Warne isn't the Messiah and Stearman is a very Naughty Boy

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, Loughborough Ram said:

Paul Warne deserves the chance to implement his ideas and to even suggest that 3 games is the time to make any judgements, is complete idiocy in my opinion.

Of course, way too early. The end of this season will be too early.

But the seeds of opinions are not based solely on the three Derby County games he's managed. People are also aware of his ideas and style of play from his time at Rotherham.

[Loughborough Ram]

His Rotherham career may have negatively influenced some people but it positively influenced the one that counts.

Time will tell whether David Clowes is right but time is what he deserves.

[Crewton]

5 hours ago, bcnram said:

The football is horrible, the players are confused. Surely no one can be happy with what the players are being asked to do. 
I suspect come January we will end up with a team of 6 ft + players feeding off percentages. 

Two f'kin games ?

[S8TY]

I'm personally hoping that Warne can mix it up a bit and what I mean by that is be prepared to attack and get balls into the box etc etc like he  has mentioned  but for me yesterday once we were 1 up i'd have reverted to Liam style keeping the ball , taking the sting out of the game and gaining control of the game because we clearly have technically good players who can do that , we've seen it for ourselves.

What worries me is the lack of control even when 1-0 up and then becomes an even scrap where teams like PV will see and think they have a chance...i'm fairly sure had we reverted to possesion football after going 1-0 up we would have taken them and most teams apart if they have to come at us for an equaliser

We played some brilliant football at Charlton in the first half and really should've been 3 up by HT and not getting a lead early in a game seemed to galvanise some opposition enough to be happy with a 0-0 

I will accept Warnes style of play if hes astute enough to change tactics during games but I will probably (like others have mentioned )be a bit dissapointed if we continue to play percentage football and give teams with much lesser talent than us an equal chance of winning 

 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, S8TY said:

I'm personally hoping that Warne can mix it up a bit and what I mean by that is be prepared to attack and get balls into the box etc etc like he  has mentioned  but for me yesterday once we were 1 up i'd have reverted to Liam style keeping the ball , taking the sting out of the game and gaining control of the game because we clearly have technically good players who can do that , we've seen it for ourselves.

What worries me is the lack of control even when 1-0 up and then becomes an even scrap where teams like PV will see and think they have a chance...i'm fairly sure had we reverted to possesion football after going 1-0 up we would have taken them and most teams apart if they have to come at us for an equaliser

We played some brilliant football at Charlton in the first half and really should've been 3 up by HT and not getting a lead early in a game seemed to galvanise some opposition enough to be happy with a 0-0 

I will accept Warnes style of play if hes astute enough to change tactics during games but I will probably (like others have mentioned )be a bit dissapointed if we continue to play percentage football and give teams with much lesser talent than us an equal chance of winning 

 

We had a lead against Plymouth but still lost playing possession football 

[G STAR RAM]

22 hours ago, LazloW said:

Can’t agree with that. Rowett would have shut up shop and let Vale have the ball for 86 minutes and completely sat back.

While it wasn’t particularly pretty at least I thought we were being positive and trying to go forward.  

There were a few decent bits of play too in the first half in particular. Put those chances away and it’s a completely different story. I think the result is probably colouring the overall view of the game.

I complained that it was too early to judge Rosenior after 9 games, so certainly not going to judge Warne after two. 

Also, very unusual to have two penalties awarded against you and have a man sent off in the same game. 

Anyway, nothing was as bad as Rowettball. Nothing.

Yeah me neither.

Think some fans had already made their mind up about how he was going to play before a ball had even been kicked under his tenure.

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, Duracell said:

This is exactly how I feel.

Decent bloke, good manager in fact, but a totally perplexing appointment. 

If this is how Warne wants to play, it means the players we signed in the summer were the wrong players and the academy is preparing youngsters for a style of play that doesn’t exist in the first team.

So we’ll have to start from scratch. Again.

Looking at the players signed in the summer, which ones do you think were signed exclusively to play in a possession based team?

[Jayram]

35 minutes ago, Archied said:

We had a lead against Plymouth but still lost playing possession football 

Against the best team in the division who are now league leaders, not one that was sat 5th from bottom before the game.

