The Administration Thread

[Ram-Alf]

11 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

You must be new around here ?

 

Odd isn't it? I'll always follow my beloved Rams but I don't even watch the Premier League games anymore. I don't much bother with the CL either save for the final stages and even then, only if there's domestic interest. I remember religiously watching MOTD as a kid, even when Derby weren't involved. Not watched it years, though I do, I confess have other 'hobbies' these days. TBH, if this is the end of Derby County, and FWIW, I'm certain it's not, I'd walk away from the game and never give it a moment's thought.

You are me and i'm off to the Police station to report myself as being a double

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

There's people that believe the Earth is flat, The Brain is a funny old Organ.

Funny indeed...

[Comrade 86]

On the funny brain tangent, I'll leave this here and stop side-tacking the thread. I just love how some folks' minds work  ?

[Ram-Alf]

5 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

On the funny brain tangent, I'll leave this here and stop side-tacking the thread. I just love how some folks' minds work  ?

You need to send that to people in a Circular

[CornwallRam]

24 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Rush was appointed as the president and chief executive of Derby County in September 2012. In November 2014 he was named FC Business Championship chief executive of the year. All going pretty well during his time at the club under the ownership of GSE. In October 2015, Rush signed a new five-year contract at Derby with Morris stating: “Rush is a big reason for the turnaround in the football club and a main for reason for me having joined the club”. A couple of years later Rush is accused by Morris of <cough> “gross misconduct and breach of fiduciary duty"<cough> although the matter never made Court, despite Morris “relishing the opportunity”.

It did come to court. The judge said that there was no case to answer by Rush, but Morris had failed to follow the correct procedure and had defamed Rush in the dismissal. The case was set aside to allow the unfair dismissal case to proceed. I believe that that case was settled out of court - it wasn't going to end well for Mel in light of the judges comments from the previous case.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, AndyB said:

Out of interest I wandered onto a Derby County thread on a Middlesbrough forum. Unsurprisingly they seem to have the view that Steve Gibson is an honest owner who plays by the rules and Mel Morris is a dishonest owner who cheats. When someone mentions Steve Gibson moving profit around his different companies to keep Middlesbrough the right side of P&S/FFP (as referenced in Mel Morris’ statement on Friday) they say it is normal business practice. But so is what Mel Morris did at Derby with amortisation! I can’t see the difference other than the EFL worked a charge against Derby (to avoid being sued by Middlesbrough) and Mel Morris put Derby into administration. It is not a big stretch to see a set of circumstances where the EFL could have worked a charge against Middlesbrough and Steve Gibson put Middlesbrough into administration. I guess the Middlesbrough fans only know some elements of the Derby story and are fed propoganda from the North East? But the difference in their views of Steve Gibson and Mel Morris were to me quite shocking.

(I am no fan of Mel Morris by the way, he is still the root cause of Derby’s current issues).

With respect Andy I don’t think many of our fans truly get it. Our current predicament, indeed our point deductions, are nothing to do with stadium revaluations or amortisation policies. Yes they have been bumps in the road, that the EFL (and Boro) have tried to make a lot higher than was needed. But neither have had any great affect on where we now find ourselves. Whichever amortisation policy we had used we would still have probably been overspending against P&S rules in 3 of the last 4 seasons. We would have still lost the same significant amount of cash over the same period of Morris’s tenure, despite him realising £40m of profit from a stadium revaluation. We would still be owing £60m plus to Creditors. We lost 9 points for excessive overspending, and another 12 points when our owner decided enough was enough. 

Note: This is not to say I support the EFL/Boro, especially so in respect of the vindictive way these spurious football claims have been handled in in the last few months. But imo we cannot argue too loudly that our -21 point deductions is unfair. We should rightly however be arguing that points deduction should be the end of the matter, and the EFL should be doing everything it can to ensure that an historic member club is allowed to rehabilitate and flourish, on a sentence served basis. The fact they haven’t will see the end of them hopefully.

 

[Ram-Alf]

4 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

It did come to court. The judge said that there was no case to answer by Rush, but Morris had failed to follow the correct procedure and had defamed Rush in the dismissal. The case was set aside to allow the unfair dismissal case to proceed. I believe that that case was settled out of court - it wasn't going to end well for Mel in light of the judges comments from the previous case.

A couple of million quid for being called a name, I'm now a multi millionaire in the name calling stakes

[Raminphilippines]

1 hour ago, Kathcairns said:

Well said, i don't suscribe to sky sport, my only interest in football is the rams and england occasionally. If we go under i will be finished with football.

When people ask me if I am a Football supporter? I always have replied "No, I am a Derby supporter, I follow Derby and have no interest in watching any other team." 

[curb]

39 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

You must be new around here ?

