Glass half full!

[Ram-Alf]

34 minutes ago, Archied said:

Truth is most clubs at all levels are on a constant rebuild apart from a few who are at a level and just tinkering to improve and those tend to have stability at the manager level, maybe chelsea and Liverpool are in a bit more of a bigger rebuild the last year or so 

Again we're on that  of opinion 

[Elwood P Dowd]

Round and round it goes where it ends no one knows 😂😂😂

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

I think the fact they can spend more money on one player in a season that could buy our team and stadium in a one suggests the difference between the dominance you expect and reality  Derby are a big club that have been through turmoil. Currently a band of misfits in my eyes, a band of mercenaries that have been poached, freebies and potentials. 

They have been bought together in the hope that they can be gelled into a winning team.

You argue that the rest of the league are awful, but the difference is they have been pretty much together as teams for a while with the odd addition, they know the league. They play tough (not pretty football). Most rely on sitting as a back 11 then hitting on the break. They are hard to break down.

People who think this league is a walk over, are deluding them selves.

Did you bother fact checking before making that claim?

Barnsley, Carlisle, Charlton and Oxford made just as many signings as us (12).
Bristol Rovers, Burton, Cheltenham, Exeter, Portsmouth, Port Vale, Reading, Shrewsbury, Stevenage and Wycombe made more signings
Of the sides signings fewer players than us, the majority signed 11.

[ram59]

For those saying that we should walk this league, how many other 'big' clubs have been in lg1 and straight away walked the league. The dirties, red dogs, Sunderland, Sheff Wed and Ipswich have all struggled to get back into the Championship and none of them have had to start from ground zero and work under severe restrictions like Derby.

[TINMANTED]

5 hours ago, Sheff Ram said:

You know the answer to that question. Marginal progress but effectively with nothing tangible to show. But another year of experience of the division, and hopefully better placed to launch a serious Top 2 challenge in 2024-25.

another year in this hell will do untold damage to the club,and the clubs future support,its breaking my heart seeing most of the young people walking round with trees on their shirts

[BathRam72]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Did you bother fact checking before making that claim?

Barnsley, Carlisle, Charlton and Oxford made just as many signings as us (12).
Bristol Rovers, Burton, Cheltenham, Exeter, Portsmouth, Port Vale, Reading, Shrewsbury, Stevenage and Wycombe made more signings
Of the sides signings fewer players than us, the majority signed 11.

Maybe I put it badly. Most teams have added players to an already solid base. We had to add to just have a team. Hardly enhancing,  rather a new team. A few left over from last year, but filled gaps with what we could cobble together 

[jimtastic56]

51 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Maybe I put it badly. Most teams have added players to an already solid base. We had to add to just have a team. Hardly enhancing,  rather a new team. A few left over from last year, but filled gaps with what we could cobble together 

A lot of our players are much of a muchness e.g Centre mid - Smith , Hourihane , Fornah , Fapetu , Bird , Sibley and Thomson. - any 3 from 7 won’t make much difference . Only when you put NML in there do we go past players.

[ram59]

1 hour ago, TINMANTED said:

another year in this hell will do untold damage to the club,and the clubs future support,its breaking my heart seeing most of the young people walking round with trees on their shirts

Referring to my previous post, has it done untold damage to the dirties, red dogs, Sunderland and Ipswich or was it just part of their rebuilding?

[BathRam72]

23 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

A lot of our players are much of a muchness e.g Centre mid - Smith , Hourihane , Fornah , Fapetu , Bird , Sibley and Thomson. - any 3 from 7 won’t make much difference . Only when you put NML in there do we go past players.

I totally agree with you. Which goes along with my point that we only had the pick of the rest due to the so called constraints we are or were under. So does PW need a full unlimited unrestricted window to buy the players he wants/needs.  Surely only thrn can we judge him.