[eccles the ram]

Yes it's really galling about the match against Vale. Yes they won on the back of some appalling refereeing decisions. We should have been at least two up at halftime but we weren't. I for one will NOT get on the manager and player's backs at this stage of the season. For Christ's sake give them a chance. They are being asked to play a different way of playing and it will take until at least Christmas to gell perhaps longer. I would love us to be near the play offs then but if not, so what. We STILL have a team to support, our Saturday's are still filled with emotions and we must be thankful to Clowes for that. Give the manager and players all the support we can. I certainly will. Results will come our way. Patience is the key. UTR!

[Jayram]

13 hours ago, Archie said:

Like you, I'm really pleased we have a football team to support. The uncertainty has been horrible for the last 15 months. Glad we're still in the game.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes I think he should have stuck with LR. There was so much goodwill around he really couldn't lose (I don't know the financial ins and outs). Signing PW and his team on a 4 year deal in our current situation was reckless imo. We didn't need to do it. Ratchets up the pressure on everyone at the club. 

2. The team was assembled for LR's approach and good enough to compete in the league but not for PW. 

3. Agree. But equally wish Clowes had given LR more time as well. Works both ways.

People are saying give PW more time and rightly so but I'm not sure what more time will show other than being better at the same approach. I don't think I can stomach it. I just don't think this is how football should be played. Once again, just my opinion. Good managers should be able to pick a style depending on the squad of players they have to work with. From what we have seen so far, I don't think PW has the ability nor desire to do this. 

I'm not being alarmist but really hope Cowles hasn't made a massive blunder here. 

We all knew what we were getting when PW was appointed so why is anyone surprised? It’s unsophisticated industrial football that on the whole bypasses midfield. Saturday was dreadful and was a case of different style, same result. We have no choice but to get behind PW but personally I think he’s a poor choice of manager for our club.

[FlyBritishMidland]

It’s interesting how we’ve managed to put a label on the type of football we’ll play.  It needs to be a bit horses for courses.  I said that LR needed to learn and adapt to the division.  For example, I noticed if we’d sent the centre half’s up for a corner it was cleared, Wildsmith waited for them both to come back and then pass to one of them.  Fine, possession football.  But that also allows the defence to regroup and momentum is lost.  That’s a time to be direct.

PW may need to learn and adapt to his squad.  And I say may cos we don’t fully know what his style is as none of us have watched 46 Rotherham games in a season.  He’s said we needed to be more composed in midfield.  I take that as get hold of the ball and take the sting out the game now and again.  He’s waxed lyrical about Bird, Bird is not a hoof it footballer.

I’ve no problem with us being a bit more direct, which doesn’t mean long ball.  It means a targeted ball, getting forward with pace and exploiting space.  We could be direct under Cox, Smith, McLaren, etc.  Long ball is Wimbledon, Cambridge of the 80’s / 90’s.

I also don’t think it’s promotion or bust this season.  DC has talked about stability and given PW a 4 year contract.  I don’t think he’d rip it up come May if we don’t go up.  He took his time to get who feels is the right man.  Hence why LR was only ever interim.

[England Ram]

It is interesting to me that if we had played the way we did in the first half for the whole game and finished those chances the response would have been massively different.

The team were clapped off at half time, the fans were on the whole excited for a less pedestrian approach and it wasn't hoof ball but a quicker progression of play and Vale were on the back foot for a lot of it.

The fans were off their seats expecting a goal way more than we have been.

The second half changed with the two brain dead decisions from our players, firstly to conceded the second peno and then the sending off. After that happened we went long aimless ball and played into their hands and the football was awful.

I'll take us playing like we did in the first half any time over passing it around at the back for 30 mins out of the 45 and possibly mustering a shot once a half.

I'll give Warne no criticism for that second half as the team went away from his direction and the errors were all our own making (peno, sending off, losing the ball running in front of our back 4 when a simple pass is on etc) and I'm not a clapper, just feel I am more of a realist when I'd seen the posative reaction of the fans after that first half.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jayram said:

We all knew what we were getting when PW was appointed so why is anyone surprised? It’s unsophisticated industrial football that on the whole bypasses midfield. Saturday was dreadful and was a case of different style, same result. We have no choice but to get behind PW but personally I think he’s a poor choice of manager for our club.

Are you basing that on the Port Vale game, both league games where PW picked his best available side, or all 3 games he's taken charge of (including Mansfield)?

Did you watch the Cambridge game and if so did you feel the same after that one?