 

Odd isn't it? I'll always follow my beloved Rams but I don't even watch the Premier League games anymore. I don't much bother with the CL either save for the final stages and even then, only if there's domestic interest. I remember religiously watching MOTD as a kid, even when Derby weren't involved. Not watched it years, though I do, I confess have other 'hobbies' these days. TBH, if this is the end of Derby County, and FWIW, I'm certain it's not, I'd walk away from the game and never give it a moment's thought.

Same

[AndyB]

6 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

With respect Andy I don’t think many of our fans truly get it. Our current predicament, indeed our point deductions, are nothing to do with stadium revaluations or amortisation policies. Yes they have been bumps in the road, that the EFL (and Boro) have tried to make a lot higher than was needed. But neither have had any great affect on where we now find ourselves. Whichever amortisation policy we had used we would still have probably been overspending against P&S rules in 3 of the last 4 seasons. We would have still lost the same significant amount of cash over the same period of Morris’s tenure, despite him realising £40m of profit from a stadium revaluation. We would still be owing £60m plus to Creditors. We lost 9 points for excessive overspending, and another 12 points when our owner decided enough was enough. 

Note: This is not to say I support the EFL/Boro, especially so in respect of the vindictive way these spurious football claims have been handled in in the last few months. But imo we cannot argue too loudly that our -21 point deductions is unfair. We should rightly however be arguing that points deduction should be the end of the matter, and the EFL should be doing everything it can to ensure that an historic member club is allowed to rehabilitate and flourish, on a sentence served basis. The fact they haven’t will see the end of them hopefully.

 

I think the issue with the amortisation is that the EFL didn’t object until it was too late for Derby to reduce spending. I believe Mel Morris always intended to stay within P&S rules but go as close as possible to maximise our chances of promotion. If the amortisation had been flagged and changed at the time I think he would have reduced spending to stay within P&S. Then we wouldn’t be where we are now. This is a fault with the EFL.

There are many many more faults with Mel Morris’ decisions!

[RadioactiveWaste]

5 minutes ago, AndyB said:

I think the issue with the amortisation is that the EFL didn’t object until it was too late for Derby to reduce spending. I believe Mel Morris always intended to stay within P&S rules but go as close as possible to maximise our chances of promotion. If the amortisation had been flagged and changed at the time I think he would have reduced spending to stay within P&S. Then we wouldn’t be where we are now. This is a fault with the EFL.

There are many many more faults with Mel Morris’ decisions!

This is one of the mitigation factors ignored by those who prefer a Derby cheated systemically for years and must he made an example of narrative, which unfortunately are someone claiming £45m in damages and the governing body.

 

 

[Alty_Ram]

49 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Odd isn't it? I'll always follow my beloved Rams but I don't even watch the Premier League games anymore. I don't much bother with the CL either save for the final stages and even then, only if there's domestic interest. I remember religiously watching MOTD as a kid, even when Derby weren't involved. Not watched it years, though I do, I confess have other 'hobbies' these days. TBH, if this is the end of Derby County, and FWIW, I'm certain it's not, I'd walk away from the game and never give it a moment's thought.

I'm similar in that these days we seem so remote from all that stuff that it almost feels like another sport - I used to watch PL games a lot when we had been there recently but its less and less these days. We seem to have been out of the top flight for an age and I'm getting out of touch with most of the players names and faces. I reckon I might struggle a bit with a pub quiz picture round on Premier League players.

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

I'm similar in that these days we seem so remote from all that stuff that it almost feels like another sport - I used to watch PL games a lot when we had been there recently but its less and less these days. We seem to have been out of the top flight for an age and I'm getting out of touch with most of the players names and faces. I reckon I might struggle a bit with a pub quiz picture round on Premier League players.

Yes so will I, As they spend most of the time holding their faces when on the ground after being tackled, Just watching Liverpool Vs Cardif on ITV Sport, Liverpool player gets touched on the neck, Straight away falls down and both hands on his face

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

I'm similar in that these days we seem so remote from all that stuff that it almost feels like another sport - I used to watch PL games a lot when we had been there recently but its less and less these days. We seem to have been out of the top flight for an age and I'm getting out of touch with most of the players names and faces. I reckon I might struggle a bit with a pub quiz picture round on Premier League players.

It's become an ugly caricature of itself for me, a Spitting Image puppet version of the game. When a player earning over £300k a week downs tools because his employer neglected to buy him a birthday cake, that's when I start edging towards the door. I sometimes wonder whether I'm even that fussed about Derby getting promoted. In some ways, I think the Championship is one of, if not the best league on the planet. The run up to and the play-offs themselves offer far more drama and excitement than anything the Premier League can offer, least to my eyes.

Edited February 6, 2022 by 86 Hair Islands
typo

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, Gritstone Ram said:

If it is possible for Middle Borough and Wycombe to take on Morris then if they turn down the opportunity then the EFL should be looking at their claims and asking why they don’t want to go to court.

Sorry, but since MM made this magnanimous gesture made me wonder.

