The Paul Warne Poll

[Ghost of Clough]

53 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

I don't get how you can really vote on this without QUESTIONING  our savour Mr Clowes where the best budget for a league 1 club has gone . 

I'm not asking to blow money just simply spend what you said we had . Not one fee has been paid yet , its shocking we could only offer a £5 note for the Sheffield wed striker !. You can't pass me off in higher wages blah blah . 

How the hell can you moan at Warne when he has so far spent a 2 pence piece and an old rusty bottle top . 

It's our Knight in shining armour mr clowes that needs to come out and explain what Warne is working with !! . 

For me Warne is one of the most straight forward heart on his sleeve blokes I have ever seen manage the rams , as a person I really like him . Although I find it hard to ignore the face he pulled the other year when we stayed up , that I'm hoping deep down was all about our former chairman . So I've voted end of season for simple reason on evidence so far warnes budget is SHOCKING , REMEMBER we have set our own budget which is below the efl's limits , this is what was said . 

 

I'm also irritated by daft statements about we should be happy with a point from the likes of Peterborough,  Bolton etc etc .........Jesus how far have we fell down ......We are DERBY BLOODY COUNTY for gods sake ....every team should be fearing us in this crap division . If anything last Saturday shows how EASY  it is to get out of this division with a little steel and quality over to you MR CLOWES  to at last show us the budget YOU SAID WE HAD !!

We haven't had the best budget in the league. Last season we were somewhere between 3rd and 6th, whilst this season, we'll be somewhere in the top 6 again, with Charlton potentially in top spot.

Clowes doesn't need to come our to clarify anything. He has already publocly stated that we have a decent budget, one which is good enough to get promoted.

We could have spent some money on transfer fees, but Warne has opted no to because he sees more value in putting that money towards wages.

[alram]

it would be nice for some transparency though, you do feel they are using the business plan to hide behind at the minute, we have received loads of fees & restrictions have been apparently reduced yet our spending seems even more restricted. it’s clear this squad needs investment not more money put into older players on big wages, we need long term project players

Edited August 28, 2023 by alram

[BOB BIGGS]

I think DC has referred to a 5 year plan previously. Presumably, he hopes we will be established in the Championship before that but perhaps it’s an indication of where we are financially. 
 

I continue to be totally appreciative of his decision to save the Club and am fully supportive of him. 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, NottsRammy said:

I don't get how you can really vote on this without QUESTIONING  our savour Mr Clowes where the best budget for a league 1 club has gone . 

I'm not asking to blow money just simply spend what you said we had . Not one fee has been paid yet , its shocking we could only offer a £5 note for the Sheffield wed striker !. You can't pass me off in higher wages blah blah . 

How the hell can you moan at Warne when he has so far spent a 2 pence piece and an old rusty bottle top . 

It's our Knight in shining armour mr clowes that needs to come out and explain what Warne is working with !! . 

For me Warne is one of the most straight forward heart on his sleeve blokes I have ever seen manage the rams , as a person I really like him . Although I find it hard to ignore the face he pulled the other year when we stayed up , that I'm hoping deep down was all about our former chairman . So I've voted end of season for simple reason on evidence so far warnes budget is SHOCKING , REMEMBER we have set our own budget which is below the efl's limits , this is what was said . 

 

I'm also irritated by daft statements about we should be happy with a point from the likes of Peterborough,  Bolton etc etc .........Jesus how far have we fell down ......We are DERBY BLOODY COUNTY for gods sake ....every team should be fearing us in this crap division . If anything last Saturday shows how EASY  it is to get out of this division with a little steel and quality over to you MR CLOWES  to at last show us the budget YOU SAID WE HAD !!

As far as I can see we have employed a manager proven to work well with a small budget ,small club winning 3 promotions from the division we are in and are giving him a budget that competes with the top budgets in the division and are hopefully going down the route of building a value for money team to get promotion rather than a blow the rest out of the water budget which we’ve seen comes with no garuantee s and very high risk , to me that’s clearly what I hear clowes and warne saying, I see no underhand misleading statements 🤷🏻‍♂️

im ok with that , I really don’t want another edge of going out of existence situation for derby , they are a massive part of my life 

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, NottsRammy said:

I don't get how you can really vote on this without QUESTIONING  our savour Mr Clowes where the best budget for a league 1 club has gone . 

I'm not asking to blow money just simply spend what you said we had . Not one fee has been paid yet , its shocking we could only offer a £5 note for the Sheffield wed striker !. You can't pass me off in higher wages blah blah . 