[Jourdan]

21 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:

What I don’t understand is there being some posters who seem have to made their mind up on Warne from day one and will pounce on anyone who provides any sort of critique that isn't unwaveringly upbeat or in any way casts doubt about any aspects of his style of play being a good fit for the players we have, thus inviting others to swarm all over these posts, claiming them to be negative, impatient and born out of a desire to see Liam Rosenior in charge.

I don't really understand the position you've taken on this really, which seems to eschew your usual (intended) balance and fair judgement in favour of relentless positivity and calling out others for not being positive. With respect, it just isn't how you've come across before! 

To provide a critique on something isn't the same as criticising it, it's an evaluation. Sometimes people don't seem to know the difference.

I am not pouncing on anyone. I don’t have the agility. I don’t think there is ‘relentless positivity’ either.

Many like myself have said it could be a shrewd appointment, many like myself have also said it’s a calculated risk, so there is balance there if you are willing to search for it. I don’t think anyone is oblivious to the idea things could fall flat.

Right now, I am going to support the club’s decision to appoint Warne. I can see the intent and the logic behind it and there have been signs that it could work and yes, also some indicators that it might not.

But if people want to raise alarm bells after two games, that’s their prerogative. I am not sure it’s helpful when the man has been tied down to a four-year contract, not installed in a temporary position that could last one game or ten.

Is it possible it could all go wrong and people’s fears will be realised? Absolutely. But the uproar after two league games, one which we won and the other we were on our way to winning until we pressed self destruct, seems a bit agenda-driven, I have to say.

The turning points in the game were both down to decision making by individuals, not style of play or tactics. Rosenior or Rooney wouldn’t have got the blame for Saturday either.

I think Warne could do very well here. There is every possibility he might not. But some people seem to have already seen this episode play out and no benefit of the doubt is being given. After two league games, it seems unforgiving in the extreme.

[Crewton]

Stop passing out from the back they said, get the ball forward more quickly they said.... ? 

[May Contain Nuts]

46 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The turning points in the game were both down to decision making by individuals, not style of play or tactics. Rosenior or Rooney wouldn’t have got the blame for Saturday either.

It's far too much 'after the event' for me to bother to be embroiled in answering your whole post.

But if you truly 100% believe the quoted bit above, I'll have some of what you're drinking (even this early in the morning!).

You're probably right that Rooney wouldn't be blamed though, at least not when he was in charge. He was also elevated to a position where he was unquestionable at times. There were quite a few came crawling out of the woodwork when he left though.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Kokosnuss

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Playing long balls forward in the air, targeted or not, creates a scrap for the second ball situation. It's not what I enjoy watching and I don't think it especially suites our players. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by The Scarlet Pimpernel

[Addingham Ram]

10 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Of course, way too early. The end of this season will be too early.

But the seeds of opinions are not based solely on the three Derby County games he's managed. People are also aware of his ideas and style of play from his time at Rotherham.

I love the fact that we there are now so experts on what has happened at Rotherham over the past few years.

Let's be honest. If we hadn't appointed PW, then we'd have mostly been pretty ignorant of how he had gone about achieving what he has achieved in League One. 3 promotions in 6 years. That's remarkable!

I bet before Derby came in for PW, you'd have struggled to find many Rotherham fans that would have had a bad word to say about him. Of course if you ask them now, they'll be glad to point out his limitations. That's fickle football fans for you. Derby fans are exactly the same.

DC has appointed arguably the most successful Leage One manager for decades, if not of all time.

So let's not pretend we are experts in the way PW wants to play. He wants to be successful, and has his own ideas as to how to achieve that.

Let's give him ample opportunity to show us what he can do.

I'd be very surprised that if he thinks the style of football needs changing, he'll change it. His record shows he knows exactly what he's doing.

Can't we just let him do it?

[LazloW]

9 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Playing long balls forward in the air, targeted or not, creates a scrap for the second ball situation. It's not what I enjoy watching and I don't think it especially suites our players. 

As a club who have seemingly failed to win a second ball since I started watching them in 1987, I have to agree that this won’t be an approach that meets with a lot of success.

Hopefully Warne can get rid of the second ball curse! 

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Playing long balls forward in the air, targeted or not, creates a scrap for the second ball situation. It's not what I enjoy watching and I don't think it especially suites our players. 

What does suit our players?!