Derby County - (Ridiculously) Early Thoughts on 2023/24

[Jimbo Ram]

5 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I’d like to think the staff at the club will process this disappointment promptly and move onto preparing for next season. My preferred list of priorities as of today would be something like;

1) Knowing which league we’re in next season and the financial situation that the senior figures at the club will speak with the EFL as soon as possible to agree whatever amendments they can to the business plan.

2) Get on with shaping the squad part 1 - extend the contracts of those who Warne wants to stay and confirm the departures of whoever is leaving on a free. I suspect we’ll try to re-sign McGoldrick and maybe Forsyth, can see Stearman retiring as a player, Curtis moving on either retiring or a season at Leyton Orient. We may end up selling one, some or all of Knight, Sibley, Bird, Cashin… provided there is interest in them and I fully expect Bielik will go.

3) Get on with shaping the squad part 2 - Sign Roberts and McGee on frees. Roberts has done well and is a good option (provided Brighton don’t offer an extension and he wants to stay). McGee hasn’t had much to do but based on his performances for FGR he is capable at this level and an able deputy for Wildsmith, gives some continuity in that position and would be relatively cheap wages I suspect.

4) Get on with shaping the squad part 3 - We’re led to believe from comments in the DET that some conversations about recruitment have already been happening with agents invited to attend training, let’s get some of those deals (whoever they are) over the line nice and early.

5) Season tickets and that

6) Sexy new kit announced

7) pre season tour of South Wales taking in Newport, Cardiff and Swansea for my own personal convenience.

That’s all I’ve got so far

Are you from 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 CR 🤔

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

Are you from 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 CR 🤔

I live in 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿, not telling you where though 👀 

[Jimbo Ram]

3 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I live in 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿, not telling you where though 👀 

Wouldn’t have a clue 😁

[OoooMarkWright]

We should have got top 6 so that is disappointing. I agree with @LeedsCityRam on that. Rosenior leaving when in 7th and us finishing 7th is failure I’m afraid. The league is poor bar the top 3, but we’ve not been quite good enough. 
Hopefully Wednesday go up, the league should be a lot weaker next year. It is a freak when 3 teams get over 96 points. We have to aim for top 2. Both ends of the pitch need improving. Big summer ahead, keep the main players and top 2 is doable. Promotion is a must next season, no excuses. 
 

Overall though, an enjoyable season. Great to have a club and the fans have been incredible. 

[Oldben]

12 hours ago, Addingham Ram said:

I fear you are right Odben.

Unless the efl loosen their grip, we'll struggle next year. This year's unbalanced squad will deteriorate. Any of our older players still here next year will be a year older and much as it pains me to say, Bird and Knight deserve to play higher up the league.

I hope Cashin stays, but I can see offers coming in for him.

One thing I don't want to see is any more Premier League loanees. I'd much rather look for out of contract Division One or Division Two players that fit Warne's player profile, young, athletic, and hopefully with a point to prove. They will also know the League, which I believe is very important.

 

12 hours ago, Addingham Ram said:

I fear you are right Odben.

Unless the efl loosen their grip, we'll struggle next year. This year's unbalanced squad will deteriorate. Any of our older players still here next year will be a year older and much as it pains me to say, Bird and Knight deserve to play higher up the league.

I hope Cashin stays, but I can see offers coming in for him.

One thing I don't want to see is any more Premier League loanees. I'd much rather look for out of contract Division One or Division Two players that fit Warne's player profile, young, athletic, and hopefully with a point to prove. They will also know the League, which I believe is very important.

I wanted to check which clubs had something sumilar to derby county and how it was similar, and my point is there were many instances when punishments were reduced, but that efl don't look like reducing ours. I know the topic has already been over discussed, which leads me to think that the efl simply dont care about how much harm they cause the fans, even when the root cause us the owner who goes unpunished and moves on. Leaving the fans to suffer from punishment handed out by the fans. This is from Chatgpt:

Some Derby County fans may consider their club's two-year transfer ban as unjust, especially when compared to other EFL punishments that have been reduced or weakened. The feeling of unfairness arises from the perception that the English Football League (EFL) has inconsistently applied its rules and sanctions, with certain clubs seemingly receiving more lenient treatment.

One notable example is Sheffield Wednesday, who initially received a 12-point deduction in the 2020-21 season for breaching EFL financial regulations. The club was found guilty of misconduct for including the sale of their Hillsborough Stadium in their 2017-18 accounts, despite the transaction not being completed until a later date. However, after an appeal, the EFL reduced the punishment to a 6-point deduction, taking into account the financial impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the club. This decision may have been perceived as more lenient by Derby County fans, especially in light of their own club's transfer ban.

Other examples of seemingly inconsistent EFL punishments include:

Birmingham City: In the 2018-19 season, Birmingham City was docked 9 points for breaching the EFL's profitability and sustainability rules. The club had exceeded the allowed losses of £39 million over a three-year period. Despite this significant breach, the punishment was not as severe as Derby County's transfer ban.

