Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[Reggie Greenwood]

4 minutes ago, Ramslad1992 said:

Not happy about Warne purely for ‘that reaction’ when we stayed up, if there’s one thing I’m good at it’s holding a grudge. 

that being said, if he comes in and gets us promoted I might get his face tattooed on my arse. 
 

us fans are a fickle lot. 

I read that as you would get his arse tattooed on your face ?

[Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster]

37 minutes ago, Retro_RAM said:

This is it, I'm stick to death of twisting we've twisted for so many years and look where it has got us? Every time it hasn't been better, it's been pretty much the same with the only difference being the name on the managers parking space and I'm tired of it.

If this was always the plan and LR knew he was only keeping the seat warm then fine BUT if we're just (again) going for another manager because we're not smashing the league I'll be very disappointed.

This club needs stability more than ever and this change (assuming LR was led to believe this role could lead to permanent) just reeks of our old ways, same goals, same desperation of "twisting" on managers to get promoted.

I hope I'm wrong and if/when Warne joins us we stick with him just because we're not bossing the league...

I don't think it was a knee-jerk reaction on David Clowes' part.

I think he's been carefully considering since he took over.

Obviously he will see more than you or I.

I have confidence in him and his decision.

[Tombo]

44 minutes ago, Srg said:

Interesting actually because it suggests fast but not actually direct. 

You mean the other way around? Not as fast but more direct (fewer passes per sequence)?

[LeedsCityRam]

Very, very disappointed. Rosenior was exactly the type of manager I wanted at Derby...progressive, bright, levelheaded & wanted to play the game the right way.

I cannot accept that 7th place, only outside the playoffs on goal difference is a disappointing position to be after 9 games & would love to hear the rationale for Rosenior not being given the chance to manage until Christmas at least. Performances have largely been good (with the only real exception of Lincoln) & only poor finishing has prevented us from being 4th/5th - that would surely have improved as the team became more familiar with each other.

It was also apparent that the players bought into Rosenior. He was directly responsible for bringing some of our more impressive names to the club & the squad adapted very quickly to his style of play. I'm really not sure what more he could have done & to be offered a coaching demotion after that is really disrespectful. He wasn't a caretaker manager & I'd be amazed if he stayed.

As for Paul Warne, have to smile at some of the optimism from those who automatically equate any change as progress. If you thought Rowett was tough to watch, just wait until you've seen a few weeks of Warne's direct & basic style. His teams are frankly anti-football - hit into the channels, horrible agricultural midfielders better without the ball than with it & an obsession with set pieces. Irrespective of Rotherham's resources, it is a conscious decision to set teams up to play in that style & I would think it naive to hope Warne is going to play better football given Derby's greater resources - especially galling given the patient style we have employed to date. It smacks of another Clement-Pearson-McClaren-Rowett swing in philosophy.

Some may also point to Warne's promotion record but below is his full record since taking charge of Rotherham in 2016/17 - nothing in here that indicates he has the pedigree to make Derby successful from a long term perspective;

[Jourdan]

16 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Why is it scaremongering ?? Jewell and Pearson had good track records and failed here miserably so that’s a fact every managerial appointment is a risk and personally think 9 games was not enough ….LR possibly needed an experienced assistant who knows this division 

It’s obvious scaremongering.

The vast majority of Derby fans believe we should be a footballing side, so naturally any manager who deviates from that even slightly will be talked down. Even though in real terms, Billy Davies is the only manager to have a degree of success with us since the turn of the century.

Cocu and Lampard raised the roof. Pearson and Rowett were treated with suspicion. So too now is Warne.

I prefer to look at Warne’s record and the circumstances he was working under. To me, everything points to him having done a good job at Rotherham and showing skill in what he was asked to do.

Will he be a success here? Who knows? But he has had success in League 1. He has got a team out of this league three times in three attempts. This is positive, no? What has Rosenior done by comparison?

So surely if you put concerns about style to one side, Warne is the safer bet.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jourdan

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Tombo said:

You mean the other way around? Not as fast but more direct (fewer passes per sequence)?

No, if I’m reading that graph correctly, they play few passes in sequence but they aren’t long ones (ie. Getting up the pitch quickly)

[Ramslad1992]

6 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

I read that as you would get his arse tattooed on your face ?

Thankfully I have absolutely no idea what his arse looks like ?‍♂️ 

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Some may also point to Warne's promotion record but below is his full record since taking charge of Rotherham in 2016/17 - nothing in here that indicates he has the pedigree to make Derby successful from a long term perspective;

He hasn't ever had a competitive squad or budget. Even at League One level, his budget and squad wasn't brilliant. He did well to get them promoted three times. He has good pedigree in League One. 

What evidence was there that Rosenior would be a success? His football was neat and tidy, but ultimately slow and a bit toothless. Slightly Cocu, in my opinion. 

