Derby v Man City U21s Matchday Thread

[May Contain Nuts]

Yes yes, nothing game, nothing competition, means nothing, nothing to read into it. Doesn't matter. Move on.

That is actually how I feel on the surface, but it is another shockingly poor performance where we've looked extremely basic tactically, no obvious plan to counter the opposition's threats, just the "let them play their game, we'll play ours and let's see what happens!" approach again. 

It makes you wonder if that's all we've got, but a few good wins in a league where often that's all you need and we won't really be thinking about it too much.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Kokosnuss

[Patrick Rams]

9 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Reserve team?  Collins, McGoldrick, knight, Sibley, osula, dobbin, bird, cashin, smith? 

 

We made ten changes!

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Got about the pitch, got involved, just lacked a bit of composure and showed rusty decision making... as expected after only 121 minutes of first team football over the last 8 weeks.

I'm afraid I don't agree on this one. He was unacceptably poor tonight. It was his chance to stake a claim and failed. 

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Beaten by two. Thumped by one.  Based on what I'm reading tonight, same team or not is irrelevant.  They had one of the best 5 teams in Europe then as well with just as much choice on youngsters I'd assume and lost 5-0 to Rotherham.  They still had U21 as part of the moniker as well.   We didn't really play a reserve tonight either lets be honest. 

Odoruh was released by Man City because he wasn't good enough to get into the side we just lost to.

Dobbin was playing for a side which lost 7-0 to these on the last day of last season.

Roberts was a CB at U21 level last season, and is now learning to play LWB.

Osula was playing a level below PL2 (Mam City U21s) last season in thr PDL.

Rooney wasn't even a regular for Burnley U21s last season.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Odoruh was released by Man City because he wasn't good enough to get into the side we just lost to.

Dobbin was playing for a side which lost 7-0 to these on the last day of last season.

Roberts was a CB at U21 level last season, and is now learning to play LWB.

Osula was playing a level below PL2 (Mam City U21s) last season in thr PDL.

Rooney wasn't even a regular for Burnley U21s last season.

What about the rest.  Bar the goalie who's obviously getting on and making up the numbers.

[MaltRam]

Proper marmalised. Ho hum.

So long as Knighty is ok, no harm done.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Think this is the most embarrassed I’ve been as a Derby fan since 2008

Don’t understand that. We’re a strong div 1 club playing against a group of players all of who could be full internationals in a few years. That Man City team would challenge most championship clubs. And we’d beat them another day. I though we played ok given the game was played at a pace that’s completely unfamiliar to us 

For my money we should have started with the Osulas and Dobbins and finished with Didzy and Collins 

[Ghost of Clough]

18 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

What about the rest.  Bar the goalie who's obviously getting on and making up the numbers.

Stearman, Forsyth and Collins in to keep match fitness topped up. Tommo to try to build some match fitness. Smith and McGoldrick only just returning from injury.

All three goals came from the left winger who was up against Oduroh/Rooney. They aren't at the same level as everyone else who was on the pitch

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

They got beat by Mansfield.   Last season they were stuffed 5-0 by Rotherham and lost to Doncaster.  A team of professionals with over a thousand games between them, mostly championship level, should be comfortable winners against any team of teenage talent. It's an embarrassing result that probably sets us back significantly confidence wise .  Dobbin is the worst one on one player we've had since Tommy Johnson,  Thompson needs to go out on loan to Mickleover as soon as possible.

We also got beat by Mansfield. That’s why we’re out.

Can’t comment on them last season against Rotherham or Doncaster but on another night we’d beat them pumping balls into the box and putting Curtis at no 9. In the knock our stages we’d be evens to beat them. 
 

we were done for pace all over the place. No surprise,  they are faster man for man. We needed Dobbin to score, yes,  and Cashin to make that header but those are 1 in 3 and 1 in 5 respectively. The Borges guy made Rooney look like his uncle aged 34 and the only senior ram whose experience really showed was McGoldrick who after a slow start put on a glittering display of guilded footwork. (He knew what was going to happen 3 seconds before everyone else so the fact he was 2 seconds slower didn’t matter.) Yes the issue with Tommo is his first touch which has deserted him. I’d prescribe beta blockers 

[Crewton]

57 minutes ago, alram said:

i know it's a bit of a nothing game but we feel firmly like a league one side tonight losing to another teams u23 side

Last time I looked, we WERE a L1 side, and THAT other team was the U23 team of the richest club in the world. 

Get a sense of perspective. We made 10 changes from Saturdays starting line up and we have a much more important game on Friday and another next Tuesday. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Stearman, Forsyth and Collins in to keep match fitness topped up. Tommo to try to build some match fitness. Smith and McGoldrick only just returning from injury.

All three goals came from the left winger who was up against Oduroh/Rooney. They aren't at the same level as everyone else who was on the pitch

Stearman and Collins have been regulars all season.  The other two have missed a couple of games not months and the other ones twenty years old, you can't get any fitter.  The full strength Mansfield eleven has a lad from Forest who's spent two years at League one and is now a division lower and another from  Forest who's best turnout was for Wealdstone.  I imagine the rest have played League 1 at best.  One of them was deemed not good enough for us.   I think some would see a glass half full even if on drinking it, it turned out to be pee. Up to them . 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

We also got beat by Mansfield. That’s why we’re out.