How the hell can you moan at Warne when he has so far spent a 2 pence piece and an old rusty bottle top . 

It's our Knight in shining armour mr clowes that needs to come out and explain what Warne is working with !! . 

For me Warne is one of the most straight forward heart on his sleeve blokes I have ever seen manage the rams , as a person I really like him . Although I find it hard to ignore the face he pulled the other year when we stayed up , that I'm hoping deep down was all about our former chairman . So I've voted end of season for simple reason on evidence so far warnes budget is SHOCKING , REMEMBER we have set our own budget which is below the efl's limits , this is what was said . 

 

I'm also irritated by daft statements about we should be happy with a point from the likes of Peterborough,  Bolton etc etc .........Jesus how far have we fell down ......We are DERBY BLOODY COUNTY for gods sake ....every team should be fearing us in this crap division . If anything last Saturday shows how EASY  it is to get out of this division with a little steel and quality over to you MR CLOWES  to at last show us the budget YOU SAID WE HAD !!

At no point did he say we had the best budget for league 1. He never said what we had in terms of £. We have no idea what proportion has been spent on wages rather than fees. How do you know how the budget was set and why? How do you know what costs are still coming out as part of the rebuild from administration? What teams publish detailed budgets to fans? Mr Clowes does not have to explain anything. 

You ask how far we have fallen down - well not as much as we could have done following MM's ownership of the club and how he left us. Did you think we would just rock up in League 1 and all teams would truly be terrified of us and roll over rather than all want to win against us, the big fish? If its that easy to get out strange it took the likes our neighbours, Sunderland, Ipswich so long to regroup and do it.

Strange you only voted until the end of the season given your thoughts on Warne, Budget and our saviour. I voted "not even questioning" the final option by the way before I am accused of being anti Warne realising its not quite so easy to get out considering our position from admin

[Archied]

21 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

At no point did he say we had the best budget for league 1. He never said what we had in terms of £. We have no idea what proportion has been spent on wages rather than fees. How do you know how the budget was set and why? How do you know what costs are still coming out as part of the rebuild from administration? What teams publish detailed budgets to fans? Mr Clowes does not have to explain anything. 

You ask how far we have fallen down - well not as much as we could have done following MM's ownership of the club and how he left us. Did you think we would just rock up in League 1 and all teams would truly be terrified of us and roll over rather than all want to win against us, the big fish? If its that easy to get out strange it took the likes our neighbours, Sunderland, Ipswich so long to regroup and do it.

Strange you only voted until the end of the season given your thoughts on Warne, Budget and our saviour. I voted "not even questioning" the final option by the way before I am accused of being anti Warne realising its not quite so easy to get out considering our position from admin

Agree with the above , I voted end of season review but should clarify that by no means am I saying if we don’t go up warne should go , if we don’t go up but things look to be progressing well on the field and off it with the club getting healthier I would probably want warne to carry on building 🤷🏻‍♂️

[ram59]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We haven't had the best budget in the league. Last season we were somewhere between 3rd and 6th, whilst this season, we'll be somewhere in the top 6 again, with Charlton potentially in top spot.

 

Well that ended well for Charlton.

 

[May Contain Nuts]

It's not just this year's budget we need to think about, it's funding the club for the next however many years Clowes is here.

We already have a budget to cover this season's running costs. We already have a budget set aside for our wage bill / transfers.

Anything coming in is extra money, which we can choose to spend, or not spend, how we wish. The budgets already set are unaffected, the playing budget still 'good enough for promotion' regardless.

Anything we don't spend can be put toward making next year's budget larger. If we go up and want to compete at Championship level it will (theoretically) help us secure 'better' players to aid in that.

It's been said (I think?) that the money we've received from transfer fees has 'gone toward the running costs of the club'.

Clowes will have plans for the club as a whole and things he hasn't been able to implement yet due to some lingering after-effects of administration.

If the playing budget is already good enough for promotion and the chairman believes in the manager's ability to achieve that, and is happy with the timeframes, then why 'waste' it on transfers we might not need to make when it could be put toward further improvements in the infrastructure of the club which will (hopefully) benefit us for years to come?

 

(and to sort of bring it on topic, if he has doubts about the manager he's hardly going to chuck the extra money his way, is he?)