[RoyMac5]

Last season we went on an 18 (?) game unbeaten run - why weren't we building on that? Why did we need to start again as some are suggesting? I have no idea what most of you are standing up for, we look no better than when Warne arrived. He's had a year and two transfer windows. He's got a stronger academy. What has he done? But we have to give him more time because that is the only way to tell if he's any good. #whatever

#glassofficiallyempty

[Wignall12]

1 hour ago, TINMANTED said:

another year in this hell will do untold damage to the club,and the clubs future support,its breaking my heart seeing most of the young people walking round with trees on their shirts

Our punishment is working exactly the way the authorities planned it to. Another 12 out of contract this summer ? ........

Start again ......again

 

[Comrade 86]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

#glassofficiallyempty

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

Maybe I put it badly. Most teams have added players to an already solid base. We had to add to just have a team. Hardly enhancing,  rather a new team. A few left over from last year, but filled gaps with what we could cobble together 

What is a 'solid base'? When looking at the most used 11 (by mins played in all competitions) we're using fewer new signings than the top 2 sides in the league - both finished below us last season too.
Derby: 3
Portsmouth: 7
Oxford: 5

[Dan_Ram]

Still have the oldest average age squad in the league. Hangover from not being able to pay money for players.

Hopefully we can start to bring in a few more adventurous, energetic youngsters to inject a bit of pace & excitement back in to the squad. Feel that things are just a bit too slow at times. One or two in January would be a good start.

Let's face it, the damage done by administration and embargos will take years to reverse. Need a bit of patience.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Dan_Ram said:

Still have the oldest average age squad in the league. Hangover from not being able to pay money for players.

Hopefully we can start to bring in a few more adventurous, energetic youngsters to inject a bit of pace & excitement back in to the squad. Feel that things are just a bit too slow at times. One or two in January would be a good start.

Let's face it, the damage done by administration and embargos will take years to reverse. Need a bit of patience.

What's wrong with the one's we've got in the Academy?

[Jourdan]

I think Warne needs to really step up now and show why we backed him with a long term contract.

The pressure is on and he needs a good run of encouraging results and performances. Barnsley at home can’t be a one-off.

We should be finishing in the top six with relative comfort, so we have another 30 games to determine that. We should also be getting to the very latter stages of the EFL Trophy (semi final at a minimum), so again some time is needed to determine if we can meet that.

In that sense, now the dust has settled on Crewe at home, there is still something for Warne to aim for and he has something to prove. Clowes will give him time and the opportunity to do so, so we need to accept that.

The evidence so far suggests that we haven’t really improved the squad sufficiently to genuinely demand more. With the exception of Nyambe and Nelson, none of the new signings have established themselves as regular starters in the first XI. We haven’t replaced the quality of McGoldrick, for instance.

Warne needs our support for now.

[Ghost of Clough]

17 minutes ago, Dan_Ram said:

Still have the oldest average age squad in the league. Hangover from not being able to pay money for players.

Hopefully we can start to bring in a few more adventurous, energetic youngsters to inject a bit of pace & excitement back in to the squad. Feel that things are just a bit too slow at times. One or two in January would be a good start.

Let's face it, the damage done by administration and embargos will take years to reverse. Need a bit of patience.

1. We could have paid a fee in the summer but chose not to.
2. We will pays fees for players we bought in the summer depending on promotion and sell-ons.
3. We signed 4 players who are 30 or older in the summer, when younger players were available (even on a free).
4. We would have a younger squad if we used the academy more than we have been,

[Dan_Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

What's wrong with the one's we've got in the Academy?

They aren't good enough yet, otherwise they'd be in the first team...

Who would you suggest from the U21s that is currently better than our starting XI?

Brown might be the only one close IMO. Robinson, Weston, Fapetu, Wheeldon all have potential but not 1st team quality yet.

I'm talking about bringing in 20-24 yr olds that have league experience. Unfortunately we are looking at Ireland, Scotland, lower leagues & Premier league cast-offs, because that's the pool we are fishing in at the minute.

[May Contain Nuts]

Warning: May Contain the longest post in the history of the forum. Read it all if you're feeling masochistic, if not quit whenever you like or maybe don't even start it. In fact I'd ask that certain posters (who probably know who they are tbh) ignore it altogether. I probably won't respond to arguments against it anyway because I simply can't be arsed to get into a to and fro, My enthusiasm for posting has gone right down the pan recently tbh and I'm, sick of having the same discussions and making the same points.

