The Paul Warne Poll

[Millenniumram]

Wonder what option I voted for 

[Gerry Daly]

For me the poll shows that less than 20% of respondents doesn’t see that there is an issue with the performance of the manager

[FlyBritishMidland]

8 hours ago, sage said:

That's an optimistic view. Reviewing the manager as Xmas is negative, just not as negative as others.

Or is it positive, just not as positive as others?

[RoyMac5]

9 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

It's always going to be a reason for poor performance until we are no longer under a business plan. 

I bet our business plan is better than most of the other teams finances in this league!

[Foreveram]

I’m off to a funeral today, that should lift the mood after being on here.

[FlyBritishMidland]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Under Clough, I recall the arguments made against him were the quality of entertainment, and not advancing quick enough. Both appeared to be there in 13/14, which is why so many were surprised at his sacking at the time. I think Rush was later quoted as saying he didn't realise what a good job Clough was actually doing. Clough, under the ownership of GSE, was judged against a bottom 6 Championship budget and exceeded expectations.
The main difference between Clough and Warne is one built foundations and steadily improved on them, whilst also introducing a number of youngsters to the first team.

Clough academy debutants: O'Brien, Mendy, Mills, Connolly, Ball, Atkins, Hendrick, Severn, Hughes, Bennett, Gjokaj, Hoganson
Warne academy debutants: DBrown

Clough permanent signings u27: Porter, Barker, Moxey, Buxton, Pringle, Croft, DMartin, Brayford, Bailey, Doyle, Cywka, Ward, Bryson, Maguire, Fielding, Legzdins, Robinson, Naylor, Sammon, Keogh, Jacobs, Coutts, Freeman, Russell, Forsyth, CMartin
Warne permanent signings u27: Wilson

You’re not comparing like with like.  Clough had around 4.5 years, Warne’s not had one yet.  Clough could spend, Warne can’t, or at least unless he sells 1 or 2.  Clough didn’t have EFL restrictions, Warne does or did which severely hampered him in January.  Clough didn’t have to build from bottom up, Warne (or maybe more DC) does.  Clough had an academy to pick from, Warne doesn’t as it was largely decimated due to Mel.  Clough had the opposite problem to Warne of an oversize squad, Warne needs bodies.  Warne hasn’t had a full summer transfer window yet.

I agree about foundations but I do think circumstances play into that a bit and a lot of is required to lay the foundations.  In his pre-match press interview last week when discussing transfers he discussed Mark Thomas is planning transfer for next summer and the one after that.  Maybe that’s when we’ll see som gems unearthed.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I agree about foundations but I do think circumstances play into that a bit and a lot of is required to lay the foundations.  In his pre-match press interview last week when discussing transfers he discussed Mark Thomas is planning transfer for next summer and the one after that.  Maybe that’s when we’ll see som gems unearthed.

That is forever though, a week is a long time in football. 

[Ghost of Clough]

27 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

You’re not comparing like with like.  Clough had around 4.5 years, Warne’s not had one yet.  Clough could spend, Warne can’t, or at least unless he sells 1 or 2.  Clough didn’t have EFL restrictions, Warne does or did which severely hampered him in January.  Clough didn’t have to build from bottom up, Warne (or maybe more DC) does.  Clough had an academy to pick from, Warne doesn’t as it was largely decimated due to Mel.  Clough had the opposite problem to Warne of an oversize squad, Warne needs bodies.  Warne hasn’t had a full summer transfer window yet.

I agree about foundations but I do think circumstances play into that a bit and a lot of is required to lay the foundations.  In his pre-match press interview last week when discussing transfers he discussed Mark Thomas is planning transfer for next summer and the one after that.  Maybe that’s when we’ll see som gems unearthed.

Clough had 231 games and almost 10 transfer windows in charge (joined part way through the first), whereas Warne has had 50 games and almost 2 complete transfer windows. Clough joined with an almost non-existent academy with the odd gem, Warne joined a decimated academy with A LOT of talent remaining.

Clough averaged 16.5 games per academy debut and 2.6 u27s per transfer window [I had missed a couple of debutants off my original list - Dudley and MHanson]
Warne has averaged 50 games per academy debut and 0.5 u27s per transfer window so far.

For a dose of reality, Clough's wage budget in the Championship wasn't too dissimilar to Warne's. The wage bill in Clough's final full season in charge was just £10.6m.

As you point out, Clough had a bloated squad, yet he still had the patience and long term vision to give youngsters games. Warne has the smallest squad (except for 21/22) since Clough was sacked, yet still can't give youngsters games.

[sage]

7 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Disagree. I would say it's "I'm up in the air about him", and I don't think that means they hold a negative opinion of him.

I'm personally Option 2.

If they are up in the air with him, they have a problem with him.

The default position is supporting your manager.

