder might well improve (as I said earlier in this thread, he wouldn't be the first player in a Derby shirt to make a shaky start but then go on to be decent) and I haven't seen enough of Seddon to know how good he is (or not).

[nick_d]

2 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

 

If you look at the Burton player who comes away with the ball - he's facing and running towards (broadly) the west stand. As soon as he gets it Hugill is off in another direction - more towards the centre spot. 

Elder, as the last man, is following the trajectory of the man with the ball and looking to cover that area, not realising at that stage that Hugill is running on his blind side and approaching his territory. As the ball is being played, he has to change direction, change his body shape, and try to get across to the ball. Plenty of times he might have managed that, but for two things. 

  

When the ball was played to Hugill, he dummied Elder by making out he was going to stop and collect the ball, Elder went to stop and slipped a bit when he realised the dummy. Good play by Hugill all round

[ram59]

32 minutes ago, oomarkwright said:

For the people at the game, would you swap elder for Seddon at the end of the season? 

Yes...................................................if you could guarantee that Seddon played like that most weeks, but sadly, it seems that it was a bit of a one off performance from him (he's ranked at 219 on whoscored,com stats at a very average 6.57, even below our much maligned Korey Smith).

It's a bit unfair to call time on Elder, after all, he was only making his third start in an injury ravaged season, but then we love to slag off some our own players at the drop of a hat.

[angieram]

I don't think Seddon was all that. He was very lucky not to have got booked first half and that would have made him play more cautiously, imo.

Like a lot of players, they have their best games against Derby at Pride Park. Big game, big occasion for them.

Hugill, though, will have class, he's from Man United's academy. See how he likes it when he's being manhandled at Stevenage, but we gave him room to play. He's bound to appreciate that. 

[TuffLuff]

12 minutes ago, angieram said:

I don't think Seddon was all that. He was very lucky not to have got booked first half and that would have made him play more cautiously, imo.

Like a lot of players, they have their best games against Derby at Pride Park. Big game, big occasion for them.

Hugill, though, will have class, he's from Man United's academy. See how he likes it when he's being manhandled at Stevenage, but we gave him room to play. He's bound to appreciate that. 

Hugill, great goal but did absolutely nothing else. Paterson rolled the dice with 30 mins to play, much like Warne did against Peterborough after 45. It works for a bit, but it gives the opposition chance to counter what you did. Peterborough did it the other day a lad that’s what Derby did on Monday. Substitutions and when the right time to do them is vital. It gave Burton a short boost but over 90 mins it probably weakened them.

[BucksRam]

12 minutes ago, angieram said:

I don't think Seddon was all that. He was very lucky not to have got booked first half and that would have made him play more cautiously, imo.

Like a lot of players, they have their best games against Derby at Pride Park. Big game, big occasion for them.

Hugill, though, will have class, he's from Man United's academy. See how he likes it when he's being manhandled at Stevenage, but we gave him room to play. He's bound to appreciate that. 

Agree - Seddon had one of those games where he was involved in everything so looked good at face value BUT this was because the ref let him.  If I recall, he did at least two tackles that should have carried yellows but were ignored by the (rubbish) ref. And I spotted at least another couple of fouls by him that were also ignored.  Like you say, he was centre stage, at Derby and on TV and was given almost free reign by the officials.

We didn't see a lot of Hugill but just in the short glimpse he took his goal extremely well, kept his nerve and easily slotted it home. 

[Foreveram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'd swap Elder for a bag of balls and a packet of Revels, but I wasn't at the game. 👍

Pity, you’d have seen another win😉

[On the Ram Page]

1 hour ago, oomarkwright said:

For the people at the game, would you swap elder for Seddon at the end of the season? 

Absolutely not. Scored a worldy but so did Shane Nicholson once! More to the point he has already had 2 red cards this season and some would argue he should have had a 3rd!

[NottsRam]

1 hour ago, nick_d said:

When the ball was played to Hugill, he dummied Elder by making out he was going to stop and collect the ball, Elder went to stop and slipped a bit when he realised the dummy. Good play by Hugill all round

Agreed, very clever movement by Hugill, took a step towards the ball then set off in the opposite direction immediately, left Elder flat footed and not able to recover.

[RoyMac5]

29 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Pity, you’d have seen another win😉

Ahhhh thanks. But I was sitting in the warmth of Gran Canaria sipping rum and coke watching the match on RamsTV. 🐏