One last time though 🤣

 

Surely whether the glass is half full or half empty depends on whether you had a full glass or an empty glass in the first place?

I guess others may be viewing our current situation through the same lens they wore during the period of administration, in which case their starting position is likely that of having an empty glass, and anything else is a bonus? For me it's the opposite.

I was full of optimism when we came out of administration. The chance for a big reset and to grow the club in the 'right' way, to employ a forward thinking manager to help build a new identity with a clear way of playing that we could develop and improve over time, including proper integration of the academy with their transition to the first team eased by there being a thread running from the top of the club to the bottom, no massive disconnects in intent (or 'vision') or style. Everyone on the same page.

I was expecting and accepting that it might take a few years of slow and steady but sustainable growth. I thought it was going to be a tough and ugly league full of seasoned pros and wizened old managers, and that while they'd probably have the upper hand on us for a spell we'd learn as we went. And that was OK, we would be building toward something better, everyone understood that patience was required.

Then we started playing, and the league was nothing like I'd feared. Besides, even if it had been we'd now appointed a League One promotion specialist to help even out any disadvantage, someone who'd use his talents to get the better of other managers. Or so I thought.

Even our hurriedly assembled squad quickly showed the division up for what it really is, there was and is (this season, especially) nothing to fear from anybody. With better squad rotation to help reduce the late season burnout we could easily have found ourselves finishing in the playoffs - ultimately it came down to a single goal, one narrow defeat turned to a draw, one draw turned to a win and we'd have been in, and then who knows?

The season ended in mildly disappointing fashion. Rather unexpectedly so, as if you'd have asked a before a ball was kicked you'd have taken a top 10 finish, but the appointment of Warne coupled with seeing how poor the league really is did raise expectations of what we should be achieving and when. How could it not have done? You don't appoint 'promotion experts' only to be eternally patient while they make mistakes they probably shouldn't be making.

My optimism was dampened at various points by the performance of the manager, his lack of of tactical nous leading to him being out-thought multiple times by opposition managers, his poor squad management and lack of adequate rotation, some deep flaws in his playing philosophy (surely this isn't what we thought we were getting, or is it?) but toward the very end of the season I'd convinced myself he was showing some progress.

-----

And so we roll onto this season, there's some fanfare about the restrictions being eased, a big interview where the chairman of the club states that our budget is good enough, in his opinion, for promotion.

This sounds like an ideal opportunity - a second opportunity after somewhat blowing the first one -  now we've had time to plan it, to really get to grips with the 'project' we had in mind before Warne was employed which when coupled with his past record of getting the most out of his squad as a collective should have seen us taking advantage of the best of both worlds. It didn't happen last season but fair's fair, it wasn't his squad and realistically we could not have done anything in that January window to really change or even adequately supplement what we had.

Our initial signings on paper sounded altogether quite promising, the aim was to build a squad which includes a number of players who either still have something to offer at Championship level (justifying their likely higher-than-average wage demands) or could improve to reach that level. An admirable target. The manager and the players talk of a promotion season, with the aim set for automatics, it's very convincing.

My glass isn't quite full at that stage, but at about 85/90% The other 10/15% depends on the manager having learned lessons from the season just past.

However, the progress seen (whether it was actually there or not) last season went out of the window when it became clear that the manager had his heart set on 3 at the back with wingbacks but more importantly playing the same style of football he deployed at Rotherham (but without the necessary type of players), rather than building on what worked the previous season, meaning certain positions that otherwise would only need a starter or a covering player are completely unfilled and require both.

Another 'reset' then, but maybe it wouldn't matter? We have plenty of scope now to build the team Warne wants, and in the end we bring in 10 permanent signings. Unfortunately some of those signings get injured, but some look so badly researched that they look disastrously unsuited to what's asked of them and can't get in the team, some are simply not being used very much for one reason or another.  Even without the injuries it's difficult to see where everyone really fits in with the style of play so it's a transfer window effectively wasted - one which we're not looking to 'correct the mistakes of' (as is typically the manager's view of business done in January) in a couple of months.