Edited August 28, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[FlyBritishMidland]

43 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

At no point did he say we had the best budget for league 1. He never said what we had in terms of £. We have no idea what proportion has been spent on wages rather than fees. How do you know how the budget was set and why? How do you know what costs are still coming out as part of the rebuild from administration? What teams publish detailed budgets to fans? Mr Clowes does not have to explain anything. 

You ask how far we have fallen down - well not as much as we could have done following MM's ownership of the club and how he left us. Did you think we would just rock up in League 1 and all teams would truly be terrified of us and roll over rather than all want to win against us, the big fish? If its that easy to get out strange it took the likes our neighbours, Sunderland, Ipswich so long to regroup and do it.

Strange you only voted until the end of the season given your thoughts on Warne, Budget and our saviour. I voted "not even questioning" the final option by the way before I am accused of being anti Warne realising its not quite so easy to get out considering our position from admin

Agree with what you’ve said.  I sometimes think the effect of administration and relegation is forgotten about and how big a job it is to rebuild essentially the entire club.  Mr Clowes has talked about being established in the Championship in 5 years.  It’s important that we’re ready to avoid yo-yo-ing.

Not Warne related but I watched “The Fall and Rise of Luton Town” on Sky at the weekend.  They were deducted 30 points and dropped out of the EFL to the then conference.  It took them 5 seasons to get back.  The CEO’s view was interesting as he said they wanted to bounce straight back but in hindsight they benefited from it taking longer.  Similar thing, they had to rebuild from scratch and it took longer than they’d anticipated but when they did go back up the club as a whole was ready.  Well worth a watch if you like your football documentaries.

 

[hintonsboots]

DC definitely stated that our transfer budget for 2023/4 is good enough to get promoted. Apart from that statement, everything written on this forum, re the EFL Business plan, how much of the budget has already been splashed on wages etc is complete guesswork and I should think Pearce and Clowes are pissing themselves at some of the attempts at Heath Robinson accountancy.

[duncanjwitham]

2 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

How the hell can you moan at Warne when he has so far spent a 2 pence piece and an old rusty bottle top . 

It's our Knight in shining armour mr clowes that needs to come out and explain what Warne is working with !! . 

For me Warne is one of the most straight forward heart on his sleeve blokes I have ever seen manage the rams , as a person I really like him . Although I find it hard to ignore the face he pulled the other year when we stayed up , that I'm hoping deep down was all about our former chairman . So I've voted end of season for simple reason on evidence so far warnes budget is SHOCKING , REMEMBER we have set our own budget which is below the efl's limits , this is what was said . 

Putting aside the discussion of what the actual budget is, one of the biggest arguments I have against Warne is how badly he uses what assets he does have at his disposal.  If we are under a restricted budget, the onus should be on the manager to get the best out of the players and budget he can.  Instead, we have the half the squad playing in positions they can't handle, a bunch of new signings that don't seem capable of doing the jobs they were signed for, and an ever-expanding injury list.  Most of which were apparently running themes at Rotherham too.  (Obviously I'm not blaming Warne for all the injuries, but he has a reputation for over-working players, we do seem to be picking up a lot of soft tissue injuries again.)

And for the record, I voted out leave immediately, although I would have gone for "should never have been appointed" had that been an option.  Nothing I've in the last season has changed my mind.

[i-Ram]

3 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

I don't get how you can really vote on this without QUESTIONING  our savour Mr Clowes where the best budget for a league 1 club has gone . 

I'm not asking to blow money just simply spend what you said we had . Not one fee has been paid yet , its shocking we could only offer a £5 note for the Sheffield wed striker !. You can't pass me off in higher wages blah blah . 

How the hell can you moan at Warne when he has so far spent a 2 pence piece and an old rusty bottle top . 

It's our Knight in shining armour mr clowes that needs to come out and explain what Warne is working with !! . 

For me Warne is one of the most straight forward heart on his sleeve blokes I have ever seen manage the rams , as a person I really like him . Although I find it hard to ignore the face he pulled the other year when we stayed up , that I'm hoping deep down was all about our former chairman . So I've voted end of season for simple reason on evidence so far warnes budget is SHOCKING , REMEMBER we have set our own budget which is below the efl's limits , this is what was said . 

 

I'm also irritated by daft statements about we should be happy with a point from the likes of Peterborough,  Bolton etc etc .........Jesus how far have we fell down ......We are DERBY BLOODY COUNTY for gods sake ....every team should be fearing us in this crap division . If anything last Saturday shows how EASY  it is to get out of this division with a little steel and quality over to you MR CLOWES  to at last show us the budget YOU SAID WE HAD !!