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Very, very disappointed. Rosenior was exactly the type of manager I wanted at Derby...progressive, bright, levelheaded & wanted to play the game the right way.

I cannot accept that 7th place, only outside the playoffs on goal difference is a disappointing position to be after 9 games & would love to hear the rationale for Rosenior not being given the chance to manage until Christmas at least. Performances have largely been good (with the only real exception of Lincoln) & only poor finishing has prevented us from being 4th/5th - that would surely have improved as the team became more familiar with each other.

It was also apparent that the players bought into Rosenior. He was directly responsible for bringing some of our more impressive names to the club & the squad adapted very quickly to his style of play. I'm really not sure what more he could have done & to be offered a coaching demotion after that is really disrespectful. He wasn't a caretaker manager & I'd be amazed if he stayed.

As for Paul Warne, have to smile at some of the optimism from those who automatically equate any change as progress. If you thought Rowett was tough to watch, just wait until you've seen a few weeks of Warne's direct & basic style. His teams are frankly anti-football - hit into the channels, horrible agricultural midfielders better without the ball than with it & an obsession with set pieces. Irrespective of Rotherham's resources, it is a conscious decision to set teams up to play in that style & I would think it naive to hope Warne is going to play better football given Derby's greater resources - especially galling given the patient style we have employed to date. It smacks of another Clement-Pearson-McClaren-Rowett swing in philosophy.

Some may also point to Warne's promotion record but below is his full record since taking charge of Rotherham in 2016/17 - nothing in here that indicates he has the pedigree to make Derby successful from a long term perspective;

Agree with a lot of that ?

[BodminRam]

13 minutes ago, Ramslad1992 said:

Not happy about Warne purely for ‘that reaction’ when we stayed up, if there’s one thing I’m good at it’s holding a grudge. 

that being said, if he comes in and gets us promoted I might get his face tattooed on my arse. 
 

us fans are a fickle lot. 

Paul Warne is a Ram

Is a Ram, Is a Ram

Paul Warne is a Ram, but he HATES Derby

Not convinced at this decision, and if the results dont come soon, i think a lot of fans will remember what he said on air, and voice their opinions 

[BramcoteRam84]

24 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Look at it from this perspective: you appoint a manager to get a job done.

We want to get promoted from League 1, do we not?

If Warne gets us promoted, it will be the perfect fit.

You make it sound like footballers can only play in one way and you make it sound like our squad is prime Arsenal under Wenger. It’s far from it.

Players like Davies, Mendez Laing, Barkhuizen, Chester, Collins, McGoldrick and Hourihane have flourished under various managers with varying styles of play. They are not out and out technical ball players.

Looking at our young players, the likes of Cashin, Knight, Thompson, Dobbin and Sibley all have qualities that could be brought to the fore playing under a different manager in a different kind of side.

I’ll say it again, comparing this to Jewell or Pearson is scaremongering.

If Warne gets us out of league one in next 2 seasons then he’ll have done what is expected, no more, if we’re midtable championship playing antiquated football id want him gone.

I fear we’ll be playing antiquated football in league 1 and not getting promoted.

I’m happy to be proved wrong. 

[BramcoteRam84]

12 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Very, very disappointed. Rosenior was exactly the type of manager I wanted at Derby...progressive, bright, levelheaded & wanted to play the game the right way.

I cannot accept that 7th place, only outside the playoffs on goal difference is a disappointing position to be after 9 games & would love to hear the rationale for Rosenior not being given the chance to manage until Christmas at least. Performances have largely been good (with the only real exception of Lincoln) & only poor finishing has prevented us from being 4th/5th - that would surely have improved as the team became more familiar with each other.

It was also apparent that the players bought into Rosenior. He was directly responsible for bringing some of our more impressive names to the club & the squad adapted very quickly to his style of play. I'm really not sure what more he could have done & to be offered a coaching demotion after that is really disrespectful. He wasn't a caretaker manager & I'd be amazed if he stayed.

As for Paul Warne, have to smile at some of the optimism from those who automatically equate any change as progress. If you thought Rowett was tough to watch, just wait until you've seen a few weeks of Warne's direct & basic style. His teams are frankly anti-football - hit into the channels, horrible agricultural midfielders better without the ball than with it & an obsession with set pieces. Irrespective of Rotherham's resources, it is a conscious decision to set teams up to play in that style & I would think it naive to hope Warne is going to play better football given Derby's greater resources - especially galling given the patient style we have employed to date. It smacks of another Clement-Pearson-McClaren-Rowett swing in philosophy.

Some may also point to Warne's promotion record but below is his full record since taking charge of Rotherham in 2016/17 - nothing in here that indicates he has the pedigree to make Derby successful from a long term perspective;

Absolutely nail it here again as you often do. Incredibly short sighted appointment

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Absolutely nail it here again as you often do. Incredibly short sighted appointment

Genuinely curious - why is this a short sighted appointment?

