Glass half full!

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

The aim shouldn’t be to make the playoffs, that’s the point - it should be to make the top 2. I agree if we were in this position last season, in a much tougher position where top 6 was the aim, but the quality this season is god awful, and we should be comfortably top 2 come the seasons end.

If we gave managers a full season like you suggest we have to, we’d have left Nigel Pearson in charge and got relegated in 2017. Sounds like a great plan.

Of course that's the aim but might not necessarily the target that Clowes has set Warne.

Not sure why you think we should be comfortably in the top 2, what are you basing that on? We finished 7th last season and lost our best player.

The Pearson comparison is ridiculous, he has us sat in the bottom 3, not one place outside the play offs.

[G STAR RAM]

59 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The point is that we've not been good enough to be a playoff side with a third of the season up, clearly highlighting the need for plenty of improvement. It's a valid discussion to have is it not? 

If we win our game in hand we are in the play off places?

Of course its a vaild discussion though but I don't see many of the Warne Out Brigade wanting to listen to any mitigating factors being mentioned, just moving the goalposts time after time and attacking something else.

[Tamworthram]

37 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

The point is we SHOULD be as dominant as them this season in this league. As I’ve emphasised many times, it’s truly f****** awful. The gap between this and the championship is huge. It’s probably the worst league one in years, we absolutely should be dominating it with the quality at our disposal.

That’s your opinion and there are clearly some poor teams (some of whom we haven’t performed well against) but, whilst there are teams like Bolton, Barnsley and Portsmouth in the league I don’t think we can really expect to dominate as easily as you seem to think.

[Andicis]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

If we win our game in hand we are in the play off places?

Of course its a vaild discussion though but I don't see many of the Warne Out Brigade wanting to listen to any mitigating factors being mentioned, just moving the goalposts time after time and attacking something else.

Depends who you consider the "Warne Out Brigade", if you meant that to be me, I defended Warne the other night and have tried to be fairly balanced with my posting about him. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

43 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

The point is we SHOULD be as dominant as them this season in this league. As I’ve emphasised many times, it’s truly f****** awful. The gap between this and the championship is huge. It’s probably the worst league one in years, we absolutely should be dominating it with the quality at our disposal.

How many seasons did you regularly watch League One matches prior to us being in the division out of interest?

Just wondering what you are basing your opinion on.

 

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Depends who you consider the "Warne Out Brigade", if you meant that to be me, I defended Warne the other night and have tried to be fairly balanced with my posting about him. 

No, I don't have you as one of them to be fair. Your opinions have not really registered on my radar so dont really know what your thoughts are.

[Millenniumram]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Of course that's the aim but might not necessarily the target that Clowes has set Warne.

Not sure why you think we should be comfortably in the top 2, what are you basing that on? We finished 7th last season and lost our best player.

The Pearson comparison is ridiculous, he has us sat in the bottom 3, not one place outside the play offs.

It’s clearly not the target he’s set Warne, otherwise he wouldn’t still be here. My argument is that Clowes is being too lenient and top two SHOULD be the target.

We underperformed last season as well (due to poor management), so can’t really use that as a barometer. Agree we lost our best player in McGoldrick (may not have done with a different manager in charge), but we still had a healthy budget and brought in numerous players with Championship experience. Coupled with a much weaker division without Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday, and I can’t see two teams who should be expecting to finish above us.

[Comrade 86]

[Millenniumram]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

How many seasons did you regularly watch League One matches prior to us being in the division out of interest?

Just wondering what you are basing your opinion on.

 

I’ve seen enough of league one over the past two seasons to know the quality in it is absolutely dire. And it’s even worse this season compared to last season.

What it was like before we were in it isn’t particularly relevant anyway. The point is it’s f****** dreadful right now, and it’s getting worse. I’d be very surprised if it’s been this bad in the last 10 years based on the difference between this season and last season.

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s clearly not the target he’s set Warne, otherwise he wouldn’t still be here. My argument is that Clowes is being too lenient and top two SHOULD be the target.

We underperformed last season as well (due to poor management), so can’t really use that as a barometer. Agree we lost our best player in McGoldrick (may not have done with a different manager in charge), but we still had a healthy budget and brought in numerous players with Championship experience. Coupled with a much weaker division without Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday, and I can’t see two teams who should be expecting to finish above us.

I’d be surprised if top 2 wasn’t the “target” but that isn’t necessarily the same as a minimum acceptable level, which failure to achieve could result in dismissal. Failure to achieve a target doesn’t always have to result in getting the sack. 

[Millenniumram]

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

That’s your opinion and there are clearly some poor teams (some of whom we haven’t performed well against) but, whilst there are teams like Bolton, Barnsley and Portsmouth in the league I don’t think we can really expect to dominate as easily as you seem to think.

None of them should be as good as us. We have more than enough quality to outperform them, even if they are better than the rest of the crap in this league. In any case, it’s not even the games against those that are costing us, it’s games against the likes of Stevenage and Shrewsbury that are.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s clearly not the target he’s set Warne, otherwise he wouldn’t still be here. My argument is that Clowes is being too lenient and top two SHOULD be the target.