The recruitment that once looked promising now looks haphazard, and we're back to our good performances taking the shape of something the manager has been forced to implement (through both poor performances when attempting to play his preferred style and injuries) rather than what he actually planned for. Meanwhile teams who have brought in more players than us and with many of them likely to be on lower wages show us that one of the key excuses for our performance - the team needing to gel - is somewhat negligible, as we'd also shown ourselves the previous season.

The matches we watch often come with the most predictable and telegraphed tactical approach imaginable yet somehow the messages coming from the sidelines are still muddled and the players rarely seem to know when the manager actually wants. One week it's criticism for not moving the ball quick enough the next it's for trying to be too quick and not taking care of the ball enough, one minute they're told to bypass the middle but the next they've played it wide too often. Players are still being given roles that don't suit them, or played in multiple roles in a single game and across games and often don't seem to know if they're coming or going. Substitutions are still largely random, or done so with an attempt to shoehorn in 3 at the back. The manager still doesn't know what to do when his main gameplan isn't working and he gets tetchy AF whenever challenged on the details.

Throw into that the poor implementation of academy players and the attitude toward them on which has been discussed at length recently, and there's neither a real identity or any clear future planning on display. People say that the academy players will come in when they're ready, but if they only ever get put on the pitch when there's absolutely nothing on the line then not one of them will ever be ready.

There's no reason to think that we can take what we're doing this season and 'step it up' should we get promoted, beyond the idea that we can simply chuck more money at it than Rotherham could.

-----

I feel very much like there are certain posters who see our potential promotion under Warne as the only criteria on which he should be judged and are willing to close their eyes to everything else.

All the reasons for my glass being (mostly) full at the start of the past 2 seasons are the very things that the manager has failed to deliver any progress toward, and shows no real signs of being interested in going forward - he doesn't appear to be doing anything other than looking after his own skin. I see him working far more in the interests of Paul Warne than of Derby County.

While a manager shouldn't sacrifice everything that they want for the sake of the club and should obviously be able to stamp their own identity on it (otherwise you end up with Cocu Season 2), there needs to be a better balance than that which is currently offered up. This alone makes it difficult to 'back' Warne or for me to believe he's the right manager for where we are as a club right now, or where we want to be.

Whether people who are being dismissive of those with long term concerns are doing so because they just think that the 'now' is more important, believe that the rest will sort itself out once we're promoted, whether they're just trying to win an argument online, whether they just want to appear to be a 'better supporter' than those who aren't happy, or whatever else their motivation for ignoring the issues presented by Warne's ongoing tenure, I'm not (except in one or two instances) really sure.

We might, and I stress might, be able to achieve promotion this season. But quite frankly so what if we do? What is that supposed to prove? Promotion is the bare minimum outcome for Warne to even come close to being considered a success as Derby manager.  It's no great achievement if it comes at the cost of an almost total neglect of any other aspects of the club's progression, and pretty worthless if we find ourselves back down here in 2 years time. History tells us that's the most likely outcome, especially if Warne's methods haven't developed beyond what they were when he was at Rotherham.

The longer he is here the more I feel we're wasting time, and the further away I feel from us being able to take advantage of the opportunity we had to build properly. The more we become a Warne team the more we seem to become a League One team, but not a more modern, forward thinking one, an old fashioned horrible one.

However, if he gets us up and keeps us up while giving or academy graduates at least some meaningful game time (something he is currently averse to doing) then he'll have proved me exceedingly wrong. I still hope for that, but I don't believe for a second that he is capable of the improvement necessary to make it happen. Time will tell - the owner of the club clearly has a lot more faith in him than I do, I just hope he's right and I'm wrong.

Edited November 20, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

What's wrong with the one's we've got in the Academy?

I bet Sibley feels lile he has had his nose pushed out of place, now he is no longer the saviour and instead its some other youngsters that our fans have watched for 90 minutes!