[ram59]

I really like LR and think that he did really well recruitment wise, considering the restrictions, but his continued use of the slow ponderous possession football from the ridiculous goal kicks and passing across the back line, has been driving me crazy during his and Rooney's tenure. I can remember only 1 goal against Fulham that could be attributed to this tactic, whereas many goals and even more chances have been conceded using this tactic. I see this tactic being used at the top level with similar success levels, even though those players are more talented, but so are the opposition. It seems to me that some big wig in UEFA coaching has decided that this is the way to play football and every coach getting his pro license has to go down this route.

Oh, for the old days before UEFA told everyone else how to play football and we had the likes of Clough, Shankly, Revie etc, who all had different ideas on how to play football, when football was far more entertaining than it is today. If every team plays to the same coaching manual, then they become predictable and teams cancel each other out, unless you can spend megabucks on the very best players. Back in the old days, good managers/coaches could surprise the bigger established teams. Look what Cloughie achieved with relatively unknown group of players, could you imagine Cloughie or Shanks going on a UEFA pro license course?

It reminds of a time, many years ago, when I had many great games of squash with a friend of mine. He used to receive coaching from the local 6th form college and used to get annoyed when I would win a point by playing the 'wrong' shot, the coaching manual said that I should have played the shot that he had then anticipated and not the random one that I had played. My point is that there is still and always has been a place in sport for being unpredictable.

To be honest our football under Cocu, Rooney and LR has become boring, slow and pedestrian for large parts of each game. How I long for a bit of variety and getting some pace into our play.

[Jimbo Ram]

3 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

If Warne gets us out of league one in next 2 seasons then he’ll have done what is expected, no more, if we’re midtable championship playing antiquated football id want him gone.

I fear we’ll be playing antiquated football in league 1 and not getting promoted.

I’m happy to be proved wrong. 

I think it is the timing that is all wrong. LR should have been given until Xmas, another 12 games or so, and then a fair assessment could have been made.

[BramcoteRam84]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Genuinely curious - why is this a short sighted appointment?

Because we’re appointing an experienced yet small time manager, with a very limited way of playing who only really has an association with one club, a club very different to ours with different expectations, because he knows league 1, so he may get us out of league 1 great if not this season then next, but what pedigree does he have to indicate we wouldn’t be relegation fodder in the championship, that’s not where we want to be.

You may not think Liam is the right man but you can’t think this is the right appointment surely? I’d take my chances with Liam over Warne. A way of playing and everyone including the youngsters buy into him, a solid start to the season, his methods IMO would give us long term success but now we’ll never know.

As an alternative to Warne I’d take the manager who is currently bottom of the championship with Coventry, Mark Robins. Or id try to convince Nathan Jones. 

[Nuwtfly]

The sort of decision that tends to define an ownership. 

Like sacking Clement as we hovered precariously in 5th. 

I really hope Clowes has got this one right. My head says he has. My gut says different. 

[Jourdan]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I think it is the timing that is all wrong. LR should have been given until Xmas, another 12 games or so, and then a fair assessment could have been made.

But why?

He was interim manager, not permanent manager.

If an interim manager is still in place halfway through the season, it kind of makes a mockery of the role.

Everyone would want some clarity and certainty by that point.

The timing could very well be fine, because we don’t have a game for 9-10 days, so Warne has some time to settle in.

[BramcoteRam84]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

But why?

He was interim manager, not permanent manager.

If an interim manager is still in place halfway through the season, it kind of makes a mockery of the role.

Everyone would want some clarity and certainty by that point.

The timing could very well be fine, because we don’t have a game for 9-10 days, so Warne has some time to settle in.

How long are you giving Warne before you criticise him? 10-15 games or your usual 5 games? ?

[LeedsCityRam]

20 minutes ago, Andicis said:

He hasn't ever had a competitive squad or budget. Even at League One level, his budget and squad wasn't brilliant. He did well to get them promoted three times. He has good pedigree in League One. 

What evidence was there that Rosenior would be a success? His football was neat and tidy, but ultimately slow and a bit toothless. Slightly Cocu, in my opinion. 

Blackpool & Luton had similar budgets to Rotherham but both not only stayed up comfortably but also played much better football. I don't accept Warne's failure to adapt to the Championship as inevitable.

Re Rosenior - like I've argued, 9 games is an incredibly harsh basis on which to judge a manager but the evidence on that small sample does show him to be a success. We are 7th with 14 points - on par/ahead of most fans' expectations at start of the season & better at this stage than both of Arthur Cox's seasons in the old Division 3. He got us promoted in the second season - would Rosenior have done the same? We'll never know.