 

[Sparkle]

Not voted yet and will always give a manager a decent chance, but I haven’t been impressed with any of the players he has brought in or how he has intended to actually play the game of football.

His needs appear to be 

can someone run around a lot, can the ball be crossed a lot. 
Is the player a lovely chap, the player must be pre judged on personality and ability - especially irritating as he has clearly proved himself wrong far too often.

I think Ward is a decent player at wide right midfield but our whole side having to be co opted to suit him is plain nuts.

My biggest concern is that we are playing in the third division and I am hearing excuses which I don’t hear from other managers in this league and I see no real plan for the future with a view of being in the championship.

I still expect to Be promoted but I am not sure if that would be due to having this manager or no manager.

[sage]

2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Again, that’s your assumption. You don’t know what the thinking is of the people who’ve made the choice, you do know your own thinking and as you’re not happy with Warne, as you’ve made clear,  you have then attributed that same stance to other people’s decisions without their comment.

Some will share it, some won’t. They may have a problem with his performance, they may not, they may have a problem with his performance come Christmas, they may not. 
I realise there’s little point in my trying to argue for a little more objective thinking on the topic so will just concede. Whatever plays out we all essentially want the club’s success in the end, whether that’s with or without Paul Warne as the manager.

It's not related to my thoughts about Warne.

It's just that the default position of a fan is to support the manager, wanting to review in December makes it a reasonable assumption that they aren't happy with the performance but think he should have more time.

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, sage said:

It's not related to my thoughts about Warne.

It's just that the default position of a fan is to support the manager, wanting to review in December makes it a reasonable assumption that they aren't happy with the performance but think he should have more time.

Like I said, I concede. 

[sage]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Like I said, I concede. 

I apologise for explaining my thinking 

[TomTom92]

Talking about what Clough and Jim Smith is pointless to an extent because football has changed since both were at the helm.

Nowadays fans aren't patient, don't want to wait 4 years to see if a project does or does not come to fruition. Like it or not, the norm is for clubs to recycle managers every 2 years. 

Everyone has an opinion on Warne and as the poll shows more people are on his side than not. If he fails to get us up this year then he'll be judged on performances throughout the season, player development, transfer acumen and other factors i'm sure. 

I'm struggling to see how fans are happy to take 4 years to get promoted. Next year without restrictions is a must, but i can already see it now, DC will keep a tight grip on the purse strings and people will be defending our lack of killer instinct in the transfer market and on the pitch by saying we should be grateful because we nearly died.

Hopefully my Mystic Meg impression is incorrect and DC will back us enough to get us out of the league. But if this season is going to plan then i'm personally concerned. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

I apologise for explaining my thinking 

No need to apologise, I understand your thinking. I was suggesting a stance not to assume one way or the other, you’ve clarified your assumption. I accept your stance and your thinking and have an alternative perspective to yours.

[Curtains]

 

[Rample]

Way too soon. Knee jerk reactions a few games into a season. 

Of course results and performances have been mixed, and recruitment has been has been misguided at best, but after allowing Warne to build a team we should allow time for it to settle.

In simple terms Warne has got out of this decision 3 times out of 4 so he does know how.

Reminds me of Clement or Rowett in respect that nobody was over impressed with their style of play and there were obvious deficiancies in their abilities but Clement had got us into the top 2 and Rowett was steady-ish. It's not about every minute on the pitch, only the table matters. We can argue about other stuff when we're in the championship. 

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

As you point out, Clough had a bloated squad, yet he still had the patience and long term vision to give youngsters games. Warne has the smallest squad (except for 21/22) since Clough was sacked, yet still can't give youngsters games.

It's a sinful waste of potential resources at his immediate disposal. David Clowes should insist that in the international break, Warne and his coaching staff should sit down with the analysts and watch the videos of the of the 2021-22 season when a team of academy players mixed with what old heads we had left points wise avoided relegation from the Championship but couldn't bridge the impossible points penalty that forced us down. It might be an eye-opener for them but then do they have the coaching skills to follow a similar path? If they haven't they shouldn't have been brought here in the first place because the academy was always going to be important in our recovery and there is already players there who would be worth trying if Warne sees fit to give them a chance. But then again is what they have learned in the academy a good fit for the singular and limited style of play Warne wants? It's concerning.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Jayram]

11 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Nobody expects promotion, but expecting to compete on the pitch is more than reasonable.

Are you really happy that we saw less of the ball than Burton and Fleetwood? I'm not. It's anti football, and Derby fans won't stand for it. It'll be what costs Warne his job if he doesn't sort it.

Absolutely this. I cannot stand this ugly basic one dimensional s**** we are currently playing. If he is still here next summer and we are still in this division I won’t renew my ST because I just can’t face another season of this dross.

[Premier ram]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Wonder what option I voted for