 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

Putting aside the discussion of what the actual budget is, one of the biggest arguments I have against Warne is how badly he uses what assets he does have at his disposal.  If we are under a restricted budget, the onus should be on the manager to get the best out of the players and budget he can.  Instead, we have the half the squad playing in positions they can't handle, a bunch of new signings that don't seem capable of doing the jobs they were signed for, and an ever-expanding injury list.  Most of which were apparently running themes at Rotherham too.  (Obviously I'm not blaming Warne for all the injuries, but he has a reputation for over-working players, we do seem to be picking up a lot of soft tissue injuries again.)

And for the record, I voted out leave immediately, although I would have gone for "should never have been appointed" had that been an option.  Nothing I've in the last season has changed my mind.

Well, despite all his inherent faults, he's managed to get us to 1 point off automatic after 5 games.

Maybe "a bunch of new signings that don't seem capable of doing the jobs they were signed for" could be changed to "a bunch of new signings, some of which had a couple of bad performances getting used to a new team".

Maybe "we have the half the squad playing in positions they can't handle" could be changed to "some players look more suited to playing in a 4-4-2 rather than his preferred 3-5-2, and he seems to be moving back to the former."

I think 5 games is probably to early to deem that he has failed "the onus should be on the manager to get the best out of the players and budget he can." The two latest signings have hardly even played yet. Let's give them one more sub appearance at Bolton before we start the booing. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by ariotofmyown

[duncanjwitham]

7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Well, despite all his inherent faults, he's managed to get us to 1 point off automatic after 5 games.

Maybe "a bunch of new signings that don't seem capable of doing the jobs they were signed for" could be changed to "a bunch of new signings, some of which had a couple of bad performances getting used to a new team".

Maybe "we have the half the squad playing in positions they can't handle" could be changed to "some players look more suited to playing in a 4-4-2 rather than his preferred 3-5-2, and he seems to be moving back to the former."

I think 5 games is probably to early to deem that he has failed "the onus should be on the manager to get the best out of the players and budget he can." The two latest signings have hardly even played yet. Let's give them one more sub appearance at Bolton before we start the booing. 

Almost half the league (11 teams, 12 if you don't include Wigan's points deduction) are within 1 point of the automatics, so I hardly think that's a massive endorsement. 

If you're on a restricted budget (or even if you're not, really), you can't afford to spend the entire summer and preseason recruiting for and practicing a back 3, and then have to change it after 4 games.  We've currently got Bradley and Elder sat twiddling their thumbs on the bench - 2 of the most high profile summer signings, who were specifically signed for that 352.  Smith and Hourihane are trying to play like box-to-box midfielders when they're both the wrong side of 30.  We had Bird and NML stuck as some sort of inside forwards for 4 games, Cashin near enough playing left back.  None of that screams making the best use of what you have available.  And it's not just 5 games, this was going on for all of last season under Warne too.  Seemingly no interest in getting the best out of players, no interest in playing to players strengths, just chuck a bunch of players in a formation and hope it works.

[Andicis]

5 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

I don't get how you can really vote on this without QUESTIONING  our savour Mr Clowes where the best budget for a league 1 club has gone . 

For the record, nobody has **ever** said this, and it's only people with poor reading comprehension that think it was said. 

[Andicis]

18 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Almost half the league (11 teams, 12 if you don't include Wigan's points deduction) are within 1 point of the automatics, so I hardly think that's a massive endorsement. 

If you're on a restricted budget (or even if you're not, really), you can't afford to spend the entire summer and preseason recruiting for and practicing a back 3, and then have to change it after 4 games.  We've currently got Bradley and Elder sat twiddling their thumbs on the bench - 2 of the most high profile summer signings, who were specifically signed for that 352.  Smith and Hourihane are trying to play like box-to-box midfielders when they're both the wrong side of 30.  We had Bird and NML stuck as some sort of inside forwards for 4 games, Cashin near enough playing left back.  None of that screams making the best use of what you have available.  And it's not just 5 games, this was going on for all of last season under Warne too.  Seemingly no interest in getting the best out of players, no interest in playing to players strengths, just chuck a bunch of players in a formation and hope it works.

Yes, agreed. However given some of the catastrophising on here, you would think we were a long way adrift at the bottom. It's useful mentioning that we're close to the top to highlight the ridiculousness of some of the posting in here after the first couple of weeks.