Bolton Wanderers: In the 2019-20 season, Bolton Wanderers faced a 12-point deduction and a transfer embargo due to financial issues and failure to fulfill fixtures. However, the club avoided further sanctions, and the EFL allowed them to start the 2020-21 season after new owners took over. This might be viewed as a more favorable outcome compared to Derby County's situation.

Macclesfield Town: The club faced multiple points deductions and fines during the 2019-20 season due to financial issues, late payment of wages, and failure to fulfill fixtures. However, these sanctions did not include a transfer ban.

Blackpool FC: In 2019, Blackpool faced a 12-point deduction after the club went into receivership. However, the EFL suspended the points deduction due to a change in ownership, which resolved the club's financial issues. This case might be seen as lenient compared to Derby County's situation.

Leeds United: In 2014, Leeds United received a temporary transfer embargo for breaching the EFL's Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules. The club had exceeded the permitted losses of £8 million for the 2013-14 season. The embargo was lifted after the club demonstrated that they had rectified the issue. This punishment might also be seen as more lenient than Derby County's transfer ban.

While each case has its own specific context and circumstances, the perception of inconsistency in EFL punishments may lead some Derby County fans to feel that their club has been treated unfairly. It is important to note that the EFL makes decisions based on the evidence and context available at the time, and there may be factors that are not apparent to the public. Nonetheless, the feeling of injustice among Derby County fans is likely fueled by these comparisons and the belief that their club's punishment is disproportionate to the offenses committed.

[Ambitious]

13 hours ago, Sparkle said:

If the likes of Knight and Bird receive decent offers you would expect the club to be looking to take the money so there are some difficult days coming in the next few months 

With all due respect to both of them, they’ve looked pretty expendable this season. They certainly don’t look out of place in League One based on what we’ve seen this year. 

[Anag Ram]

I’m curious to see who is prepared to come to Derby for next season.

Will Paul Warne convince decent players he is building something special? Can he convince them that 30,000 are going to turn up every week again for the dross offered in League One?

Are Derby seen as a club living on past glories but with a soft underbelly?

Not my views but certainly a perspective that could be held.

The club needs an overhaul. We have built up our young players but in truth they haven’t shone in the third tier. Cashin shows promise. Bird, Knight and certainly Sibley have been pretty average (and I’m a big Knight fan).

We need to build a team robust (and fit) enough for the physical challenge yet with the attacking prowess to survive in the league above. We know Warne can get teams promoted, but can he build something sustainable?

Another chapter begins. I hope I’m still young enough to enjoy the success when it comes 😊

 

[Sparkle]

15 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

With all due respect to both of them, they’ve looked pretty expendable this season. They certainly don’t look out of place in League One based on what we’ve seen this year. 

I know what you mean but they didn’t look out of place in the championship either which basically indicates that there isn’t much difference with the majority of the clubs in the two divisions 

[Mucker1884]

Someone posted yesterday along the lines of... "At least we now know what league we'll be in... hopefully the recruitment process will now swing into action, if it hasn't already started" type thing.

 

Does anyone know when this so-called EFL review of our financial restrictions is likely to be held, and ergo, when DCFC know precisely what limitations they will be up against this summer transfer window?  Is there a specific date?
Do we really have a few extra weeks head start over the play off teams, or are our hands still tied at this point?  🤷‍♂️

[Sparkle]

5 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Someone posted yesterday along the lines of... "At least we now know what league we'll be in... hopefully the recruitment process will now swing into action, if it hasn't already started" type thing.

 

Does anyone know when this so-called EFL review of our financial restrictions is likely to be held, and ergo, when DCFC know precisely what limitations they will be up against this summer transfer window?  Is there a specific date?
Do we really have a few extra weeks head start over the play off teams, or are our hands still tied at this point?  🤷‍♂️

I think that’s the end of Belick who needs to be sold if we can get any money for him as we probably still owe Arsenal upcoming instalments 

[DRBee]

Priority needs to be given to bringing in competent forwards. (Can we ditch Collins?)That was the most serious deficiency  not only of the last two transfer windows but also the previous season. Not saying it will be easy to achieve this but our goal scoring record has been poor. Bolton apart, all the teams above us did significantly better and interestingly of the teams below us only Charlton scored more goals.

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

8 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Someone posted yesterday along the lines of... "At least we now know what league we'll be in... hopefully the recruitment process will now swing into action, if it hasn't already started" type thing.

 

Does anyone know when this so-called EFL review of our financial restrictions is likely to be held, and ergo, when DCFC know precisely what limitations they will be up against this summer transfer window?  Is there a specific date?
Do we really have a few extra weeks head start over the play off teams, or are our hands still tied at this point?  🤷‍♂️

This was the clubs answer to a question at the most recent Supporters Group Meeting;

Derby County: In terms of the current season, we are ahead of the agreed Business Plan and there are no risks of a breach within this. The club made a submission to the EFL on 31st March which was a forecast to the end of the current season and the EFL continues to monitor our progress, as agreed. Decisions are still to be made on next season, but we remain in positive discussions with the EFL. We will continue to be under a Business Plan next season, which will obviously be divisional specific. However it will be one that we propose to the EFL and will be reviewed collectively in order that we can demonstrate that we are not being over-ambitious, which we aren’t being – we will be continuing to build in a progressive and sensible manner. Once we know what league we are in next year, we will discuss in more detail and seek approval. The club has very good relations with the EFL again and we also worked with them closely on the launch and feedback of the White Paper and expressed our support towards it.