Can’t comment on them last season against Rotherham or Doncaster but on another night we’d beat them pumping balls into the box and putting Curtis at no 9. In the knock our stages we’d be evens to beat them. 
 

we were done for pace all over the place. No surprise,  they are faster man for man. We needed Dobbin to score, yes,  and Cashin to make that header but those are 1 in 3 and 1 in 5 respectively. The Borges guy made Rooney look like his uncle aged 34 and the only senior ram whose experience really showed was McGoldrick who after a slow start put on a glittering display of guilded footwork. (He knew what was going to happen 3 seconds before everyone else so the fact he was 2 seconds slower didn’t matter.) Yes the issue with Tommo is his first touch which has deserted him. I’d prescribe beta blockers 

We drew really.  Another pointless add on to this joke competition.

[Jourdan]

We did start an eleven with players with plenty of Championship experience, this is true.

But does experience count for much if you are playing in such an unfamiliar set up?

In games like this, it is rather easy to look like a group of strangers.

A new style, a new formation, no partnerships, little to no familiarity, varying levels of fitness and match sharpness, players playing in makeshift positions, little to no incentive or motivation.

You can see why we might come unstuck against a group that play week in, week out together and come into such a game extremely motivated compared to our players. They see it as a proving ground. They might even see it as a shop window in many ways.

Warne obviously has his eyes on Friday and clearly so did the players. Not good but understandable.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Stearman and Collins have been regulars all season.  The other two have missed a couple of games not months and the other ones twenty years old, you can't get any fitter.  The full strength Mansfield eleven has a lad from Forest who's spent two years at League one and is now a division lower and another from  Forest who's best turnout was for Wealdstone.  I imagine the rest have played League 1 at best.  One of them was deemed not good enough for us.   I think some would see a glass half full even if on drinking it, it turned out to be pee. Up to them . 

They had a full international at CM, and elsewhere had 1x U21, 2x U20, 3x U19 and 3x U18 national age players in that starting lineup. To put it in perspective, England U19 players are generally considered to be Championship level players.

Smith's first start since August. Tommo's had 121 minutes of first team football since August. McGoldrick's played 20 minutes in the last month. An aging Stearman dealing with pacey youngsters? It doesn't matter how much game time he's had, he's not going to keep up with them.

That Mansfield side narrowly lost out on promotion to a Port Vale side who beat our first 11 2-1 a couple of weeks ago.

[Carl Sagan]

Ten changes from Saturday shows it was our reserves, except we don't have an actual reserve team so one of our problems was that these players aren't used to playing together as a team. In contrast, the Man Citeh U21s train and play together every day. We're being experimental and trying to do different things. They're well drilled and all know their specific way of playing. Pride Park is a Premier League stadium and suited to their way of playing.

The only thing that matters this season is promotion and we're currently cast adrift from three teams at the top. We have the opportunity to get a little closer to one of them on Friday, and that's the only game that matters this week. In the long run, playing no further matches in this silly cup (with three sides of Pride Park closed and a tiny crowd) may prove to be what helps us make it over the line and return to the Championship.

[kevinhectoring]

29 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Last time I looked, we WERE a L1 side, and THAT other team was the U23 team of the richest club in the world.

not the richest club      the richest group of clubs   

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

They had a full international at CM, and elsewhere had 1x U21, 2x U20, 3x U19 and 3x U18 national age players in that starting lineup. To put it in perspective, England U19 players are generally considered to be Championship level players.

Smith's first start since August. Tommo's had 121 minutes of first team football since August. McGoldrick's played 20 minutes in the last month. An aging Stearman dealing with pacey youngsters? It doesn't matter how much game time he's had, he's not going to keep up with them.

That Mansfield side narrowly lost out on promotion to a Port Vale side who beat our first 11 2-1 a couple of weeks ago.

Well, the ref won that game.  Regardless, a team with nowhere near the ability or experience as our squad tonight beat these.  I won't comment any further on it as it's a pointless endeavour.

[Ramslad1992]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Where's the suicide watch thread? ? 

It’s the ‘Depression, anxiety, stress and other related issues’ thread in the Jim Smith room… poor comment in my opinion ?‍♂️

[Oldben]

https://www.itwglobal.com/the-hidden-costs-of-free-transfers/

http://footballagents.org.uk/blog/loan-system-good-or-bad

As a club, through zero choice of our own due to transfer restrictions, we took the plunge and built a team which allowed us to play.

Yet the issues mentioned here apply.

Is this the team, we would have built if we had a transfer budget?

As to this competition, why are u21 premier league sides allowed to play in it, its because the organisers felt it would bring in more revenue. Yet this competition has turned from its grass roots and not given lower league teams a fair opportunity.

The majority of the man city u21 team get opportunities to play for either city or other Premier league teams in their careers and at least some will go on to play at the international level.

City's academy is world class, our academy is good but not that good.

 

 

[Blondest Goat]

9 hours ago, Patrick Rams said:

We made ten changes!

The team still included a core of players that we have been relying on in the league.  And none of them came out of it with any credit. 

Mostly blaming Warne and the coaching staff though.   The tactics might work against poor League One sides but we won't see the ball against better opposition.

Really worried that we have gone from one extreme under Rosenior where it was all about possession with little threat to the opposite under Warne where we do look a threat but can't actually string more than 3 passes together and have a total lack of control in games.