Elder and Bradley are entirely capable of playing in a 4. You state those players were specifically signed for a 3-5-2, has Warne ever suggested he was only going to play 3-5-2? Isn't there an entirely credible line of thinking that he was probably also considering 4 at the back for specific games if needed. 

Finally, I don't think Warne is just "chucking players in a formation and hoping it works". He has probably tried a lot of these formations and ways of playing in training, and it then hasn't worked in the match. And then he switched shapes to reflect this, and of course you'll write it off as him getting lucky or whichever dismissive line to choose to use, however he is adapting to do exactly what you claim he doesn't - to get the best from the players he has. 

[i-Ram]

Time to close this thread/poll methinks. The truth is Warne is the human equivalent of Marmite. Nothing really to be gained keeping this going at the mo. Tastes aren’t going to immediately change. Will be interesting to run it again at the end of October. 

[duncanjwitham]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Elder and Bradley are entirely capable of playing in a 4. You state those players were specifically signed for a 3-5-2, has Warne ever suggested he was only going to play 3-5-2? Isn't there an entirely credible line of thinking that he was probably also considering 4 at the back for specific games if needed. 

Finally, I don't think Warne is just "chucking players in a formation and hoping it works". He has probably tried a lot of these formations and ways of playing in training, and it then hasn't worked in the match. And then he switched shapes to reflect this, and of course you'll write it off as him getting lucky or whichever dismissive line to choose to use, however he is adapting to do exactly what you claim he doesn't - to get the best from the players he has. 

It's pretty obvious he really wants to mainly play a back 3 - we used it as soon as he took over, we switched back to it several times last season, we played it all through preseason and started the first 4 games of the season in it. And you don't go and make 2 of your highest profile summer signings just to play in a system you want for the odd game - those 2 were clearly signed to play in that 352 system IMO.

I think Elder is definitely more suited to a back 4, that's really all he's ever played in, so if we stay with the back 4, he should be okay. But I don't have any faith that Warne doesn't just go back to a 3 as soon as he can.  The issue with Bradley isn't really due to a 3 or a 4, it's making sure his lack of pace and slight lack of composure doesn't get exposed.  That back 3 we started in was dreadful for that because half the time he was stood on his own in 20 yards of space.  That happens less in a back 4, but if we are set on playing gas-out football with everyone bombing forward and back again, he will always get exposed to some degree in any system.

When we reverted to a back 4 early-ish on last season, Warne made it very clear on Radio Derby that he didn't think the formation mattered that much. His words were pretty much "I pick 11 players that I think can win us the game and fit them into a formation somehow".  So I'm going to take him at his word that that's what he's doing.  

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

When we reverted to a back 4 early-ish on last season, Warne made it very clear on Radio Derby that he didn't think the formation mattered that much. His words were pretty much "I pick 11 players that I think can win us the game and fit them into a formation somehow".  So I'm going to take him at his word that that's what he's doing.  

You are taking a quote that seems like a self deprecating joke at face value?

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's pretty obvious he really wants to mainly play a back 3 - we used it as soon as he took over, we switched back to it several times last season, we played it all through preseason and started the first 4 games of the season in it. And you don't go and make 2 of your highest profile summer signings just to play in a system you want for the odd game - those 2 were clearly signed to play in that 352 system IMO.

I agree that he would like to play a 3 at the back formation, however it isn't like he signed players that are exclusively for that formation and can't be adapted to play in another way. Especially with Elder which you reference him previously exclusively playing in a back 4. Therefore it seems an odd critique to say he bought players specifically for a formation they can't play when you acknowledge yourself with Elder that they can certainly play in a different formation. 

[duncanjwitham]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

You are taking a quote that seems like a self deprecating joke at face value?

It definitely wasn't a joke, it was a direct response to a question about the change in formation.  He made it very clear that he didn't believe formations really mattered that much.  And it's not like I'm going purely on that, literally everything he's done while he's been here has backed it up.

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I agree that he would like to play a 3 at the back formation, however it isn't like he signed players that are exclusively for that formation and can't be adapted to play in another way. Especially with Elder which you reference him previously exclusively playing in a back 4. Therefore it seems an odd critique to say he bought players specifically for a formation they can't play when you acknowledge yourself with Elder that they can certainly play in a different formation. 

That's the whole point though.  If we're supposedly restricted on what we can spend, you can't be going out and spending presumably decent wages on Elder, when he struggles to play in the formation you want to use as your main formation for the season.