It seems there’s a good dialogue between the club and the EFL so hopefully an agreement is reached promptly. 
I’d say we do have a couple of weeks head start now knowing which league we’re in. The club can agree extensions with any current players they want to retain, and plan for any potential free transfers using the current business plan as a guideline even if there is a change to it in the offing. We can negotiate with domestic free agents from the third Saturday in May (20th?) so if there are players at this level, levels below, or the championship who we have an eye on it is reasonable to think we can do some business. Yes we’ll be competing with other clubs but we’re a big draw and can seemingly offer decent brass at this level. 

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

I know what you mean but they didn’t look out of place in the championship either which basically indicates that there isn’t much difference with the majority of the clubs in the two divisions 

They looked steady in the Championship, but again their predominant body of work has been in a struggling side. Take away their first season, under Cocu, where they were used sparingly. They have been prominent in finishing 41st, 43rd and 51st overall in the English league pyramid. Two bottom four championship finishes (albeit one with a point deduction) and a failed top 6 push in the third tier of English football. 

Considering the landscape of football post Covid, where teams just aren’t spending money in the same fashion, they aren’t the players that demand decent money. I hope to be proven wrong and we can use their sales as a base to build a better side but I think we are looking at £1m-ish, honestly. Knight maybe more because if he leaves at the end of his contract then we go to a tribunal and him being a full international gives us decent leverage. 

[1of4]

17 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

I’ll wind my neck in when he makes the most of what is at his disposal 🤷🏼‍♂️

I don’t blame him for today but it’s ridiculous to suggest that we can’t criticise him after the run of form that saw us slide from 7 points within the play offs to falling out of them. 
 

It isn’t entitled either to expect us to (with a squad that’s probably top 6 in terms of wage bill) to not go on such an awful run. 

On that premise we just need to pay all our players 50 grand a week and we'll go unbeaten next season and have the league wrapped up by Christmas.

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

They looked steady in the Championship, but again their predominant body of work has been in a struggling side. Take away their first season, under Cocu, where they were used sparingly. They have been prominent in finishing 41st, 43rd and 51st overall in the English league pyramid. Two bottom four championship finishes (albeit one with a point deduction) and a failed top 6 push in the third tier of English football. 

Considering the landscape of football post Covid, where teams just aren’t spending money in the same fashion, they aren’t the players that demand decent money. I hope to be proven wrong and we can use their sales as a base to build a better side but I think we are looking at £1m-ish, honestly. Knight maybe more because if he leaves at the end of his contract then we go to a tribunal and him being a full international gives us decent leverage. 

I get all of that but they have been playing in a period of extreme restrictions imposed on the club - what would they be like with better pegs around them ? Who knows maybe we never will but it’s difficult to think they can’t do much better

[IlsonDerby]

2 hours ago, 1of4 said:

On that premise we just need to pay all our players 50 grand a week and we'll go unbeaten next season and have the league wrapped up by Christmas.

Well that’s daft… our wage bill isn’t small we’re not scraping round the bargain bucket with the signings we made. We had a good, albeit small, squad. 

[Andicis]

At the very least, of the clubs going down from the Championship, they don't look at the moment like massive competition. Wigan are in serious financial difficulties, Reading got a points deduction and are under a business plan (probably going to be tighter than ours due to lower revenue streams?), and Blackpool who have never been a competitive club financially. This could be of some benefit to Derby. 

[winktheram]

21 hours ago, Papahet said:

Another rebuild.

Wouldn't be against getting Hourihane off the wage bill and go for Cameron Branningan.

Better wide players, more attacking options, younger defence to partner Cashin...

Keep Wildsmith, Cashin, Forsyth, Mcgoldrick..

The rest I wouldn't be arsed about leaving.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Get some cash in, even if we can't spend it till the season after this. Clear the decks. We need a squad without the baggage of the last few years.

[winktheram]

7 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

I’m curious to see who is prepared to come to Derby for next season.

Will Paul Warne convince decent players he is building something special? Can he convince them that 30,000 are going to turn up every week again for the dross offered in League One?

Are Derby seen as a club living on past glories but with a soft underbelly?

Not my views but certainly a perspective that could be held.

The club needs an overhaul. We have built up our young players but in truth they haven’t shone in the third tier. Cashin shows promise. Bird, Knight and certainly Sibley have been pretty average (and I’m a big Knight fan).

We need to build a team robust (and fit) enough for the physical challenge yet with the attacking prowess to survive in the league above. We know Warne can get teams promoted, but can he build something sustainable?

Another chapter begins. I hope I’m still young enough to enjoy the success when it comes 😊

 

They'll come because we can pay up to a cap of £12k a week. It's huge for league 1. 

[Sparkle]

56 minutes ago, winktheram said:

They'll come because we can pay up to a cap of £12k a week. It's huge for league 1. 

We can’t pay many at that rate of pay