We underperformed last season as well (due to poor management), so can’t really use that as a barometer. Agree we lost our best player in McGoldrick (may not have done with a different manager in charge), but we still had a healthy budget and brought in numerous players with Championship experience. Coupled with a much weaker division without Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday, and I can’t see two teams who should be expecting to finish above us.

Has McGoldrick said he may have stayed with a different manager or is that just another thing you've made up?

Bolton are further along their rebuilding project.

Oxford spent well over the summer.

Barnsley unlucky not to get promoted last season. 

Why should we definitely be finishing above these 3 teams? Because we get crowds over 25,000?

I'm sure there are plenty of teams in the division that have played more than 16 games together too so have a more cohesive unit. 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I’ve seen enough of league one over the past two seasons to know the quality in it is absolutely dire. And it’s even worse this season compared to last season.

What it was like before we were in it isn’t particularly relevant anyway. The point is it’s f****** dreadful right now, and it’s getting worse. I’d be very surprised if it’s been this bad in the last 10 years based on the difference between this season and last season.

You said 'its probably the worst League One in years'. So are you admitting that this is now just hyperbole, to try and make your view look more plausible, that is based on nothing?

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

If we win our game in hand we are in the play off places?

Of course its a vaild discussion though but I don't see many of the Warne Out Brigade wanting to listen to any mitigating factors being mentioned, just moving the goalposts time after time and attacking something else.

Those goal posts have never moved since day 1. The concerns since the day he was appointed were: style of play, use of academy players, retaining academy graduates, risk to the 'feel good factor' around the club. The pattern (in particular this season) has been for one or two of those concerns to appear addressed, only for us to take a backwards step in the next game.

Whilst results are ultimately all that matter, all those other little bits buy the manager more time when results aren't going too well. Warne's performance as manager can be described as "bare minimum" to stay in the job, and he his given himself no safety net to rely on when we do have a bad run.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

What did you think towards the end of last season when we 'failed' to get into the Top 6. No-one thought that was going to happen - there's a 'promote us now' thread sunk somewhere on the board.

We all assume that won't happen again, but where is the evidence to support that? Sales of rose-tinted glasses are soaring, is that it? 😉 😄

What did I think, A shrug of the shoulders and no big deal, I purposely missed the last 4/5 home games, The football was dreadful...imo, Nothing I can say that's not already been said.

Assuming is what we all do, I assume I'll wake up in the Morning...but you never know 😁, There was a time when we were on that run of 16/18 games unbeaten posters thought 2nd place was on, Definitely play offs 🙄 but Derby do what DCFC are good at...kill the hope, 

I'll be at PP for the Wycombe game...ticket purchased...why? too many bangs on the head I guess 😇 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Those goal posts have never moved since day 1. The concerns since the day he was appointed were: style of play, use of academy players, retaining academy graduates, risk to the 'feel good factor' around the club. The pattern (in particular this season) has been for one or two of those concerns to appear addressed, only for us to take a backwards step in the next game.

Whilst results are ultimately all that matter, all those other little bits buy the manager more time when results aren't going too well. Warne's performance as manager can be described as "bare minimum" to stay in the job, and he his given himself no safety net to rely on when we do have a bad run.

You have a different recollection of events to me.

Style of play is the only thing that I remember being a concern.

Happy to take your word on the rest though. 

 

[Tamworthram]

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s clearly not the target he’s set Warne, otherwise he wouldn’t still be here. My argument is that Clowes is being too lenient and top two SHOULD be the target.

We underperformed last season as well (due to poor management), so can’t really use that as a barometer. Agree we lost our best player in McGoldrick (may not have done with a different manager in charge), but we still had a healthy budget and brought in numerous players with Championship experience. Coupled with a much weaker division without Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday, and I can’t see two teams who should be expecting to finish above us.

There was a full page interview with McGoldrick in yesterday’s Daily Mail that starts with “David McGoldrick always promised himself he would one day return to Notts County”. I imagine he knew time was running out for him especially if he wanted to make a meaningful contribution and go out in style rather than just limping to the end of his career. So, I suspect it wouldn’t have made any difference who the Derby manager was at that time.

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You have a different recollection of events to me.

Style of play is the only thing that I remember being a concern.

Happy to take your word on the rest though. 

 

I can't be bothered to look further back, but here is my own post after only 1 month of Warne being manager, highlighting the concerns.

 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

There was a full page interview with McGoldrick in yesterday’s Daily Mail that starts with “David McGoldrick always promised himself he would one day return to Notts County”. I imagine he knew time was running out for him especially if he wanted to make a meaningful contribution and go out in style rather than just limping to the end of his career. So, I suspect it wouldn’t have made any difference who the Derby manager was at that time.

Yes but, to be fair, you're basing that on well known facts rather than just making things up as another stick to beat Warne with.

[Millenniumram]

18 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I’d be surprised if top 2 wasn’t the “target” but that isn’t necessarily the same as a minimum acceptable level, which failure to achieve could result in dismissal. Failure to achieve a target doesn’t always have to result in getting the sack. 

I get your point, but I’d then argue that a “minimum acceptable level” should be promotion by any means - be it playoffs or Top Two. Do we look like achieving that under Paul Warne? In my opinion we do not, and he should be dismissed whilst there’s still them for another manager to achieve that.