If MM is happy to do that why wait until the High Court is brought into the equation,he could have offered that weeks ago, i see this as just a distraction technique., perhaps just perhaps there is something else hiding which we are not aware of.

Gibson openly called MM  a cheat, no response of a denial of any sort.

Maguire revealed in a podcast that MM had "hidden" player wages/transfers in the accounts, yes i know Maguire is not everyones cup of tea but for him to publicly say that it must be true otherwise MM's legal team would have been issuing writs like confetti against him. But no,nothing whatsoever denying it.

According to the EFL TRACKER we still have outstanding accounts to be submitted.

If it goes to the High Court it will be against the club and not MM as an individual. A judge will not just give a decision on hearsay he will order that the relevant accounts are scrutinised and then give a verdict.

OF course i am not implying or suggesting in any way that the accounts are not in full financial order. 

[Foreveram]

1 hour ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Where there's money there will be "unsulliedness"(have i just made a word up?)George Jobey 1929, We were paying players more at the 1946 FA Cup final, It wouldn't surprise me that Steve Bloomer was well looked after by those that ran the club.

Money breads power, Power brings Narcissism, Narcissism brings dislike, Dislike brings downfall...eventually

Brown paper bags were very popular back in the day.

[i-Ram]

19 minutes ago, AndyB said:

I think the issue with the amortisation is that the EFL didn’t object until it was too late for Derby to reduce spending. I believe Mel Morris always intended to stay within P&S rules but go as close as possible to maximise our chances of promotion. If the amortisation had been flagged and changed at the time I think he would have reduced spending to stay within P&S. Then we wouldn’t be where we are now. This is a fault with the EFL.

There are many many more faults with Mel Morris’ decisions!

You can’t put a handbrake on spending just like that Andy. Footballers contracts just cannot be terminated. Morris was still going mad in 2019 paying stupid fees and wages for the likes of Waghorn, Josefzoon and the left fullback who was so memorable I temporarily forget his name. He then commits us to £10m on Bielik. You are living in a different universe to me if you think Morris was reigning in expenditure when it was all too clear getting a bit sticky. He was actually dealing with a chancer called Samuelson to see if he could find a mug, any mug, who might have any reason to want to part with a lot of money for a debt ridden football club.

[PistoldPete]

34 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

With respect Andy I don’t think many of our fans truly get it. Our current predicament, indeed our point deductions, are nothing to do with stadium revaluations or amortisation policies. Yes they have been bumps in the road, that the EFL (and Boro) have tried to make a lot higher than was needed. But neither have had any great affect on where we now find ourselves. Whichever amortisation policy we had used we would still have probably been overspending against P&S rules in 3 of the last 4 seasons. We would have still lost the same significant amount of cash over the same period of Morris’s tenure, despite him realising £40m of profit from a stadium revaluation. We would still be owing £60m plus to Creditors. We lost 9 points for excessive overspending, and another 12 points when our owner decided enough was enough. 

Note: This is not to say I support the EFL/Boro, especially so in respect of the vindictive way these spurious football claims have been handled in in the last few months. But imo we cannot argue too loudly that our -21 point deductions is unfair. We should rightly however be arguing that points deduction should be the end of the matter, and the EFL should be doing everything it can to ensure that an historic member club is allowed to rehabilitate and flourish, on a sentence served basis. The fact they haven’t will see the end of them hopefully.

 

What none of us can possibly know is what impact the uncertainty the actions taken by Boro commencing in May 2019 and then by the Efl commencing in January 2020 has had on the club.

No investors like uncertainty which is why even now no bidder has gone unconditional. uncertainty caused by legal and regulatory issues which have dragged on and still ongoing is a major factor in why the club has not been sold.

the daily telegraph business section did a piece on this a few weeks ago.

[Gaspode]

5 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

It's become an ugly caricature of itself for me, a Spitting Image puppet version of the game. When a player earning over £300k a week downs tools because his employer neglected to buy him a birthday cake, that's when I start edging towards the door. I sometimes wonder whether I'm even that fussed about Derby getting promoted. In some ways, I think the Championship is one of, if not the best league on the planet. The run up to and the play-offs themselves offer far more drama and excitement than anything the Premier League can offer, least to my eyes.

I don't know if it's just that I'm getting older or if football has changed so much over the past few years, but there's such a huge gap between where we are and the top of the PL that I'm really not that fussed about getting promoted to the so called 'promised land'. As long as I can support my local team, see plenty of effort, a bit of skill and a few goals (preferably winning more games than we lose) then that will do for me - I'm not sure I even actually care that much about which league we're in....

[Carnero]

11 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Sorry, but since MM made this magnanimous gesture made me wonder.

If MM is happy to do that why wait until the High Court is brought into the equation,he could have offered that weeks ago

Until the EFL stated their final position ("football debt") he didn't need to, option A was to cram the claims down to a nominal amount (e.g. £1 each) as part of a restructuring plan.

Option A was finally ruled out by the EFL late last week, so Option B has been triggered.